GDT: Training Camp 2023

[DoktorJeep]

It’s not doom and gloom. It’s what’s the best that can happen given a championship isn’t likely. Sure if multiple things go right and they get a bunch of luck, they could make a deep run. But the best realistic scenario is a one year wonder.

With Montreal, Dallas and Florida losing in the finals the past few years, you can see the Kings fitting into that group. But expecting them to win a lot this year and keep that up for a couple years is unlikely. They’d be the first team in the cap era to get older and luckier and better all at the same time. What kind of plan is that?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It’s not doom and gloom. It’s what’s the best that can happen given a championship isn’t likely. Sure if multiple things go right and they get a bunch of luck, they could make a deep run. But the best realistic scenario is a one year wonder.

With Montreal, Dallas and Florida losing in the finals the past few years, you can see the Kings fitting into that group. But expecting them to win a lot this year and keep that up for a couple years is unlikely. They’d be the first team in the cap era to get older and luckier and better all at the same time. What kind of plan is that?

I can see the Kings mimicking current Dallas very well.

The difference is Dallas lets their kids assume the key roles.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

I can see the Kings mimicking current Dallas very well.

The difference is Dallas lets their kids assume the key roles.

Yeah exactly, that's really what it comes down to. Young talent. That's what is going to make or break any team coming out of a re-tool.

Don't get me wrong there's valid concerns with the way management, coaching, and development has treated young talent.

But the fact of the matter is that there's 3 pretty significant roster spots up for grabs for players that are 22 years old and younger.

Byfield playing on the 1st line with excellent linemates.
Kaliyev (or some other young player like Turcotte or Laferriere) getting a shot to play with high end players in Fiala and Dubois.
Clarke or Spence getting a powerplay role and (hopefully) consistent NHL ice time.

At least 1 or 2 of these young players HAVE to step up and take that next step and prove they can excel in those key roles. If these guys are really that good, they'll prove it and force their way up the lineup.

If Clarke is really 'Drew Doughty 2.0' - He'll be so good they can't fathom starting/keeping him in the AHL. If Kaliyev is really the future 40 goal scorer he was drafted to be - He'll have no problem producing with an excellent play driver like Fiala and a very good center like Dubois.

I understand why people have their doubts. But at the end of the day it doesn't really matter whether we 'believe' in these kids or not. It's up to them to sack up and start producing.

 

[bland]

I can see the Kings mimicking current Dallas very well.

The difference is Dallas lets their kids assume the key roles.

Seeing as how our #1C and #1D were gassed by the end of Game 1 in the first round (snd absolutely owned by Edmonton in.the nect 5 games), I would suggest anyone thinking that they will have the stamina for a long run is being maybe a tad optimistic.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

I think looking at a guy like Roope Hintz is an interesting comparable for some of our young guys.

D+1 (19 years old): Liiga. Solid numbers but nothing crazy.
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]44 games[/TD]
[TD]19 goals[/TD]
[TD]11 assists[/TD]
[TD]30 points[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

D+2 (20 years old): AHL. Again, good/solid numbers but nothing that screams 'star player in the making - this guy is going to make $8+ million one day'.
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]70 games[/TD]
[TD]20 goals[/TD]
[TD]15 assists[/TD]
[TD]35 points[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

D+3 (21 years old): NHL/AHL. Point per game in the AHL. Decent numbers in the NHL. Pretty sure he was playing 3rd line. (Below are NHL numbers)
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]58 games[/TD]
[TD]9 goals[/TD]
[TD]13 assists[/TD]
[TD]22 points[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

D+4 (22 years old): NHL regular. Good numbers, almost hits 20 goals. About 0.5 PPG. (Pretty sure he was still a 3rd line center here)
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]60 games[/TD]
[TD]19 goals[/TD]
[TD]14 assists[/TD]
[TD]33 points[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

D+5 (23 years old): Breakout year. Point/game player. Moves his way up the lineup and becomes a 2nd line center.
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]41 games[/TD]
[TD]15 goals[/TD]
[TD]28 assists[/TD]
[TD]43 points[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

And obviously now he's a star 1C on a really good team. But he really didn't become a top 6 center until his D+5 year. Of course we know Hintz was a 2nd round pick and Byfield was drafted 2nd overall but what matters more? Draft position or end result? I think we can all agree if Byfield turned out to be a similar type of player as Roope Hintz, that would be pretty solid.

