Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[Roo]

Ltir dewar and hakanpaa, sign patches. No other moves needed. I’d rather hold onto jarnkrok over signing Lorentz.

 

[conFABulator]

nobody want to give him a contract,he's on a PTO with hope to finish with a contract. Guy like lorentz, you will see a dozen like him being waive before start of season

I dont have any idea of shutdown line but giving you an option than bring back domi at C on offensive situation ( trying to keep him away of tought defensive situation

You need a little bit of everything in a team and at C they are pretty thin and its not in november than you will find option from trade...

I put more stock in Lorentz than you do. I think he brings things we need and don't have any would prefer we pay 1 x $900K for the 4C than 3 x $2.4.

I am not a Kampf hater, however with an eye on team building I don't like the value for contract. Why compared him to Lorentz when he is making 2.5 times more than him? My lines might look like...

Knies Matthews Domi
Robertson Nylander Marner
Pacioretty Tavares McMann
Lorentz Holmberg Jarnkrok
Cowan (worked into the lineup for at least 9 games)
Reaves (waived is Jarnkrok isn't traded too)
Dewar (IT)

What does your roster and cap compliant forward group look like? I ask because I can't see it working unless you dump Jarnkrok and would rather jettison Kampf's contract, but would be happy with both.

Actually the entire roster needs that salary out so we can protect Timmons (until Hakanpaa is back), Murray (i think we need a 3rd), and bring Dewar back when healthy.

Ltir dewar and hakanpaa, sign patches. No other moves needed. I’d rather hold onto jarnkrok over signing Lorentz.

That's a fair position. I have started to like what Lorentz brings and would certainly like the contract and potential playoff value more than what Jarnkrok brings.

 

[Menzinger]

I honestly don't know what we're going to do about our 4th line

Are we going with a physical tone setting line or a defensively responsible bury them in the defensive zone line

Kampf isn't physical, but he is a good defensive forward, as is Jarnkrok and Holmberg
Reeves and Lorenz want to hit everything but I wouldn't trust either of them defensively and Dewar can do a bit of both

Those players don't mix well and when you do mix them you lose any identity you may of had and they struggle to be physical or good defensively

They need to sort it out then we know who should be on the chopping block

It's definitely a bit of a mess. Reaves and Kampf can't effectively play together since Reaves requires heavily sheltered minutes and Kampf is useless in the offensive zone.

I don't dislike Kampf as much as some, but he probably should be moved and just try to put together an energy group of guys for the 4th, at least that's what Berube seems to want

 

[conFABulator]

It's definitely a bit of a mess. Reaves and Kampf can't effectively play together since Reaves requires heavily sheltered minutes and Kampf is useless in the offensive zone.

I don't dislike Kampf as much as some, but he probably should be moved and just try to put together an energy group of guys for the 4th, at least that's what Berube seems to want

I think this is an important point. When I say we should move on from Kampf and Jarnkrok is has a lot to do with

(a) i think we want a fourth line with an identity made up of Reaves, Lorentz, Dewar and not Jarnkrok, Kampf and Holmberg.

(b) Going with three scoring lines spreading out the core four should mean even less ES ice time for the fourth line.

Based on these two factors, I don't think we should be happily committing $4.5M to two guys that aren't what we are looking for, don't produce in the playoffs and won't get much ice time.

We have enough forward depth that we should be making these moves. That space and those spots could go a long way for us to define a new identity.

There are 48 ES minutes per night. If we want the top three lines to average 15 ES minutes per night, that leaves 3 minutes for the fourth. There are 12 PK forward minutes and 24 PP forward minutes. We need to make sure we have PK coverage if we move Kampf and/or Jarnkrok

 

[thusk]

I put more stock in Lorentz than you do. I think he brings things we need and don't have any would prefer we pay 1 x $900K for the 4C than 3 x $2.4.

I am not a Kampf hater, however with an eye on team building I don't like the value for contract. Why compared him to Lorentz when he is making 2.5 times more than him? My lines might look like...

Knies Matthews Domi
Robertson Nylander Marner
Pacioretty Tavares McMann
Lorentz Holmberg Jarnkrok
Cowan (worked into the lineup for at least 9 games)
Reaves (waived is Jarnkrok isn't traded too)
Dewar (IT)

What does your roster and cap compliant forward group look like? I ask because I can't see it working unless you dump Jarnkrok and would rather jettison Kampf's contract, but would be happy with both.

