GDT: Training Camp 2021: Everyone Else Too Lazy to Make a Thread

[Crease]

Barron is a kid who has a shot to come in and challenge in a number of ways.

He 100 percent was/is expected to push guys like Howden and Lemieux, and potentially even someone like Gauthier.

He's another one who might not ever consistently play above a bottom six role (though who knows), but brings value if he puts it all together. Because there's another example of not having to go out and find a piece elsewhere.

I didn't get a chance to see Barron in college but am tickled he's a Cornell alum (Go Big Red!). There have been a few of us who have come into the league in recent years and had success, including Scrivens, Greening, and Nash. Two questions on Barron: (1) who does he compare to today; and (2) who does he project to compare to in his prime.

 

[we want cup]

And that's something I personally wouldn't like. Kaapo is not a power forward (whatever that may be these days) or a room maker. We'll see but I'd expect the line to have more success by having Panarin & Kakko play off each other rather than Strome & Panarin with Kaapo playing 3rd string.

I seem to remember strength and skill in tight spaces being some of the big selling points. Not every “power forward” is Lucic or Ovechkin.

 

[Edge]

The only time Miller looks green is when he’s defending the cycle down low. He can get lost. I expect that to continue as a rookie as he learns but he’s probably one of the best pure athletes here. His skating is elite. His size. His gaps are ridiculous just ridiculous. If he’s keeping it simple he’s probably looking like a total stud to everyone. Once he’s in the ozone he can rip the puck with a wrister which is so valuable now.

Like I said the word is if he could have they would have played him in the play in series so really had little doubt he’d make the team.

some guys are just ready. They don’t need the A. Some guys only go to the A because it’s 50/50 and there’s more ice time down there for them. Some guys need to catch up to the speed.

but some guys just can go right in especially if their competitors include jack johnson and Tony Bitetto

I will say that I noticed a delay in reading plays against competition that committed to a fast, north-south style that requires defenders to identify the play and get into position quickly.

So in that regarded, in the WJC and against certain collegiate teams, he was almost like an outfielder that had a harder time reading the ball as it left the bat. In his case, his speed and athleticism helps him make up for that delay in certain situations. But in certain situations it can be exploited as well --- and teams learned that this past year in the NCAA.

Now, having said that, reading plays is something that can improve with time and usually does. The goal will be to minimize his exposure to the teams who can exploit his weaknesses, build confidence, and then work with him to combine his God-given talents with proper training.

Which really underscores the importance of development for the organization.

 

[Fitzy]

I didn't get a chance to see Barron in college but am tickled he's a Cornell alum (Go Big Red!). There have been a few of us who have come into the league in recent years and had success, including Scrivens, Greening, and Nash. Two questions on Barron: (1) who does he compare to today; and (2) who does he project to compare to in his prime.

It’s hard, even as someone who watched a lot of NCAA hockey, because so many players have to play a different style in the NHL.

Hagelin for example was much more of a possession player in college.

For Barron I guess I’d say Dale Weise if he maintains his current style

 

[IDvsEGO]

And that's something I personally wouldn't like. Kaapo is not a power forward (whatever that may be these days) or a room maker. We'll see but I'd expect the line to have more success by having Panarin & Kakko play off each other rather than Strome & Panarin with Kaapo playing 3rd string.

I think part of the problem is that from what we’ve seen of kakko is that he’s a puck dominant player and when he’s at his best he controls play by controlling the puck and making his moves. Panarin is also a puck dominant player, who uses possession of the puck along with excellent lateral agility to gain space.
Kakko does his thing with physical power, panarin with agility, but both do the same thing in different ways but they both start with the puck.
The best analogy I have for something like this is basketball. When you have too many people who need possession of the basketball, no matter how talented unless someone changes their game it doesn’t go well.
my hope is that they move buch down and kakko up. Mika and kreider aren’t puck dominant in the same way panarin is.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I seem to remember strength and skill in tight spaces being some of the big selling points. Not every “power forward” is Lucic or Ovechkin.

And it doesn’t mean that will be his role forever, either. For a kid who is still very much finding his way to say the least I think it would make a lot of sense for the coaches to instruct him to “keep it simple” to an extent. And on that line he has that luxury. Add more to his game as the confidence grows.