Byfield is going into his D+4 year (Reminder: Byfield was one of the youngest players in his draft - When Hintz was the same age Byfield was last year he was still just a 0.5 points per game player in the AHL) - So no doubt, this is a big one for him. He's got to show us more - particularly in terms of production. But my point is, sometimes these things take time (regardless of draft position) and in MOST cases, players need to work their way up the lineup by proving they're really f**king good. To me, the main difference between Kings young talent and Stars young talent could very well just be a matter of a couple years - Resulting in a situation where guys like Byfield, Kaliyev, etc just haven't taken that next step yet. But they're young enough to the point where they absolutely still can either this year or even next. Let's hope they do because our future very much depends on it.

 

[bland]

Yeah exactly, that's really what it comes down to. Young talent. That's what is going to make or break any team coming out of a re-tool.

Don't get me wrong there's valid concerns with the way management, coaching, and development has treated young talent.

But the fact of the matter is that there's 3 pretty significant roster spots up for grabs for players that are 22 years old and younger.

Byfield playing on the 1st line with excellent linemates.
Kaliyev (or some other young player like Turcotte or Laferriere) getting a shot to play with high end players in Fiala and Dubois.
Clarke or Spence getting a powerplay role and (hopefully) consistent NHL ice time.

At least 1 or 2 of these young players HAVE to step up and take that next step and prove they can excel in those key roles. If these guys are really that good, they'll prove it and force their way up the lineup.

If Clarke is really 'Drew Doughty 2.0' - He'll be so good they can't fathom starting/keeping him in the AHL. If Kaliyev is really the future 40 goal scorer he was drafted to be - He'll have no problem producing with an excellent play driver like Fiala and a very good center like Dubois.

I understand why people have their doubts. But at the end of the day it doesn't really matter whether we 'believe' in these kids or not. It's up to them to sack up and start producing.

The issue with the kids is that expecting them to produce on a contender right away is exactly what has befallen the Rangers. They will need time, on a sliding scale from individual to individual, to get acclimated and learn on.the job before you can rightfully expect production.

That is what the last few years SHOULD have been allotted, but instead management chose to delay that process either by excessive AHL time or asking them to play in unfamiliar roles. Its no surprise why our top picks have struggled, and honestly, the question is now more "if" than "when" they arrive due to such ham-fisted measures.

The lack of cost-controlled production from players on their ELCs and the reliance on faded leaders who haven't really shown much of late is what will hurt the Kings. The middle of the lineup is top notch, the top and bottom are problematic.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

The issue with the kids is that expecting them to produce on a contender right away is exactly what has befallen the Rangers. They will need time, on a sliding scale from individual to individual, to get acclimated and learn on.the job before you can rightfully expect production.

That is what the last few years SHOULD have been allotted, but instead management chose to delay that process either by excessive AHL time or asking them to play in unfamiliar roles. Its no surprise why our top picks have struggled, and honestly, the question is now more "if" than "when" they arrive due to such ham-fisted measures.

The lack of cost-controlled production from players on their ELCs and the reliance on faded leaders who haven't really shown much of late is what will hurt the Kings. The middle of the lineup is top notch, the top and bottom are problematic.

You definitely could be right. We could end up being the NYR of the west coast and that would suck pretty hard.

 

[Steve Zissou]

WNP tossed Harkins on waivers and he was scooped up PIT.

Watching PIT against DET right now and he had a really good assist on the 1st goal.

Wish we would of picked him up to C our 4th line. The past 2 playoffs series have really exposed Lizzotte.