Actually the entire roster needs that salary out so we can protect Timmons (until Hakanpaa is back), Murray (i think we need a 3rd), and bring Dewar back when healthy.



That's a fair position. I have started to like what Lorentz brings and would certainly like the contract and potential playoff value more than what Jarnkrok brings.

Working only if Nylander prove he can play center at NHL level and its a huge guest right now

For sure cap hit matter and i would be fine moving Kampf if leafs would have better option... but that's the problem... i dont see any better option and just a huge package of guest.

At least we know exactly the impact Kampf could have in the defensive part. May

 

[Kiwi]

It's definitely a bit of a mess. Reaves and Kampf can't effectively play together since Reaves requires heavily sheltered minutes and Kampf is useless in the offensive zone.

I don't dislike Kampf as much as some, but he probably should be moved and just try to put together an energy group of guys for the 4th, at least that's what Berube seems to want

I'd agree that's what Berube probably wants but I think having a line of Holmberg Kampf and Jarnkrok you can bury in the defensive zone would be extremely useful if Nylander is going to be playing center

I'd rather have those guys doing 10 minutes of tough defensive work than Matthews, his line is to good offensively to waste like that and the other two lines seem unsuitable for that type of use

 

[Stephen]

I'd agree that's what Berube probably wants but I think having a line of Holmberg Kampf and Jarnkrok you can bury in the defensive zone would be extremely useful if Nylander is going to be playing center

I'd rather have those guys doing 10 minutes of tough defensive work than Matthews, his line is to good offensively to waste like that and the other two lines seem unsuitable for that type of use

My feeling is between Jarnkrok and Kampf, Jarnkrok may be diminishing returns and is so bland to begin with. If you're adding Pacioretty with a full time Robertson you'll have more scoring throughout the lineup, and Lorentz gives you more bite in an energy role.

 

[Kiwi]

My feeling is between Jarnkrok and Kampf, Jarnkrok may be diminishing returns and is so bland to begin with. If you're adding Pacioretty with a full time Robertson you'll have more scoring throughout the lineup, and Lorentz gives you more bite in an energy role.

I'm looking for the top 9 to do the scoring and the 4th line to take as much defensive load off them as possible

Jarnkrok is a much better defensive player than Patches or Robertson, there top 9 players

 

[conFABulator]

At least we know exactly the impact Kampf could have in the defensive part.

Do we? With Reaves on his wing?

 

[Stephen]

I'm looking for the top 9 to do the scoring and the 4th line to take as much defensive load off them as possible

Jarnkrok is a much better defensive player than Patches or Robertson, there top 9 players

$2.1 million for Jarnkrok though.

 

[conFABulator]

I'm looking for the top 9 to do the scoring and the 4th line to take as much defensive load off them as possible

Jarnkrok is a much better defensive player than Patches or Robertson, there top 9 players

The difference this year might be that we plan to have a top nine and not a top six and bottom six. If we have the core four across three lines and we want them to average 15 ES minutes a night, then that only leaves a handful of fourth line minutes.

Maybe this is the year we finally take the game to opposition every night and have less need for a shut down or defensive line?

 

[VanW27]

It's definitely a bit of a mess. Reaves and Kampf can't effectively play together since Reaves requires heavily sheltered minutes and Kampf is useless in the offensive zone.

I don't dislike Kampf as much as some, but he probably should be moved and just try to put together an energy group of guys for the 4th, at least that's what Berube seems to want

That's the fundamental issue. It's not that Kampf is trash, or Reaves is useless it's that we have 4th liners we've invested in that can't play together.

You want Kampf as your 4C, sure, makes sense. You need to give him defensively sound wingers who can skate and carry the puck and you've got a 'shut down' and PK 4th line. (eg. Engvall-Kampf-Lafferty)

You want Reaves as your 4RW. Sure, play him with a couple of heavy, energy players and you have a line that can be a forchecking and physical force. (eg. Lorentz-Acciari-Reaves)

Instead we get a mishmash of whatever is left over on the 4th line and it's not good at anything. Like what we started last season with.

Robertson-Kampf-Reaves

A shooter with 2 guys who can't make a play to save their life. A defensive specialist with 2 guys who are awful defensively. A heavyweight with 2 guys who aren't physical.

 

[Kiwi]

$2.1 million for Jarnkrok though.

He's expensive but he is one of our better defensive forwards

The difference this year might be that we plan to have a top nine and not a top six and bottom six. If we have the core four across three lines and we want them to average 15 ES minutes a night, then that only leaves a handful of fourth line minutes.

