Trades & Free Agency Thread: 2024-2025 - Trade Deadline Approaches

[hullsy47]

Why do you feel they don't have 'accountability'?

I think its time for pelley or shanahan to speak
Either back up your team or move on
This is a soap opera .this team is still a ways away from a cup ,8n fact without better than adequate goaltending theud be scramnling

 

[Americanadian]

Marner was Damn near 2 mil over paid not maybe 1.5 he should have came in at 8-8.5 when Willy came in at under 7 but he thought he was worth 4 million more than Willie and 600 k less than matthews that’s your problem yes we didn’t need jt and he changed the cap structure but he was a ufa marner should have been traded for a haul but at this point we shouldn’t make letting our players walk be the first option try to trade marner for something he can fill our number 1 d role

Marner and Point were RFA’s at the same time. Point was a C with 41G/92P. Marner a W with 36G/94P. Point took a bridge deal at 6.75M and everyone said “Point will surpass Marner on his next contract, Leafs were smart to sign Marner longer term”. Now fast forward to today - Point won 2 cups on his bridge deal and signed long-term for less than Marner signed for originally.

Point has 2 cups, a 50 goal season, 3 90 point seasons, he’s a point per game in the playoffs, he was named as one of the first 7 to team Canada (Marchand was named over Marner) and has now taken Marner’s 1RW role next to McDavid. I wonder when we’ll hear complaints out of Tampa that he isn’t happy with his pay.

We’re about to history repeat itself: both organizations had a difficult decision to make with their aging stars (Stamkos and Tavares). Tampa made the right decision. Will Toronto?

 

[Torontonian]

You really think any professional organization would come out and say that in public? Those are internal discussions, that you, nor I would be privy to. To believe that such words would be uttered to the press is simply delusional. We have no idea what is said to players in practices, in meetings, or otherwise. We don't know to what degree there is internal accountability.

What do you mean? You don't think sports organizations like the Yankees are calling out Aaron Judge? Or the Lakers calling out Lebron or Luka?

When you're a top organization in the sports world like the Maples Leafs, Yankees, Lakers, Man United etc, you don't throw fuel onto the fire with the media like that, it's just stupid to do... What does it get you to call out people in the public other then a toxic work environment. Look at Vancouver this year, that locker room was a cease pool and organization was a tire fire with word getting out to the media about Pettersson and Miller.

This is a place where the team not raising their sticks to the fans went on for about a year of pure nonsense... Couldn't imagine how it would be if a player was called out openly in the media.

Anyways, we are roughly 18 days or so till the deadline, once the Four Nations tournament wraps up, hopefully the rumor mill starts to intensify.

Ideally 2 top 9 forwards and a depth d-man come to Toronto.

 

[Fogelhund]

I’d have re-signed Matthews but I would have traded Marner in 2019 and traded Willy in the summer of 2023. I also would not re-sign Tavares today.

What would those trades have looked like? I can’t say today. I proposed a Marner+Marleau for Makar+4OA in the summer or 2019 on the main boards and got crucified by Leafs fans for that.

Doing what you thought we should, may have made us worse.... we don't know.

I would have traded Marner during the summer for Wright, Bjorkstrand and their 1st. I don't know if Seattle would have done that, but I do believe they had a need for a top winger, with some star draw. I don't know if it would have made their season better, but they sure are struggling offensively. I think moving Marner would have increased the accountability.

Anyway, not making trades, or signing contracts isn't necessarily a sign of no accountability.... we just aren't privy to what happens behind closed doors.

What do you mean? You don't think sports organizations like the Yankees are calling out Aaron Judge? Or the Lakers calling out Lebron or Luka?

When you're a top organization in the sports world like the Maples Leafs, Yankees, Lakers, Man United etc, you don't throw fuel onto the fire with the media like that, it's just stupid to do... What does it get you to call out people in the public other then a toxic work environment. Look at Vancouver this year, that locker room was a cease pool and organization was a tire fire with word getting out to the media about Pettersson and Miller.