VGK had those 4 lines always rolling and Roy was a big part of that on the 4th.

Harkins has really good size. Def. willing to throw the body, but can also drive the play and has a good shot.

 

[Bandit]

I think Roy has room to grow still into his game. If the Kings could move Doughty that’d be better imo

I don’t necessarily disagree but this roster is the way it is and it’s in cap hell because Blake thought kissing Kopitar and Doughty’s asses was more important than building a well constructed team. I’d be stunned if he’s traded.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think looking at a guy like Roope Hintz is an interesting comparable for some of our young guys.

D+1 (19 years old): Liiga. Solid numbers but nothing crazy.
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]44 games[/TD]
[TD]19 goals[/TD]
[TD]11 assists[/TD]
[TD]30 points[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

D+2 (20 years old): AHL. Again, good/solid numbers but nothing that screams 'star player in the making - this guy is going to make $8+ million one day'.
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]70 games[/TD]
[TD]20 goals[/TD]
[TD]15 assists[/TD]
[TD]35 points[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

D+3 (21 years old): NHL/AHL. Point per game in the AHL. Decent numbers in the NHL. Pretty sure he was playing 3rd line. (Below are NHL numbers)
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]58 games[/TD]
[TD]9 goals[/TD]
[TD]13 assists[/TD]
[TD]22 points[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

D+4 (22 years old): NHL regular. Good numbers, almost hits 20 goals. About 0.5 PPG. (Pretty sure he was still a 3rd line center here)
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]60 games[/TD]
[TD]19 goals[/TD]
[TD]14 assists[/TD]
[TD]33 points[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

D+5 (23 years old): Breakout year. Point/game player. Moves his way up the lineup and becomes a 2nd line center.
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]41 games[/TD]
[TD]15 goals[/TD]
[TD]28 assists[/TD]
[TD]43 points[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

And obviously now he's a star 1C on a really good team. But he really didn't become a top 6 center until his D+5 year. Of course we know Hintz was a 2nd round pick and Byfield was drafted 2nd overall but what matters more? Draft position or end result? I think we can all agree if Byfield turned out to be a similar type of player as Roope Hintz, that would be pretty solid.

Byfield is going into his D+4 year (Reminder: Byfield was one of the youngest players in his draft - When Hintz was the same age Byfield was last year he was still just a 0.5 points per game player in the AHL) - So no doubt, this is a big one for him. He's got to show us more - particularly in terms of production. But my point is, sometimes these things take time (regardless of draft position) and in MOST cases, players need to work their way up the lineup by proving they're really f**king good. To me, the main difference between Kings young talent and Stars young talent could very well just be a matter of a couple years - Resulting in a situation where guys like Byfield, Kaliyev, etc just haven't taken that next step yet. But they're young enough to the point where they absolutely still can either this year or even next. Let's hope they do because our future very much depends on it.

The major difference isn't the development so much as it is a team's willingness to adjust a role for the kid. Dallas has had NO issue bringing guys 'without pedigree', like Benn, Klingberg, and Robertson, even Hintz, into roles they were suited for with no 'oh you'd better learn to check' artificial glass ceiling. Kings are busy one-size fitting everyone. Klingberg would have been on the Durzi development path--sorry kid, when 10 guys get hurt, you'll get your shot. Hintz put up Fagemo #s--so going by the Kings path, Hintz just got waived. Good news Roope, you're back on Dallas

 

[SimpleJack]

Idk IMO a lot of you guys are overreacting(says the outsider who has no idea what he’s talking about…lol…but hear me out…). If Byfield and Clarke or even AK/Turcotte break out this season some of the doubters here will be feeling silly. There’s a very nice balance of highly touted young players with top end potential alongside already established top end talent in its prime(PLD, Kempe, Fiala) plus one of the better “3rd” lines in the league now with Moore/Danault/Arvidsson, and on top of it all you STILL have the legends Kopitar/Doughty to lead the way. Plus outstanding depth beyond that throughout all 4 lines and all 3 Dpairs.