Maybe this is the year we finally take the game to opposition every night and have less need for a shut down or defensive line?

The problem is if the Nylander and Tavares lines aren't suited to defensive usage the only lines you have left are the Matthew's line and the 4th line and I think defensive zones starts with the Matthew's line are a waste of offensive talent

My idea is the 4th line gets defensive zone usage and we roll the other 3 lines offensively

 

[conFABulator]

That's the fundamental issue. It's not that Kampf is trash, or Reaves is useless it's that we have 4th liners we've invested in that can't play together.

You want Kampf as your 4C, sure, makes sense. You need to give him defensively sound wingers who can skate and carry the puck and you've got a 'shut down' and PK 4th line. (eg. Engvall-Kampf-Lafferty)

You want Reaves as your 4RW. Sure, play him with a couple of heavy, energy players and you have a line that can be a forchecking and physical force. (eg. Lorentz-Acciari-Reaves)

Instead we get a mishmash of whatever is left over on the 4th line and it's not good at anything. Like what we started last season with.

Robertson-Kampf-Reaves

A shooter with 2 guys who can't make a play to save their life. A defensive specialist with 2 guys who are awful defensively. A heavyweight with 2 guys who aren't physical.

I agree.

McMann could be a fourth line option if we go heavy. Say McMann, Lorentz, Dewar and Reaves bring the rotation. Maybe Minten even eventually works with Lorentz and McMann?

I like McMann a lot and don't like the perceived demotion, but it could make for a very useful line that can change the flow of a game, or keep the flow going.

This has Knies, Marner, Domi, Pacioretty, Robertson and one of Holmberg or Cowan (or even Grebenkin) as the top nine wingers. Possibly Jarnkrok too, though I would move him and Kampf out.

 

[Dreakmur]

Ltir dewar and hakanpaa, sign patches. No other moves needed. I’d rather hold onto jarnkrok over signing Lorentz.

I think Patches and Robertson are fighting for the same one roster spot. I’m not sure I’d sign Patches just to bump Robertson….

That's the fundamental issue. It's not that Kampf is trash, or Reaves is useless it's that we have 4th liners we've invested in that can't play together.

You want Kampf as your 4C, sure, makes sense. You need to give him defensively sound wingers who can skate and carry the puck and you've got a 'shut down' and PK 4th line. (eg. Engvall-Kampf-Lafferty)

You want Reaves as your 4RW. Sure, play him with a couple of heavy, energy players and you have a line that can be a forchecking and physical force. (eg. Lorentz-Acciari-Reaves)

Instead we get a mishmash of whatever is left over on the 4th line and it's not good at anything. Like what we started last season with.

Robertson-Kampf-Reaves

A shooter with 2 guys who can't make a play to save their life. A defensive specialist with 2 guys who are awful defensively. A heavyweight with 2 guys who aren't physical.

Very good points.

I’ve said it hundreds of times, you don’t build the best team by just signing the best players…. And the above points explain why. Fit matters. Roles matter. Style matters…

 

[conFABulator]

The problem is if the Nylander and Tavares lines aren't suited to defensive usage the only lines you have left are the Matthew's line and the 4th line and I think defensive zones starts with the Matthew's line are a waste of offensive talent

My idea is the 4th line gets defensive zone usage and we roll the other 3 lines offensively

That's somewhat true, but what if our style of play is finally to not be on the defensive as much? What team has so much depth that we can match up with them? I would put a Matthews line against a McDavid or McKinnon line all night. After that, let's see how the other team defends our three lines.

We have Matthews, Marner, Knies, and possibly McMann, Holmberg, Cowan, or Jarnkrok in the top nine. Tavares, Nylander, Domi and Robertson have to do their part too. New coach.

Not working? Promote McMann or Holmberg or Jarnkrok to the top nine if someone up there is only playing one way.

I think a lot about minutes distribution and believe our fourth line won't be needed if we have three that can possess and score.

 

[TMLAM34]

I think Patches and Robertson are fighting for the same one roster spot. I’m not sure I’d sign Patches just to bump Robertson….



Very good points.

I’ve said it hundreds of times, you don’t build the best team by just signing the best players…. And the above points explain why. Fit matters. Roles matter. Style matters…

I don’t think Pacioretty and Robertson are fighting for the same spot at all. I think both make the team, as they should. Our LW depth went from being pretty weak to being pretty strong IMO, Knies - Robertson - Pacioretty - McMann.

