GDT: Trades & Free Agency Thread - Off-Season Early Edition

[613Leafer]

Seems there's a reasonable debate as to whether you protect Dermott or Holl on the blueline. So if it's relatively close, why don't we just trade for a forward who would otherwise be exposed (e.g. Foegele, who would be a cheap Hyman replacement) and then protect 7-3-1? A lot of teams don't have a forward slot available to trade for a forward, so trade prices should be depressed right now, and a team like Carolina would just be trying to not lose Foegele for nothing. Arvidsson's trade value for example seemed quite low when he was moved recently for the same reason. Foegele is who jumps to mind for me (hard working 25 year old winger who can move around your top 9), but I'm sure there are a few other options out there.

If Holl gets claimed by Seattle, then our blueline would be:

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Dermott/Sandin
Dermott/Sandin-UFA
Liljegren

UFA would hopefully just be Bogosian again, signed after the expansion draft.

 

[hullsy47]

I believe that; the value to me is horrible, trade wise.

I agree but either Reilly can resign here or u have to move him
Your not getting bertuzzi without giving up a player
The true fact is ,dubas created a mess buy saying he has a core but in reality he's losing his heart and soul
And I think everybody knows marner is the problem contract

 

[ToneDog]

Seems there's a reasonable debate as to whether you protect Dermott or Holl on the blueline. So if it's relatively close, why don't we just trade for a forward who would otherwise be exposed (e.g. Foegele, who would be a cheap Hyman replacement) and then protect 7-3-1? A lot of teams don't have a forward slot available to trade for a forward, so trade prices should be depressed right now, and a team like Carolina would just be trying to not lose Foegele for nothing. Arvidsson's trade value for example seemed quite low when he was moved recently for the same reason. Foegele is who jumps to mind for me (hard working 25 year old winger who can move around your top 9), but I'm sure there are a few other options out there.

If Holl gets claimed by Seattle, then our blueline would be:

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Dermott/Sandin
Dermott/Sandin-UFA
Liljegren

UFA would hopefully just be Bogosian again, signed after the expansion draft.

An Oleksiak/Bogo pair would be sweet and sour.

 

[New Liskeard]

I think the difference is Krug is most useful on the PP while Rielly consistently drives 5v5 offense. He's only been declining offensively because he's not putting up PP points anymore. Rielly is still one of the best offensive defensemen in the league 5v5. But I agree that he's bad defensively, which is why I'm only comfortable with an extension around $5.5 or so.

Last I checked, there wasn't one useful Leaf player on the PP last year.

 

[New Liskeard]

I'm sorry but Morgan Rielly is nowhere near a #1 defenseman. He's a good number 2. Everyone is willing to sign Rielly for 6.5 when he's been declining the last 2 years offensively, probably had his worst defensive season and can't qb a powerplay. Then people wonder why we're in cap hell.

You're entitled to your view, but Reilly is absolutely a number 1 D in the NHL. If you are suggesting the Leafs are in cap hell because of Reilly; you're completely out to lunch on that one.

 

[Cor]

Seems there's a reasonable debate as to whether you protect Dermott or Holl on the blueline. So if it's relatively close, why don't we just trade for a forward who would otherwise be exposed (e.g. Foegele, who would be a cheap Hyman replacement) and then protect 7-3-1? A lot of teams don't have a forward slot available to trade for a forward, so trade prices should be depressed right now, and a team like Carolina would just be trying to not lose Foegele for nothing. Arvidsson's trade value for example seemed quite low when he was moved recently for the same reason. Foegele is who jumps to mind for me (hard working 25 year old winger who can move around your top 9), but I'm sure there are a few other options out there.

If Holl gets claimed by Seattle, then our blueline would be:

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Dermott/Sandin
Dermott/Sandin-UFA
Liljegren

UFA would hopefully just be Bogosian again, signed after the expansion draft.

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Liljegren
Dermott - Bogosian
Hutton - UFA RD
Sandin (AHL)

I think would be a good target for the blueline if we left Holl exposed and they took him (or traded him).

Sandin is developing well, but I think he can use some AHL time still. I think Liljegren is NHL ready, and Muzzin would be a great for him to play beside. If needed, we can swap he and Bogosian at times depending on game situations.

 

[Cor]

Ask yourself this, if Toronto had Hedman or Pietrangelo, would Rielly still be a #1, if the answer is no, then he's not a number one defenseman. Yes, he's number 1 on Toronto but that's by default, not by his skill set.

…….. what?

Hedman trumps every other d-man in the league. By that logic, there is no other #1 d-man in the league.

Confusing logic there

 

[Mickey Marner]

If Rielly comes in =<6.5 AAV I'm fine with keeping him. He and Brodie make a solid pair and ~17 million for Rielly/Brodie/Muzzin is fine. We desperately need to find a proper PP QB though, none of our defensemen are suitable for a top unit.