I really think this is the year with the collection of youth stepping up into their roles(both at forward and on D) and PLD’s addiction creating a chain reaction of matchup-nightmare caliber depth down the middle that the Kings go from “knocking on the door” to “one of the top contenders”. If they happen to get stellar goaltending it might put them over the top in a potential SCF. Cuz I expect everything else to be top notch.

 

[kilowatt]

I think looking at a guy like Roope Hintz is an interesting comparable for some of our young guys.

D+1 (19 years old): Liiga. Solid numbers but nothing crazy.
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]44 games[/TD]
[TD]19 goals[/TD]
[TD]11 assists[/TD]
[TD]30 points[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

D+2 (20 years old): AHL. Again, good/solid numbers but nothing that screams 'star player in the making - this guy is going to make $8+ million one day'.
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]70 games[/TD]
[TD]20 goals[/TD]
[TD]15 assists[/TD]
[TD]35 points[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

D+3 (21 years old): NHL/AHL. Point per game in the AHL. Decent numbers in the NHL. Pretty sure he was playing 3rd line. (Below are NHL numbers)
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]58 games[/TD]
[TD]9 goals[/TD]
[TD]13 assists[/TD]
[TD]22 points[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

D+4 (22 years old): NHL regular. Good numbers, almost hits 20 goals. About 0.5 PPG. (Pretty sure he was still a 3rd line center here)
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]60 games[/TD]
[TD]19 goals[/TD]
[TD]14 assists[/TD]
[TD]33 points[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

D+5 (23 years old): Breakout year. Point/game player. Moves his way up the lineup and becomes a 2nd line center.
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]41 games[/TD]
[TD]15 goals[/TD]
[TD]28 assists[/TD]
[TD]43 points[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

And obviously now he's a star 1C on a really good team. But he really didn't become a top 6 center until his D+5 year. Of course we know Hintz was a 2nd round pick and Byfield was drafted 2nd overall but what matters more? Draft position or end result? I think we can all agree if Byfield turned out to be a similar type of player as Roope Hintz, that would be pretty solid.

Byfield is going into his D+4 year (Reminder: Byfield was one of the youngest players in his draft - When Hintz was the same age Byfield was last year he was still just a 0.5 points per game player in the AHL) - So no doubt, this is a big one for him. He's got to show us more - particularly in terms of production. But my point is, sometimes these things take time (regardless of draft position) and in MOST cases, players need to work their way up the lineup by proving they're really f**king good. To me, the main difference between Kings young talent and Stars young talent could very well just be a matter of a couple years - Resulting in a situation where guys like Byfield, Kaliyev, etc just haven't taken that next step yet. But they're young enough to the point where they absolutely still can either this year or even next. Let's hope they do because our future very much depends on it.

I don’t think anyone is saying there’s no way that Byfield or any of our other prospects can’t break out and live up to our potential, much in the same way that anyone drafted after the second round could break out and exceed their potential. In fact, I’d really love to be proven wrong on my gut feeling with guys like Byfield and Kaliyev.

Byfield could have a Tage Thompson turnaround. Kaliyev could turn into Tyler Toffoli. Turcotte could turn into Jonathan Toews. But at this point, those outcomes are such a low probability that it’s just naive to expect anything like it.

Byfield might top out at 40 points. Kaliyev might never put it together. Turcotte might never play another NHL game for LA. These are more realistic than the last group of outcomes, and even that guess for Byfield is optimistic.

The only drafted players that have showed elite skill post-draft for LA are Vilardi and Clarke, in my opinion.

 

[deaderhead28]

Behind The Glass: Los Angeles Kings Training Camp Episode 1

 

[BaileyFan]

Right now I think the odds of Roy being retained are fairly low, based on the salary he will command. He should be asking for at least 5, which would price him out for the Kings based on needs.

I know the narrative is that the Kings would rather retain guys like RV and Roy and not play the youth, but I would be shocked if that happened. They would basically have to sign for minimal raises, which they won't (and shouldn't) as this will be their last big contracts. Because they made the Fiala and PLD moves almost all decisions going forward will be cap driven.