 

[Dreakmur]

I don’t think Pacioretty and Robertson are fighting for the same spot at all. I think both make the team, as they should. Our LW depth went from being pretty weak to being pretty strong IMO, Knies - Robertson - Pacioretty - McMann.

While McMann may be the 4th best of the bunch, and even be the one best suited for 4th line duty, he’s most needed in the middle-6.

Tavares and Nylander can’t be flanked by two non-physical and/or defensively inept wingers.

 

[Kiwi]

That's somewhat true, but what if our style of play is finally to not be on the defensive as much? What team has so much depth that we can match up with them? I would put a Matthews line against a McDavid or McKinnon line all night. After that, let's see how the other team defends our three lines.

We have Matthews, Marner, Knies, and possibly McMann, Holmberg, Cowan, or Jarnkrok in the top nine. Tavares, Nylander, Domi and Robertson have to do their part too. New coach.

Not working? Promote McMann or Holmberg or Jarnkrok to the top nine if someone up there is only playing one way.

I think a lot about minutes distribution and believe our fourth line won't be needed if we have three that can possess and score.

The problem is at some times during games you are going to have a defensive zone start or two, you can't dominate every minute

I'd just rather have defensive specialists doing that job so our best offensive players can be used to create offense

 

[conFABulator]

The problem is at some times during games you are going to have a defensive zone start or two, you can't dominate every minute

I'd just rather have defensive specialists doing that job so our best offensive players can be used to create offense

I would like to have that too.

How do you configure the four lines? How much ice time for each? You don't have to answer that, but it's where I get tripped up.

I also think Tre and Berube to have a big and heavy fourth line that impact the game in other ways.

...and I really want Kampf and Jarnkrok off our books and if we can do that now, we should do it IMO.

 

[Kiwi]

I would like to have that too.

How do you configure the four lines? How much ice time for each? You don't have to answer that, but it's where I get tripped up.

I also think Tre and Berube to have a big and heavy fourth line that impact the game in other ways.

...and I really want Kampf and Jarnkrok off our books and if we can do that now, we should do it IMO.

Attacking top 9, defensive 4th line getting buried in the defensive zone playing 5-10 minutes a night depending on the situation

That's what I think Berube wants to so I could see you getting your wish

 

[Roo]

I put more stock in Lorentz than you do. I think he brings things we need and don't have any would prefer we pay 1 x $900K for the 4C than 3 x $2.4.

I am not a Kampf hater, however with an eye on team building I don't like the value for contract. Why compared him to Lorentz when he is making 2.5 times more than him? My lines might look like...

Knies Matthews Domi
Robertson Nylander Marner
Pacioretty Tavares McMann
Lorentz Holmberg Jarnkrok
Cowan (worked into the lineup for at least 9 games)
Reaves (waived is Jarnkrok isn't traded too)
Dewar (IT)

What does your roster and cap compliant forward group look like? I ask because I can't see it working unless you dump Jarnkrok and would rather jettison Kampf's contract, but would be happy with both.

Actually the entire roster needs that salary out so we can protect Timmons (until Hakanpaa is back), Murray (i think we need a 3rd), and bring Dewar back when healthy.



That's a fair position. I have started to like what Lorentz brings and would certainly like the contract and potential playoff value more than what Jarnkrok brings.

I do like what I’ve seen from Lorentz, and maybe Holmberg is making Jarnkrok redundant. Part of me wonders what happens to Nylander at C, because if he doesn’t stick then right now Holmberg is the #3 center. Lorentz would look good on that 4th line LW in that case.

 

[conFABulator]

I do like what I’ve seen from Lorentz, and maybe Holmberg is making Jarnkrok redundant. Part of me wonders what happens to Nylander at C, because if he doesn’t stick then right now Holmberg is the #3 center. Lorentz would look good on that 4th line LW in that case.

I have thought about the Holmberg making Jarnkrok redundant also. That would be a great outcome for us. We want an effective fourth line for $3.5M or less.

 

[horner]

I have thought about the Holmberg making Jarnkrok redundant also. That would be a great outcome for us. We want an effective fourth line for $3.5M or less.

Making Kampf redundant

 

[conFABulator]

Making Kampf redundant

Well he does play C, so there is that. A fourth line of Dewar Holmberg Lorentz could work for us, so could Dewar Lorentz McMann if we want to play Holmberg in the top nine, not something we say often about Kampf.

It could also be a line get Cowan, Grebenkin and Minten some reps.