 

[New Liskeard]

If Rielly comes in =<6.5 AAV I'm fine with keeping him. He and Brodie make a solid pair and ~17 million for Rielly/Brodie/Muzzin is fine. We desperately need to find a proper PP QB though, none of our defensemen are suitable for a top unit.

The PP in and of itself was terrible last year; a different PP QB would not have changed a thing. This is an area that needs to be improved dramatically. Its not a personnel issue (look at the PP stats the first month or so of the year) its a systems issue.

 

[Amadeus]

If Rielly comes in =<6.5 AAV I'm fine with keeping him. He and Brodie make a solid pair and ~17 million for Rielly/Brodie/Muzzin is fine. We desperately need to find a proper PP QB though, none of our defensemen are suitable for a top unit.

We neither have a shot from the point. I think more so than a PP QB, we need a legit shot from the point to give our forwards some space to operate on the PP.

 

[Mickey Marner]

The PP in and of itself was terrible last year; a different PP QB would not have changed a thing. This is an area that needs to be improved dramatically. Its not a personnel issue (look at the PP stats the first month or so of the year) its a systems issue.

The PP issues certainly go beyond the absence of a PPQB, but it's still an issue that's been left unsolved for five years now.

 

[Cor]

We neither have a shot from the point. I think more so than a PP QB, we need a legit shot from the point to give our forwards some space to operate on the PP.

That can come from having a better shooter in Marner’s spot. Marner needs to play the bump spot, or the low spot.

He’s a non shooting threat. Teams just block the lanes to Tavares and Matthews. They don’t care if Marner slides it to Rielly or shoots it.

If Rielly, as the PP QB (or Sandin if he’s there) actually are the ones to move the puck, with Matthews on the left side boards and say Tavares or Nylander on the right side boards, the passing lanes will open up because we have a shooting threat on both sides of the ice instead of just Matthews on the left, and Tavares being blocked down near the goal.

Also, would be nice to have someone near the net that can do something ala JVR instead of Simmonds or Thornton who can’t handle that spot. That’s probably the biggest issue.

 

[Dreakmur]

The PP in and of itself was terrible last year; a different PP QB would not have changed a thing. This is an area that needs to be improved dramatically. Its not a personnel issue (look at the PP stats the first month or so of the year) its a systems issue.

No point shot is dangerous without traffic. The biggest issue with the PP has always been the lack of any willingness to go to the dirty areas.

 

[Duke16]

Sandin has all the tools to be a PP1 QB. Much more deceptive and creative than Rielly in his playmaking and movements along the blue line and better at getting his shot through.

As long as his teammates aren't putting him in a terrible spot where he has to catch an above average skater on a SH breakaway each game, Sandin could be the answer to this spot for a decade.

 

[Cor]

I have a weird feeling that Fleury might be our second goalie next year with Campbell.

- Reports that Vegas is in on Eichel
- Part of the speculation is that Fleury’s salary would need to depart in the deal.
- Reports that the Eichel deal won’t happen until after Expansion.
- CJ mentioned on the SDP after the season that he felt we are more likely to acquire a goalie than sign one from the FA class.

So I can see a scenario where Buffalo gets futures + Fleury for Eichel from Vegas, and then we get Fleury @ 50% from Buffalo in exchange for futures.

 

[Duke16]

I have a weird feeling that Fleury might be our second goalie next year with Campbell.

- Reports that Vegas is in on Eichel
- Part of the speculation is that Fleury’s salary would need to depart in the deal.
- Reports that the Eichel deal won’t happen until after Expansion.
- CJ mentioned on the SDP after the season that he felt we are more likely to acquire a goalie than sign one from the FA class.

So I can see a scenario where Buffalo gets futures + Fleury for Eichel from Vegas, and then we get Fleury @ 50% from Buffalo in exchange for futures.

This is an interesting thought and one that I could honestly get behind. Fleury retained is $3.5M, which is more than I wanted to allocate to a goalie, but he just won a Vezina and is excellent insurance in case Campbell falters at all, or he just helps to form one of the league's best tandems in a best case scenario.

Getting MAF, especially, at $3.5M could easily be a much more notable positive impact to this team than whatever third liner was going to take up the extra couple mil (~$1.5-2M). Atleast $2M was likely going towards a lesser goalie anyways.

 

[Brobust]

I have a weird feeling that Fleury might be our second goalie next year with Campbell.

- Reports that Vegas is in on Eichel
- Part of the speculation is that Fleury’s salary would need to depart in the deal.
- Reports that the Eichel deal won’t happen until after Expansion.
- CJ mentioned on the SDP after the season that he felt we are more likely to acquire a goalie than sign one from the FA class.

So I can see a scenario where Buffalo gets futures + Fleury for Eichel from Vegas, and then we get Fleury @ 50% from Buffalo in exchange for futures.

