GDT: Training Camp 2023

[Surf Nutz]

Who cares.

They aren't a tough team, they don't have an aggressive coach, their captain settles everything down even when it needs to be ramped up, they are weak along the wall and behind their net, they aren't mentally strong enough to hold leads.

Who cares if one guy punches helmets? This team is soft through and through. I like physicality as much as anyone, but keeping someone who just can't play is a problem. Nothing here will change until Blake, MacLellan and Kopitar are gone. The Kings are a soft touch who win games by outscoring their opponents, and they are easily figured out come playoff time. Lewis is the only new addition that addresses any if their actual weaknesses, and he is too old to make a difference.

Its going to be another up and down year - likely enough ups to make the playoffs, but with the added bonus of us looking forward to seeing a recent top forward pick traded for a goalie late in the year. The model here sucks Johnny, no tough guy is going to make a difference.

I agree with Utah, we need atough guy and it makes a difference.
Another punch to the head for Turcotte or anyone really?
Gotta disuade it.
Englund and Doty in 2 games have shown to be liabilities.
I keep em in every game to see if they figure it out by reg season.
But you gotta look for someone else.
Blake knows he needs cap space ASAP or at least by the deadline for a deterrent and another goalie depending on how the top 3 do.

 

[Bandit]

So because the nhl is stupid and makes finding information impossible, the kings just played the two games in Australia and should be flying back to LA in the next day or so? Is that right?

 

[BaileyFan]

The Kings were still the softest team in the league when they had Kurtis MacDermid on the roster. If you're wanting the Kings to be a generally tough to play against and physical team then you gotta wait until the next rebuild to see that.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Gee you mean he sucks? That’s weird.

Oh no, I already thought he sucked ass.

Turns out that was an insult to sucking asses

 

[KingsHockey24]

I agree with Utah, we need atough guy and it makes a difference.
Another punch to the head for Turcotte or anyone really?
Gotta disuade it.
Englund and Doty in 2 games have shown to be liabilities.
I keep em in every game to see if they figure it out by reg season.
But you gotta look for someone else.
Blake knows he needs cap space ASAP or at least by the deadline for a deterrent and another goalie depending on how the top 3 do.

Yup. We need Kyle Clifford.

He just ran the Sens goalie in the preseason game earlier today.

 

[Surf Nutz]

Yup. We need Kyle Clifford.

He just ran the Sens goalie in the preseason game earlier today.

I kunda laughed but after watching Englund and Doty get exposed definsively , Cliffy might be a waiver wire grab worth a shot.

Was not impressed with Lewis in game 1 in Koalaville.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

The Kings were still the softest team in the league when they had Kurtis MacDermid on the roster. If you're wanting the Kings to be a generally tough to play against and physical team then you gotta wait until the next rebuild to see that.

Exactly. The Kings are soft and unphysical across the board. Changing that identity would not only require a near total overhaul of the roster, but a big culture change as well.

This is the team Blake wants to dress. You can make the argument that it’s a bad strategy (and you’d be right) but it’s still the reality. Dressing a single useless plug like Englund or Doty is not going to change that by some magical transitive property of toughness.

 

[tny760]

engaging this bad faith "toughness" argument is so f***in tired

he's been told all this over and over, it's just whatever the flavor of the week is needs to be in the lineup

 

[Surf Nutz]

Two different subjects:

1, Team toughness
2. Having a one guy deterrent to answer the bell if someone gets run.

 

[kinghock]

Exactly. The Kings are soft and unphysical across the board. Changing that identity would not only require a near total overhaul of the roster, but a big culture change as well.

This is the team Blake wants to dress. You can make the argument that it’s a bad strategy (and you’d be right) but it’s still the reality. Dressing a single useless plug like Englund or Doty is not going to change that by some magical transitive property of toughness.

I believe that Englund was not allowed to play his physical style of game by NHL on this trip, because it was hockey promotion for Australians.
I think he will be playing different game from now on.

 

[kingsfan28]

Goalie continue to be an odd group.

 

[All The Kings Men]

So because the nhl is stupid and makes finding information impossible, the kings just played the two games in Australia and should be flying back to LA in the next day or so? Is that right?

Why should the Kings travel plans be made public?

 

[Bandit]

Why should the Kings travel plans be made public?

Stop being obtuse. I didn’t say I wanted the tail number of their airplane. Also feel free to stop acting like “the kings are flying home tonight after the game” or “they’re going to spend the night here and fly home tomorrow” isn’t information that has been shared since teams started traveling by plane.

 

[kingsfan28]

Why should the Kings travel plans be made public?

Stop being obtuse. I didn’t say I wanted the tail number of their airplane. Also feel free to stop acting like “the kings are flying home tonight after the game” or “they’re going to spend the night here and fly home tomorrow” isn’t information that has been shared since teams started traveling by plane.

Nick said they we flying home that night. The game ened at 4:45pm local time, which means they go wheels up around 11 pm AEST.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Exactly. The Kings are soft and unphysical across the board. Changing that identity would not only require a near total overhaul of the roster, but a big culture change as well.