I just don't see how you're so confident saying that. I would've never expected Blake to extend Moore less than halfway through a regression year with a huge logjam of winger prospects coming up. I didn't think he would pay a premium to gain only partial cap relief for Petersen only to turn around and give all of it right back to Gavrikov. And I didn't think he would completely shut Byfield out of the top 6 C slot by trading for PLD and extending Kopi to age 38 before the season even started.

After all that, it's hard to imagine that Blake won't do the same thing he's done the past year and a half which is make the decision that's best for the team 5 minutes from now with no consideration to anything beyond that and pick up the pieces later.

 

[Sol]

I don’t think anyone is saying there’s no way that Byfield or any of our other prospects can’t break out and live up to our potential, much in the same way that anyone drafted after the second round could break out and exceed their potential. In fact, I’d really love to be proven wrong on my gut feeling with guys like Byfield and Kaliyev.

Byfield could have a Tage Thompson turnaround. Kaliyev could turn into Tyler Toffoli. Turcotte could turn into Jonathan Toews. But at this point, those outcomes are such a low probability that it’s just naive to expect anything like it.

Byfield might top out at 40 points. Kaliyev might never put it together. Turcotte might never play another NHL game for LA. These are more realistic than the last group of outcomes, and even that guess for Byfield is optimistic.

The only drafted players that have showed elite skill post-draft for LA are Vilardi and Clarke, in my opinion.

I seriously wonder if people don’t realize this is where the big area of concern for Byfield is. I don’t think one person would have an issue giving byfield time if there was elite skill we were seeing that just needed time to honed.

I don’t know why anyone would do mental gymnastics and go back to Roope Hintz and again, act like it’s normal for a nobody at 23 to turn into a somebody. If you’re going to convince someone that X needs more time to cook then you need to have something to build that statement around. Is there something great in his game that needs to be primed and then he will shoot out of a cannon? How can anyone honestly say that?


Shits crazy to me. I know I’ve said this many times but if you want to tell me byfield needs time then just answer this question before you make that claim. Would any one of you guys know Byfield was a second overall pick by watching him play?

 

[KingsHockey24]

Byfield for Askarov and call it a day.

 

[killermiller]

Byfield hasn't even hit 100 regular season games yet, has come back from injury/ severe illness that made him lose a stupid amount of weight. Trained hard and put on the weight plus more muscle over the offseason and people are still eager to jump on him for a handful of preseason games when he's still getting back into it.

I understand the concerns, especially with Stutzle breaking out for the sens but let the guy play a whole season first before dumping on him this hard. I'm predicting he gets better as the season goes on as he gets his conditioning back. If by season end he doesn't end up around 15 to 20g, and around 50 points we can start having real doubts about his development.

 

[YP44]

Oh my.. someone got offended.
I didn't know you have an account here, Anze

But while you are here, let me explain something to you.

The NHL is a professional sports league where the target is to win the Stanley Cup every year.
We are all grateful what you have done for the organization to the point where you brought home 2 cups.
The issue people have here is what happened right after where you asked for a salary of a NHL top center but delivered shit while blocking salary to upgrade the team.
If by chance Drew is sitting beside you on that park bench, feeding ducks, tell him that he is far worse, not only copying the above issues but also cry to the management to give unreasonable contracts to your also useless buddies.
We fans would like not to have another season where playoff teams mop the floor with you.

Since we already figured out that the management is reckless and irresponsible, please do the right thing and become a full time duck feeder at the pond.
This takes the option away from the management to build a team around you with even older and worse players than you.

Appreciate you understanding and cooperation in that matter

"become a full time duck feeder" in what universe is current Kopitar not at worst a #2 on a legit contender. I am not living in the past, Kopitar is still a hell of a player that any team would welcome. Especially once his salary drops next year (even more as a % of the cap).
Kopitar made bank, deserved it, and performed up to his contract at least the first few season. Lindholm is about to get over $9M well into his 30's. Covid and flat cap made Kopitar's deal look worse near the end, but not sure how you fault team or player for that.