 

[Fireonk]

Kaapo Kakko continues to impress the New York Rangers coaching staff

Nice headline, but not sure what I should think of Quinn saying Kaapo "knows his role on that line". Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but to me it sounds a bit like Strome and Panarin are going to do what they do and Kaapo is there to play it safe and make room for those 2. If that's the case, not happy with that. But like I said, maybe I'm interpreting it wrong.

I think the big role adjustment for him would be that he is used to being the guy who has the puck on his stick, making the offense flow through him as he dangles in tight spaces. If you are playing on a line with Panarin your job is going to be focused on getting open without the puck because you won't have the puck on your stick nearly as much and if you get open he will find you.

If Quinn is expecting him to be a bulldozer in the corner or be the guy to be defensively responsible to cover the other two, yeah, I don't see that leading to much success.

 

[TC82]

I think the big role adjustment for him would be that he is used to being the guy who has the puck on his stick, making the offense flow through him as he dangles in tight spaces. If you are playing on a line with Panarin your job is going to be focused on getting open without the puck because you won't have the puck on your stick nearly as much and if you get open he will find you.

If Quinn is expecting him to be a bulldozer in the corner or be the guy to be defensively responsible to cover the other two, yeah, I don't see that leading to much success.

I think Panarin & Kakko after a while would/will lead to nice puck movement if that's what they're allowed to do. I also hope Quinn shows more patience with him than last year. They (KK and Bread) might not hit it off right away, but just give it time and don't bury him to the 4th line after the first turnover.

 

[Edge]

I didn't get a chance to see Barron in college but am tickled he's a Cornell alum (Go Big Red!). There have been a few of us who have come into the league in recent years and had success, including Scrivens, Greening, and Nash. Two questions on Barron: (1) who does he compare to today; and (2) who does he project to compare to in his prime.

As most will tell you, I'm always really hesitant to give player comparisons because they are easy to misconstrue (in a positive or negative way).

Personally, I see some Benoit Pouliot in him, but with a clearer understanding from the get-go about being that type of player.

If he transitions, he's a guy you can plug into different roles, but who is probably most comfortable in a bottom six role that sees him take some shifts in the top six and add points.

He's got a good shot, that he can pinpoint fairly well, and his speed/size tends to force defenders to back up. He cycles the puck well and really doesn't get too fancy with it. He's a north-south skater who understands his goals are going to come from in-tight with coverage on him.

The challenge with putting him at center has always been that he doesn't quite look as comfortable being the guy who sets up the play or carries the puck long-distances. I think he's at his best when he's a finisher and can get the play closer to his high-probability zone.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I don't mind having Kakko focus his game around forechecking, winning puck battles, and keeping reliable positioning defensively. From what I saw last year -- especially on the PP -- Kakko's vision, puck skills, and touch around the net are all very high-caliber compared to the average NHLer even. He's was a liability in transition and struggled to find time to make plays as a primary carrier, even and especially in the offensive zone. Put him with a player like Panarin and he'll get great looks to score, he'll have a reliable outlet basically at all times, and with Strome too he'll have two guys who can carry the puck and let him find soft spots with time and space to make plays.

To me, Kakko developing some more tenacity, defensive conscience, and generally becoming an asset off the puck would all go a very long way to helping him reach his potential. With Panarin the points will come and that's great. When we drafted Kakko a lot of people likened his game to Marian Hossa. Hossa was a beast in puck battles and as a 200 ft winger.

 

[Mikos87]

I didn't get a chance to see Barron in college but am tickled he's a Cornell alum (Go Big Red!). There have been a few of us who have come into the league in recent years and had success, including Scrivens, Greening, and Nash. Two questions on Barron: (1) who does he compare to today; and (2) who does he project to compare to in his prime.

One of my old clients lives in the area, and is a huge Big Red guy. Spoke very highly of Morgan. IMO Barron can and should push for a spot, but the way to do it is to look at what the team needs on the big roster and fill that role better than his competition. That might mean embracing that 4th line role and taking advantage of that situation, and push up the line up with his play.

He likely isn't going to get PP time on the Rangers like he did in Cornell, but being a guy who can be reliable 5v5, and kill penalties, and free up more offensive looks for the guys in offensive roles... that's going to help this team take a step from last year.