This is a place where the team not raising their sticks to the fans went on for about a year of pure nonsense... Couldn't imagine how it would be if a player was called out openly in the media.

Anyways, we are roughly 18 days or so till the deadline, once the Four Nations tournament wraps up, hopefully the rumor mill starts to intensify.

Ideally 2 top 9 forwards and a depth d-man come to Toronto.

I think we are agreeing... I'm not sure.

 

[Americanadian]

Doing what you thought we should, may have made us worse.... we don't know.

Would you rather what actually happened or the Leafs try something different and risk a different outcome over the last 8 years?

Anyway, not making trades, or signing contracts isn't necessarily a sign of no accountability.... we just aren't privy to what happens behind closed doors.

We are only privy to the contracts and the output and unfortunately it doesn't line up.

 

[thewave]

Would you rather what actually happened or the Leafs try something different and risk a different outcome over the last 8 years?

We are only privy to the contracts and the output and unfortunately it doesn't line up.

Look how many employees are at MLSE. There are 1000 voices and nobody wants to rock the boat. You can tell they are in a positive feedback loop.

Same seal claps all around for all the safe ideas.


Leafs need a smart competent dictator/general that fires almost everyone and installs their vision. No question full autonomy.

 

[Americanadian]

Leafs need a smart competent dictator/general that fires almost everyone and installs their vision. No question full autonomy.

I think they've had that all along with Shanahan. The vision just didn't work.

 

[thusk]

At this point probably Dumba for Domi. Dallas is familiar with Domi, Dumba has 1 year left after this and can play 3RD. Treliving loves players that used to be good. Same cap hit. I would hate to take on Dumba but the term on the contract makes the trade palatable. There’s a good chance he ends up on LTIR halfway through the season anyway. I’d prefer Lyubushkin but they like him in Dallas.

For Kampf (assuming an off-season move) I could see Chicago taking him for free or even in a trade for Kurashev or Reichel.



This broken salary structure is directly correlated to their on-ice failures unfortunately.

Yeah probably but trading everybody to try to fix salary structure will not solve anything. Dubas created it and now leafs need to live with, its the reality

Marner should have been 8.5 9 million dollars at most his number should have never been starting with a 10 I would trade marner 1 for 1 with jesper bratt I like his current cap hit for a too line winger

After a 94 pts season, 9,5M would be a good deal. Marner wqs 1 M, maybe 1,5M overpaid. But lif he would had to sign after covid19 started, not sure he would get the same contract, the same way player will sign contract in futur season considerating expectation for a salary cap raise like anticipate, 2018-2019 was the worst time to have player to extend. That's making those deal even worst than what they was in reality.

 

[Mugzy97]

Marner and Point were RFA’s at the same time. Point was a C with 41G/92P. Marner a W with 36G/94P. Point took a bridge deal at 6.75M and everyone said “Point will surpass Marner on his next contract, Leafs were smart to sign Marner longer term”. Now fast forward to today - Point won 2 cups on his bridge deal and signed long-term for less than Marner signed for originally.

Point has 2 cups, a 50 goal season, 3 90 point seasons, he’s a point per game in the playoffs, he was named as one of the first 7 to team Canada (Marchand was named over Marner) and has now taken Marner’s 1RW role next to McDavid. I wonder when we’ll hear complaints out of Tampa that he isn’t happy with his pay.

We’re about to history repeat itself: both organizations had a difficult decision to make with their aging stars (Stamkos and Tavares). Tampa made the right decision. Will Toronto?

Point's actual salary factoring in tax - $5,782,650 - 0.97P/GP
Marner's actual - $5,811,415 - 1.13 P/GP

They're not as far apart as you make them seem, and Marner has consistently higher points in his career and a much higher p/gp than Point, plays PK, while also being a year younger.

 

[Fogelhund]

Would you rather what actually happened or the Leafs try something different and risk a different outcome over the last 8 years?

We are only privy to the contracts and the output and unfortunately it doesn't line up.

