GDT: Training Camp 2021: Everyone Else Too Lazy to Make a Thread

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I know there are a ton of good goalies but Georgiev might carry some solid value after this year.

What backups are better than him? Maybe demko, khudobin, but I don’t think there’s many others.
 
Are people that have played like high level hockey in any capacity saying a captaincy isn’t important? I feel like it absolutely is in our sport. I’ve never played in a team from like age 13 or 14 up that I can recall that it wasn’t. It’s taken as a very serious thing. Which is why NYR hasn’t just given it to anyone.

it’s not like European football or baseball it’s a very important title in hockey. That’s all I’ve ever known
 
With all this talk about Smith, could anyone with some systems knowledge tell me what kind of D Martin runs?

Dom L's projections seem to peg Smith as one of the worst D in the league, but wasn't Smith borderline elite at denying zone entries prior to his Rangers tenure? Will Martin's system play to his strengths? I'm really hoping we don't collapse and surrender the blue line like we've been doing under both AV and Quinn. I'd rather stifle opportunities before they equate to zone time and live with the fact that we'll occasionally get burned than surrender the zone and get pinned for long periods of time.
No. Smith was always a 4-5 in Detroit. He benefitted from playing with excellent partners.
 
Are people that have played like high level hockey in any capacity saying a captaincy isn’t important? I feel like it absolutely is in our sport. I’ve never played in a team from like age 13 or 14 up that I can recall that it wasn’t. It’s taken as a very serious thing. Which is why NYR hasn’t just given it to anyone.

it’s not like European football or baseball it’s a very important title in hockey. That’s all I’ve ever known

For players who grew up playing the sport. Why do fans care?
 
Or the fans who think that sort of honor doesn't mean anything....feel like the ones thinking that might not have played much sports growing up.
Really? I played a ton of sports growing up, both competitive and non-competitive. I understand the significance associated with being named team captain--I just don't think that not having one is emblematic of a leadership void or some other deficiency on the team. I don't think a "leadership committee" is inherently worse than having a single player emerge as the primary leader of a team.
Are people that have played like high level hockey in any capacity saying a captaincy isn’t important? I feel like it absolutely is in our sport. I’ve never played in a team from like age 13 or 14 up that I can recall that it wasn’t. It’s taken as a very serious thing. Which is why NYR hasn’t just given it to anyone.

it’s not like European football or baseball it’s a very important title in hockey. That’s all I’ve ever known
As I said above, it's not that I don't think it's important. I think the "weight" of the letter can really take a toll on a guy if he's not suited to wear it; I also think some guys rise to the occasion when given the captaincy.

I just don't think having or not having a captain--by itself--would cause or prevent a team from having more/less success. Like if you have five guys who are all strong leaders, by example on and off the ice, and the team chooses to roll with three A's and no C--I don't think that's a problem at all.

My argument is more that the idea of not having a C is portrayed by fans who don't actually know the dynamics of the team as being far more important than it may be.
 
Really, I played a ton of sports growing up, both competitive and non-competitive. I understand the significance associated with being named team captain--I just don't think that not having one is emblematic of a leadership void or some other deficiency on the team. I don't think a "leadership committee" is inherently worse than having a single player emerge as the primary leader of a team.
That wasn't directed toward you. I was arguing the point of a poster or two saying the C on a player's jersey doesn't mean much, because it absolutely does for that player and his teammates. I don't have a problem with them waiting for the leader to emerage from the group and waiting to hand it out.
 
I would rather have leadership by committee as opposed to a single leader. I want lots of guys who have that level of character on a team. That is the kind of thing that more strongly creates a culture of accountability.
 
Really? I played a ton of sports growing up, both competitive and non-competitive. I understand the significance associated with being named team captain--I just don't think that not having one is emblematic of a leadership void or some other deficiency on the team. I don't think a "leadership committee" is inherently worse than having a single player emerge as the primary leader of a team.

As I said above, it's not that I don't think it's important. I think the "weight" of the letter can really take a toll on a guy if he's not suited to wear it; I also think some guys rise to the occasion when given the captaincy.

I just don't think having or not having a captain--by itself--would cause or prevent a team from having more/less success. Like if you have five guys who are all strong leaders, by example on and off the ice, and the team chooses to roll with three A's and no C--I don't think that's a problem at all.

My argument is more that the idea of not having a C is portrayed by fans who don't actually know the dynamics of the team as being far more important than it may be.

This is all fine, but the OP I was disagreeing with said players don't care about being captain, which is 100% false.
 
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That wasn't directed toward you. I was arguing the point of a poster or two saying the C on a player's jersey doesn't mean much, because it absolutely does for that player and his teammates. I don't have a problem with them waiting for the leader to emerage from the group and waiting to hand it out.
Yeah I'm just not a fan of the "If you disagree with X you probably didn't play sports..." cliché. You can sit ten former hall of fame players down in a room and talk about any subject, and I guarantee you you'll have several different viewpoints on the matter. Just because someone doesn't subscribe to the "traditionalist" way of thinking doesn't mean they're some basement-dwelling nerd who never played sports (I know you didn't say this, but the two argument are often part and parcel).

The basement-dwelling nerds who never played sports are taking over sports, anyway. :laugh:
 
That wasn't directed toward you. I was arguing the point of a poster or two saying the C on a player's jersey doesn't mean much, because it absolutely does for that player and his teammates. I don't have a problem with them waiting for the leader to emerage from the group and waiting to hand it out.

It depends.

It's obviously a great honor for the recipient and the C on the jersey just looks so f***ing cool, but there are a bunch of people around the league who wear the C whom I wouldn't consider leadership material.