Quinnie was talking about getting better defensively without sacrificing offense, well one of the best ways to do that is to mix up the player utilization matrix from last year. Strome and Zibs stepped up in roles that they didn't typically fulfill earlier in their careers on the defensive side. Zibs is, was, and will be a monster in all zones. He took a step into that rarified Kopitar/Toews Prime territory. That means you can free up Strome and Bread on more off the rush and offensive zone chances.

Bread was a part of the best rush offense in the league with CLB, and was a beast in CHI as well. Getting a few more guys who can be effective in that 4th line role shouldn't sacrifice offense, but rather add to it.

 

[Mikos87]

I don't mind having Kakko focus his game around forechecking, winning puck battles, and keeping reliable positioning defensively. From what I saw last year -- especially on the PP -- Kakko's vision, puck skills, and touch around the net are all very high-caliber compared to the average NHLer even. He's was a liability in transition and struggled to find time to make plays as a primary carrier, even and especially in the offensive zone. Put him with a player like Panarin and he'll get great looks to score, he'll have a reliable outlet basically at all times, and with Strome too he'll have two guys who can carry the puck and let him find soft spots with time and space to make plays.

To me, Kakko developing some more tenacity, defensive conscience, and generally becoming an asset off the puck would all go a very long way to helping him reach his potential. With Panarin the points will come and that's great. When we drafted Kakko a lot of people likened his game to Marian Hossa. Hossa was a beast in puck battles and as a 200 ft winger.

Great post, he would have to change the way he plays. Based on last year, I see more Jake Voracek than Hossa. Maybe with more goals and less assists than Jake, but to me that's more of a comparable. Now if he starts using the same puck protection and sweeping edgework that some of the tier 1 Finnish players are being trained in today.... that's a different story.

I'd be curious to see if Lundell is getting trained by the same people as Rantanen. The way they protect the puck, and also use their strides (with and without the puck) is very different and highly effective. The way they keep one leg engaged in the stride while the other is in the air is impressive to watch... it allows them to contort their hips to angle the direction of the next stride... thus getting them to maximize space and separation. Add in the size and reach... and you have a defender who is behind the play with his reach and positioning. Rantanen is masterful at this. Didn't he lead the league in scoring by a country for a bit out of nowhere?

Edit: Barkov too.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Personally, I see some Benoit Pouliot in him, but with a clearer understanding from the get-go about being that type of player.

Incoming 5-year, $20 million contract from Edmonton

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Kaapo Kakko continues to impress the New York Rangers coaching staff

Nice headline, but not sure what I should think of Quinn saying Kaapo "knows his role on that line". Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but to me it sounds a bit like Strome and Panarin are going to do what they do and Kaapo is there to play it safe and make room for those 2. If that's the case, not happy with that. But like I said, maybe I'm interpreting it wrong.

I would think that means that they want him to work the walls and do some of the more heavy lifting on that unit. Thats a strength of his though.


Stomes role on that line is to basically get out of the way and get ready.

 

[Edge]

Incoming 5-year, $20 million contract from Edmonton

And keeping in mind that guys like Barron are probably the ones who we replace every several years because of cost.

We love a lot of these depth prospects, but if they're good as we hope, but still aren't in the core, they're the ones who typically get moved.

That's why drafting guys like Berard, Vierling, Cuylle, etc. will be important moving forward.

Everyone wants the HR swing, and we can still take those, but finding depth players might actually be the more important goal over the next several drafts.

 

[Ghost of jas]

And keeping in mind that guys like Barron are probably the ones who we replace every several years because of cost.

We love a lot of these depth prospects, but if they're good as we hope, but still aren't in the core, they're the ones who typically get moved.

That's why drafting guys like Berard, Vierling, Cuylle, etc. will be important moving forward.

Everyone wants the HR swing, and we can still take those, but finding depth players might actually be the more important goal over the next several drafts.

My flippant post does actually touch on something, which you've partially hit on. We see these trade proposals just throwing out prospects, but, the Rangers are going to pay heed to maintain depth and cap flexibility. I keep saying I'm keeping Kravtsov if Buchnevich gets moved, because you have to have less expensive players ready to assume spots in the lineup when you've moved a veteran player. You also need to continue replenish draft picks to keep the pipeline primed. You don't just throw a bundle of prospects willy-nilly into a trade. You deal from the depth you've accumulated.