This is the team Blake wants to dress. You can make the argument that it’s a bad strategy (and you’d be right) but it’s still the reality. Dressing a single useless plug like Englund or Doty is not going to change that by some magical transitive property of toughness.

I'm not convinced Englund is a tough guy either. Strikes me as someone that has to play that way in order to stick. Similar to whatever Andreoff was.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Englund can fight check out his hockeyfights card.

Kings were bullied more times last season then I have ever seen them bullied in 30 years because Lemieux was hurt and then traded. I have spoken to a few current NHL players and they both said without Pepe the Kings are soft and everyone knows it.

There is a reason TM played Doty twice and Blake signed Englund.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Englund can fight check out his hockeyfights card.

Kings were bullied more times last season then I have ever seen them bullied in 30 years because Lemieux was hurt and then traded. I have spoken to a few current NHL players and they both said without Pepe the Kings are soft and everyone knows it.

There is a reason TM played Doty twice and Blake signed Englund.

I can see it now, Englund plays 70 games.....fights 50 times, wins them all.....finishes a league low -150....but Utah is happy as a pig in shit...

 

[Lt Dan]

I can see it now, Englund plays 70 games.....fights 50 times, wins them all.....finishes a league low -150....but Utah is happy as a pig in shit...

 

[KingsFan7824]

Francois Allaire had a steller career as an NHL goalie. No wonder he was a great coach for that position.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

So Turcotte looked pretty damn good Saturday night.... And apparently Laferriere is continuing to impress and was potentially the best player on the ice last night.

I love Arty - And posted that whole paragraph last week about how I think he's going to explode.... And I still hope he does!!! But unfortunately Kaliyev hasn't looked great at all and still seems like the same player he was last year. Obviously small sample size and he can still settle in and figure it out...

But some of the other options for that Dubois line are looking pretty intriguing right now.

Turcotte looked too good to play 4th line center and with the Kings center depth he really has no shot to play center on one of the top 3 lines.. So why not put him on Dubois' wing and see what happens?

Laferriere also looks like he could be the real deal. 42 points (and 21 goals) in 34 NCAA games last year is no joke. And the guy clearly has the skills to be a pretty perfect plug-in on that line.

 

[Schmooley]

So Turcotte looked pretty damn good Saturday night.... And apparently Laferriere is continuing to impress and was potentially the best player on the ice last night.

I love Arty - And posted that whole paragraph last week about how I think he's going to explode.... And I still hope he does!!! But unfortunately Kaliyev hasn't looked great at all and still seems like the same player he was last year. Obviously small sample size and he can still settle in and figure it out...

But some of the other options for that Dubois line are looking pretty intriguing right now.

Turcotte looked too good to play 4th line center and with the Kings center depth he really has no shot to play center on one of the top 3 lines.. So why not put him on Dubois' wing and see what happens?

Laferriere also looks like he could be the real deal. 42 points (and 21 goals) in 34 NCAA games last year is no joke. And the guy clearly has the skills to be a pretty perfect plug-in on that line.

Dubois-Kopitar-Kempe
Moore-Danault-Arvidsson
Fiala-Turcotte-Kaliyev
Grundstrom-Byfield-Laferriere
Lewis
Package Lizotte Copley and just about any forward not listed besides Pinelli for a goalie.
Only half joking

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

So Turcotte looked pretty damn good Saturday night.... And apparently Laferriere is continuing to impress and was potentially the best player on the ice last night.

I love Arty - And posted that whole paragraph last week about how I think he's going to explode.... And I still hope he does!!! But unfortunately Kaliyev hasn't looked great at all and still seems like the same player he was last year. Obviously small sample size and he can still settle in and figure it out...

But some of the other options for that Dubois line are looking pretty intriguing right now.

Turcotte looked too good to play 4th line center and with the Kings center depth he really has no shot to play center on one of the top 3 lines.. So why not put him on Dubois' wing and see what happens?

Laferriere also looks like he could be the real deal. 42 points (and 21 goals) in 34 NCAA games last year is no joke. And the guy clearly has the skills to be a pretty perfect plug-in on that line.

A maaaaajor issue over the last three years

A lot of these guys look like the same player they were when they were drafted

The only exceptions are guys who ARENT in LA

Kaliyev--frozen in time. Madden--frozen in time. Bjornfot, Moverare, Fagemo, and many many more.

Laferriere and Pinelli both show explosive growth--well, they weren't in LA, go figure. Jamsen grows a little each year.

I'm exempting the injury guys like Thomas, Vilardi, etc.

This is why my hypothesis is LA's drafting is okay, the development and deployment is dog shit.

1-3 years after being drafted, fine. Slow growth, maybe it's just a coincidence. But once we start getting into years 3-4....there need to be a LOT of guys taking a step this year, especially those who were dumped into the AHL in the name of development. Like yes, many prospects just don't make it--but when ALL of them are suffering the same fates...