Some guys are just born to lead (Messier, Toews) but a lot of times it seems like a team just hands it out to their best player or a guy who has been with the team for a long time. Not always, but that seems to be the norm these days.

At the end of the day, this is a team sport. If anything, winning with out a designated "C" on the team would be more symbolic of succeeding as a group than winning with one.
 
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This is all fine, but the OP I was disagreeing with said players don't care about being captain, which is 100% false.
Is it? Have you polled all the players out there? At all levels of hockey?

I'm sure the majority of players share the view of the captaincy as a sacred honor firmly entrenched in the culture of the sport. I'm sure there are also a lot of guys who don't really care. I mean, I know there are players who don't care who the captain is on their own team because they play the way they play and they don't need to take direction or motivation from a fellow player. They may respect the C and accordingly the person wearing it, but internally it doesn't mean anything to them. (I'm thinking of one very well-known player specifically who I won't name; although I only know a couple guys personally and have named them over the years :laugh:)

Some guys care, some guys don't.
 
I liked the set up in the cup year and the years after. Mess with the C and Graves, Leetch, Larmer & Lowe with the A’s. Anytime Mess was out, Graves wore the C, they never rolled with 3 A’s.
 
I know there are a ton of good goalies but Georgiev might carry some solid value after this year.

What backups are better than him? Maybe demko, khudobin, but I don’t think there’s many others.
demko is no longer a backup
 
Yeah I'm just not a fan of the "If you disagree with X you probably didn't play sports..." cliché. You can sit ten former hall of fame players down in a room and talk about any subject, and I guarantee you you'll have several different viewpoints on the matter. Just because someone doesn't subscribe to the "traditionalist" way of thinking doesn't mean they're some basement-dwelling nerd who never played sports (I know you didn't say this, but the two argument are often part and parcel).
Bob MacKenzie has told a story where he said on a studio that certain hit (can't remember which) will probably lead to a suspension by the NHL. Jeremy Roenick disagreed with him and the argument continued behind the scenes. Roenick said to McKenzien "You never played the game so you don't know what you're talking about". Bobby got a bit irritated and stated that "if that's your argument I'm going to lose every time. But would you listen to a better player than you as an authority on a given subject?" Roenick said yes and then McKenzie told him that he had talked to Bobby Orr? and he agreed it was a suspension. And that shut Roenick up.

Granted, there are lots of things you can't know without playing the game but still...
 
Bob MacKenzie has told a story where he said on a studio that certain hit (can't remember which) will probably lead to a suspension by the NHL. Jeremy Roenick disagreed with him and the argument continued behind the scenes. Roenick said to McKenzien "You never played the game so you don't know what you're talking about". Bobby got a bit irritated and stated that "if that's your argument I'm going to lose every time. But would you listen to a better player than you as an authority on a given subject?" Roenick said yes and then McKenzie told him that he had talked to Bobby Orr? and he agreed it was a suspension. And that shut Roenick up.

Granted, there are lots of things you can't know without playing the game but still...

Bob is a gem.
 
Is it? Have you polled all the players out there? At all levels of hockey?

I'm sure the majority of players share the view of the captaincy as a sacred honor firmly entrenched in the culture of the sport. I'm sure there are also a lot of guys who don't really care. I mean, I know there are players who don't care who the captain is on their own team because they play the way they play and they don't need to take direction or motivation from a fellow player. They may respect the C and accordingly the person wearing it, but internally it doesn't mean anything to them. (I'm thinking of one very well-known player specifically who I won't name; although I only know a couple guys personally and have named them over the years :laugh:)

Some guys care, some guys don't.

I wasn't saying 100% of players care, I was saying it's 100% false that none care.
 
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No. Smith was always a 4-5 in Detroit. He benefitted from playing with excellent partners.
I not saying he wasn't a 4-5. And I'm not saying he didn't benefit from good partners. I'm saying he was statistically very good at one thing, and that one thing was heavily de-emphasized in our D system.

I just don't think he's anywhere near as bad as Dom's modeling suggests.
 
Hockey is the only sport where captain discussion is even thought about

that dumb C is super romanticized

This a million times this. Hockey fans are the most up their own ass fans on the planet outside of maybe baseball fans. I'm sure there are worthy captains like Messier, but almost every team has a captain every year, it's not special.
 
Bob MacKenzie has told a story where he said on a studio that certain hit (can't remember which) will probably lead to a suspension by the NHL. Jeremy Roenick disagreed with him and the argument continued behind the scenes. Roenick said to McKenzien "You never played the game so you don't know what you're talking about". Bobby got a bit irritated and stated that "if that's your argument I'm going to lose every time. But would you listen to a better player than you as an authority on a given subject?" Roenick said yes and then McKenzie told him that he had talked to Bobby Orr? and he agreed it was a suspension. And that shut Roenick up.

Granted, there are lots of things you can't know without playing the game but still...
Yeah I mean you see it all the time in sports now, particularly with the proliferation of social media. Something controversial happens and two guys from one team are interviewed right after the game and condemn it. Then hours later several other guys from the team say it was no big deal. In baseball you have the whole "unwritten rules are sacred" and "play the right way" crowd of players and coaches and then you have the guys who think that's garbage and flip their bas into the air and have fun. Hockey players are split over whether hits are clean all the time. And on and on. Playing the game, even at the highest level, doesn't mean everyone has some homogeneous perspective on everything.
I wasn't saying 100% of players care, I was saying it's 100% false that none care.
My mistake, and apologies.
 
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