 

[Edge]

My flippant post does actually touch on something, which you've partially hit on. We see these trade proposals just throwing out prospects, but, the Rangers are going to pay heed to maintain depth and cap flexibility. I keep saying I'm keeping Kravtsov if Buchnevich gets move, because you have to have less expensive players ready to assume spots in the lineup when you've moved a veteran player. You also need to continue replenish draft picks to keep the pipeline primed. You don't just throw a bundle of prospects willy-nilly into a trade. You deal from the depth you've accumulated.

And that's it too. The prospects are assets that are potential trade chips. But they also represent depth replacement pieces as we move forward --- especially for a team that could very well have a lot of money locked in Lafreniere, Kakko, Fox and Shesterkin.

We all love those guys and love their potential. But they're going to cost us sooner than we might realize.

That's where having emerging talent of different ages really comes in handy, and trying to make sure their contracts aren't all up at the same time. Staggering will be important --- it's the salary cap equivalent of Tetris.

 

[Kovalev27]

No no I do believe Tony will start with trouba but I really don’t think it will be long before Miller is playing next to trouba quite frankly. I think early on you may see it even in protecting leads Tony could drop down to the third pair with smith. But that’s not a bad option to have either.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The Burns/Buff comparisons were drawns because both guys were forwards first. They've gone back and forth during their NHL careers as well.

Miller doesn't really play like either of them. He doesn't have the puck skills of either but its important to note that defenseman Buff was a train wreck in his own end.

In terms of style/frame/etc, Parayko has always been the best comp I've seen. If hes that good, we've won.

 

[FultonReed]

The Burns/Buff comparisons were drawns because both guys were forwards first. They've gone back and forth during their NHL careers as well.

Miller doesn't really play like either of them. He doesn't have the puck skills of either but its important to note that defenseman Buff was a train wreck in his own end.

In terms of style/frame/etc, Parayko has always been the best comp I've seen. If hes that good, we've won.

boy, if he's anything like Parayko, I'll absolutely scream. what a gem.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I do, but in even more of a supporting role.

That's one of the reasons I've not wasted too much time on Johnson.

At this point, when push comes to shove, there's a very good possibility that there are more pages dedicated to talking about Jack Johnson than there are games he plays as a Ranger.

Why do you think they signed him vs. another similar defenseman for low money/term? Or was there no one else like that available? Was it all because he played for Martin before? That's disheartening if true.

 

[AlaBlueShirt]

Panarin-Kane duo was one of the best in the nhl. Not saying Kakko is anywhere near the level Kane was/is today, but the line can work even better than last year.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

And that's it too. The prospects are assets that are potential trade chips. But they also represent depth replacement pieces as we move forward --- especially for a team that could very well have a lot of money locked in Lafreniere, Kakko, Fox and Shesterkin.

We all love those guys and love their potential. But they're going to cost us sooner than we might realize.

That's where having emerging talent of different ages really comes in handy, and trying to make sure their contracts aren't all up at the same time. Staggering will be important --- it's the salary cap equivalent of Tetris.

Exactly. And what I want to get away from is having to pay middle six players a lot of money. I really only want to spend a lot on the true top six kind of players. So, if that means drafting a lot more middle sixers to save the cap space, I think it makes a ton of sense.

 

[Edge]

Why do you think they signed him vs. another similar defenseman for low money/term? Or was there no one else like that available? Was it all because he played for Martin before? That's disheartening if true.

I suspect it was a combination of factors that included some players not wanting to go to certain cities right now, some players wanting more term than the Rangers were willing to give, and yes, a familiarity with what Martin is likely to implement.

I do think that last point is considerably more of a factor for coaches and management than a lot of fans realize.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I suspect it was a combination of factors that included some players not wanting to go to certain cities right now, some players wanting more term than the Rangers were willing to give, and yes, a familiarity with what Martin is likely to implement.

I do think that last point is considerably more of a factor for coaches and management than a lot of fans realize.

That last point feels like nepotism. The coach likes a hardworking bad player and brings him with him despite him being bad.