I don't think Dubas would spend $7M on someone they plan to use as a 1B to Campbell.

Either they go all in on a franchise goalie like Gibson/Lehner to take the job from Campbell or they buy low on someone like Raanta.

 

[ToneDog]

This is an interesting thought and one that I could honestly get behind. Fleury retained is $3.5M, which is more than I wanted to allocate to a goalie, but he just won a Vezina and is excellent insurance in case Campbell falters at all, or he just helps to form one of the league's best tandems in a best case scenario.

Getting MAF, especially, at $3.5M could easily be a much more notable positive impact to this team than whatever third liner was going to take up the extra couple mil (~$1.5-2M). Atleast $2M was likely going towards a lesser goalie anyways.

Was hoping we dumped Andy last year and picked up MAF @50% for pennies on the dollar.

Doubt MAF has any interest in coming to T.O to be the backup for Soup. Even so, I doubt it would take him long to take over the #1 starter role.

 

[Pinto]

I have a weird feeling that Fleury might be our second goalie next year with Campbell.

- Reports that Vegas is in on Eichel
- Part of the speculation is that Fleury’s salary would need to depart in the deal.
- Reports that the Eichel deal won’t happen until after Expansion.
- CJ mentioned on the SDP after the season that he felt we are more likely to acquire a goalie than sign one from the FA class.

So I can see a scenario where Buffalo gets futures + Fleury for Eichel from Vegas, and then we get Fleury @ 50% from Buffalo in exchange for futures.

I’ve actually thought about this exact scenario and I could definitely see it.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Would you sign Morgan Rielly to a low number if it meant longer term and a no-move clause?

Let’s say he was willing to sign for Muzzin’s number (5.625 million) for 8 years and a no-move clause, would you do it?

I offer him kessels retention money that happens to free up the same time Mo needs a new deal. 8x6.25=50m it’s the Ryan Ellis contract. If he doesn’t take it you move him and sign a ufa replacement

 

[Nylanderthal]

Ask yourself this, if Toronto had Hedman or Pietrangelo, would Rielly still be a #1, if the answer is no, then he's not a number one defenseman. Yes, he's number 1 on Toronto but that's by default, not by his skill set.

If that’s your basis for a #1 then there’s like 10-12 of them in the entire league

 

[613Leafer]

If that’s your basis for a #1 then there’s like 10-12 of them in the entire league

To be fair, only two teams have won a Stanley Cup in the cap era without a dman of that calibre (Carolina 2006 and Pittsburgh 2017). The rest have all been Hedman X2, Keith X3, Doughty X2, Pietrangelo, Chara, Lidstrom, Pronger/Niedermayer, Carlson, Letang, and Gonchar.

So it's a borderline requirement to have a dman of that calibre to win the Cup. My definition of "#1 dman" is that you can realistically see the player fill that role on a Stanley Cup winning team, and not have it be a major anomaly like the Carolina/Pittsburgh wins. So Rielly IMO is not a #1 dman - he can fill the role on a pretty solid team, but to be a true top contender, you probably feel like you want an upgrade there.

 

[FreeBird]

If that’s your basis for a #1 then there’s like 10-12 of them in the entire league

correct

 

[Brobust]

To be fair, only two teams have won a Stanley Cup in the cap era without a dman of that calibre (Carolina 2006 and Pittsburgh 2017). The rest have all been Hedman X2, Keith X3, Doughty X2, Pietrangelo, Chara, Lidstrom, Pronger/Niedermayer, Carlson, Letang, and Gonchar.

So it's a borderline requirement to have a dman of that calibre to win the Cup. My definition of "#1 dman" is that you can realistically see the player fill that role on a Stanley Cup winning team, and not have it be a major anomaly like the Carolina/Pittsburgh wins. So Rielly IMO is not a #1 dman - he can fill the role on a pretty solid team, but to be a true top contender, you probably feel like you want an upgrade there.

People will laugh because he doesn't have the pedigree but Muzzin was a top 10-12 defenceman this past season. Brodie was also one of the best defensive defencemen this past season as well.

 

[ToneDog]

To be fair, only two teams have won a Stanley Cup in the cap era without a dman of that calibre (Carolina 2006 and Pittsburgh 2017). The rest have all been Hedman X2, Keith X3, Doughty X2, Pietrangelo, Chara, Lidstrom, Pronger/Niedermayer, Carlson, Letang, and Gonchar.

So it's a borderline requirement to have a dman of that calibre to win the Cup. My definition of "#1 dman" is that you can realistically see the player fill that role on a Stanley Cup winning team, and not have it be a major anomaly like the Carolina/Pittsburgh wins. So Rielly IMO is not a #1 dman - he can fill the role on a pretty solid team, but to be a true top contender, you probably feel like you want an upgrade there.

#1 dmen close rather than back up when a winger enters the zone on his side. Seen it too many times. Shows lack of confidence IMO.