And as much as I love and defend Turcotte, even he's the same player he was when he was drafted. He was ALWAYS pro-ready game, just upside was the question, and there's no way we trust this org to bring that out of blue chippers.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

A maaaaajor issue over the last three years

A lot of these guys look like the same player they were when they were drafted

The only exceptions are guys who ARENT in LA

Kaliyev--frozen in time. Madden--frozen in time. Bjornfot, Moverare, Fagemo, and many many more.

Laferriere and Pinelli both show explosive growth--well, they weren't in LA, go figure. Jamsen grows a little each year.

I'm exempting the injury guys like Thomas, Vilardi, etc.

This is why my hypothesis is LA's drafting is okay, the development and deployment is dog shit.

1-3 years after being drafted, fine. Slow growth, maybe it's just a coincidence. But once we start getting into years 3-4....there need to be a LOT of guys taking a step this year, especially those who were dumped into the AHL in the name of development. Like yes, many prospects just don't make it--but when ALL of them are suffering the same fates...

And as much as I love and defend Turcotte, even he's the same player he was when he was drafted. He was ALWAYS pro-ready game, just upside was the question, and there's no way we trust this org to bring that out of blue chippers.

A lot of really good points here.... It really does seem like once players get to LA the growth and development just completely stops.

Hopefully some of it is just coincidence / slow growth but the examples are just piling up at this point.

Even looking at a guy like Laferriere - who looks amazing right now and looks like he's taken some big steps forward to actually ELEVATE his status compared to where he was drafted..... So far, his development has happened AWAY from the Kings.

I'd say it's puzzling......... But is it???? I mean look at our development staff. Stoll, Greene, O'Donnell, Nate Thompson...... Don't get me wrong I love those guys and they were solid enough players for us when they played but are they REALLY who we want in charge of developing high tier NHL talent??? Those guys weren't even high end NHLers in their prime... How are they supposed to teach other players how to be high end / high skill talents when that was never their game to begin with???

Kings should do a complete purge/overhaul of their development staff - ESPECIALLY if we don't see big steps forward from at least a few young players this year.

 

[Fishhead]

A maaaaajor issue over the last three years

A lot of these guys look like the same player they were when they were drafted

The only exceptions are guys who ARENT in LA

Kaliyev--frozen in time. Madden--frozen in time. Bjornfot, Moverare, Fagemo, and many many more.

Laferriere and Pinelli both show explosive growth--well, they weren't in LA, go figure. Jamsen grows a little each year.

I'm exempting the injury guys like Thomas, Vilardi, etc.

This is why my hypothesis is LA's drafting is okay, the development and deployment is dog shit.

1-3 years after being drafted, fine. Slow growth, maybe it's just a coincidence. But once we start getting into years 3-4....there need to be a LOT of guys taking a step this year, especially those who were dumped into the AHL in the name of development. Like yes, many prospects just don't make it--but when ALL of them are suffering the same fates...

And as much as I love and defend Turcotte, even he's the same player he was when he was drafted. He was ALWAYS pro-ready game, just upside was the question, and there's no way we trust this org to bring that out of blue chippers.

Anderson? He was fast. Vilardi had that injury, but after that he was great in his 3rd year. Look what they developed Durzi into in 3 years, he was dog shit. We will see with Clarke.

I get your point, the Kings are much better at developing middling guys than the really top end ones, but lets not pretend this doesn’t plague every other organization. The reason it only looks like guys who arent in LA succeed is because we dont know their systems enough and only see the guys that do develop. We dont notice their many failures. That, I think, leads to our frustrations because it seems that other teams arent having the same issues when they actually do, we just dont see them.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Anderson? He was fast. Vilardi had that injury, but after that he was great in his 3rd year. Look what they developed Durzi into in 3 years, he was dog shit. We will see with Clarke.

I get your point, the Kings are much better at developing middling guys than the really top end ones, but lets not pretend this doesn’t plague every other organization. The reason it only looks like guys who arent in LA succeed is because we dont know their systems enough and only see the guys that do develop. We dont notice their many failures. That, I think, leads to our frustrations because it seems that other teams arent having the same issues when they actually do, we just dont see them.

Anderson did most of his development in two years of college. Vilardi did explode. Durzi only made it out of sheer luck due to losing two roster's worth of dmen to injury--was our 10th dman and got by on moxie and individualism not technical skill and he's still absolutely lost on defense

I get your point that if we audit other organizations we will see some things too but I think above is a pretty specific complaint about developing IN LA vs. away from LA

Ive said before if some of them bust it is what it is...but when ALL of them are busting? Look at the system and an entire decade of 1st and 2nd round picks. I blame it on development. But if you want to blame it instead on drafting then why the hell are these people still employed? I think it's more to do with LA being smug and trying to re-invent the wheel with development. We're now running these guys into waiver exemption before even seeing what they've got and if none of them have 'it' well that's an admission of bad development.