Kopitar is going to hit 1,200 points this year...just amazing.

I don't think there's any way Spence or Clarke could be overall as effective of a defenseman as Matt Roy this season.

Arvidsson would make more sense to move IMO.

I agree, but you already waived Fagemo, and moving Roy would allow both Spence and Clarke to play. Also would have been selling high on roy.

 

[kilowatt]

Byfield hasn't even hit 100 regular season games yet, has come back from injury/ severe illness that made him lose a stupid amount of weight. Trained hard and put on the weight plus more muscle over the offseason and people are still eager to jump on him for a handful of preseason games when he's still getting back into it.

I understand the concerns, especially with Stutzle breaking out for the sens but let the guy play a whole season first before dumping on him this hard. I'm predicting he gets better as the season goes on as he gets his conditioning back. If by season end he doesn't end up around 15 to 20g, and around 50 points we can start having real doubts about his development.

Oh come on, he’s at 99 games played.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

I don’t know why anyone would do mental gymnastics and go back to Roope Hintz and again, act like it’s normal for a nobody at 23 to turn into a somebody.

Wasn't the point I was making and Hintz didn't go from nobody to somebody at 23 - He just broke out at 23 - Which is something we see quite a lot in the NHL. Troy Terry, Mika Zbanejad, Tage Thompson, Hintz.... There's a decent list just off the top of my head in 5 seconds. There's plenty of players who don't turn into really good / even elite NHL players until 22/23/24 years old.

Byfield JUST turned 21 years old.

And there's been other top 5 picks that have taken a couple seasons to really hit their stride. It's really not very out of the ordinary and that's especially the case historically with players with more size - like Quinton Byfield.

I think the big difference is that you and some others would claim that Byfield 'hasn't shown us anything'. To which I would disagree. It's been rarer than we'd like... But we have seen flashes from Byfield that could suggest there could be a pretty damn good player there. A between the legs goal and a couple of other really nice goals in the AHL, a couple of really nice assists at the NHL including one that left Kopitar himself with his jaw on the floor - Seriously you can go back and watch the video of that one touch slot pass from last season and Kopitar's reaction says "WOW, what a f**king pass" in disbelief.

Obviously we have to see those plays happening more consistently (and at the NHL level in terms of goal scoring).... That's why this year is pretty crucial for him. He's had some bad luck on his development path but has the skill and tools to be a great player - hopefully he puts it all together.

I guess all I'm asking is for people to give the guy until the end of this season before they write him off.

The major difference isn't the development so much as it is a team's willingness to adjust a role for the kid. Dallas has had NO issue bringing guys 'without pedigree', like Benn, Klingberg, and Robertson, even Hintz, into roles they were suited for with no 'oh you'd better learn to check' artificial glass ceiling. Kings are busy one-size fitting everyone. Klingberg would have been on the Durzi development path--sorry kid, when 10 guys get hurt, you'll get your shot. Hintz put up Fagemo #s--so going by the Kings path, Hintz just got waived. Good news Roope, you're back on Dallas

Yeah, it's a solid point. Especially in terms of the whole "everyone has to be a checking defensive forward first or they're benched/sent down" mentality.

But at least now the Kings seem to be offering fairly significant roles to Byfield, Kaliyev, and one of Spence/Clarke - Up to them to take advantage.

 

[BringTheReign]

I’ve brought up before that the Dallas model is what we should be targeting, and I agree with all the ways we diverged that were discussed above.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Dallas is way tougher than the Kings - Benn is the heart of the team and he's a bad ass nasty power forward. Mason Marchment is also very chippy.

They have a future Jonathan Quick also in Oettinger.

Also, three of their top six D are under 24.

 

[kingsboy11]

Well shit

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

Well shit

Way too much wtf.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

hahaha what the actual f***