What does it matter? I mean, we aren't living in the land of make belief, just reality.

 

[Americanadian]

Point's actual salary factoring in tax - $5,782,650 - 0.97P/GP
Marner's actual - $5,811,415 - 1.13 P/GP

They're not as far apart as you make them seem, and Marner has consistently higher points in his career and a much higher p/gp than Point, plays PK, while also being a year younger.

Point also plays C, scores more goals (which is more valuable), has a higher p/gp in the playoffs and has 2 cups. He scored more goals in each of his cup runs than Marner has in the playoffs in his career.

If you want to blame taxes for poor management then I can't help you. If the Leafs are expcted to pay a 20-30% premium on every contract then why does anyone expect them to win a cup?

What does it matter? I mean, we aren't living in the land of make belief, just reality.

You asked me what I would have done. In reality I'm not the GM, I'm just answering your question.

 

[thewave]

Point's actual salary factoring in tax - $5,782,650 - 0.97P/GP
Marner's actual - $5,811,415 - 1.13 P/GP

They're not as far apart as you make them seem, and Marner has consistently higher points in his career and a much higher p/gp than Point, plays PK, while also being a year younger.

Point is a point per game producer in the playoffs. A winner. Making less money and very close in regular season.

He is a better player period.

 

[arso40]

Point's actual salary factoring in tax - $5,782,650 - 0.97P/GP
Marner's actual - $5,811,415 - 1.13 P/GP

They're not as far apart as you make them seem, and Marner has consistently higher points in his career and a much higher p/gp than Point, plays PK, while also being a year younger.

And he’s a winger

 

[Mugzy97]

Point also plays C, scores more goals (which is more valuable), has a higher p/gp in the playoffs and has 2 cups. He scored more goals in each of his cup runs than Marner has in the playoffs in his career.

If you want to blame taxes for poor management then I can't help you. If the Leafs are expcted to pay a 20-30% premium on every contract then why does anyone expect them to win a cup?

I’m not blaming taxes for anything, just sharing facts. I don’t think management is as poor as some people on here believe and I think that this group can win together.

The cup isn’t something that Point won on his own. I think Marner is the more valuable player and his pay isn’t substantially higher than Point.

 

[Fogelhund]

You asked me what I would have done. In reality I'm not the GM, I'm just answering your question.

I think you have me confused with someone else.

 

[ULF_55]

We’re about to history repeat itself: both organizations had a difficult decision to make with their aging stars (Stamkos and Tavares). Tampa made the right decision. Will Toronto?

Tampa held their ground on Stamkos.
They could not agree on an amount.

Lightning GM explains decision to sign Guentzel but not Stamkos

The most shocking transaction in a day full of transactions across the NHL saw the Tampa Bay Lightning and captain Steven Stamkos split after 16 seasons.

www.sportsnet.ca

Tampa went to the market and signed a UFA for twice the amount they were offering Stamkos.

This seems reasonable for both of the Leafs UFA's.

If they cannot come to a mutually agreeable amount move on and go to market.

These players are just temp employees and will be replaced. They always are and the team always gets over it.

 

[Fogelhund]

We’re about to history repeat itself: both organizations had a difficult decision to make with their aging stars (Stamkos and Tavares). Tampa made the right decision. Will Toronto?

It should be clear, and apparent to anyone paying attention, Stamkos and Tavares are significantly different at this stage.

Stamkos is a severely declining player, who was fed by Kucherov, and is nearly a -40 the last two seasons. He is a disaster 5v5 and is mostly a PP merchant at this point. He is no longer useful as a C, and can barely skate.

Tavares has declined some, and his pay should reflect that. But he's good as a C, and is a positive 5v5.

Comparing these two is a bit extreme, as they aren't comparable. Stamkos signed for 5 years x $8 mil. Tavares won't sign for that term, or dollars. Meanwhile, Tavares is probably worth multiples of Stamkos at this point.. I mean, Stamkos is really worth... maybe $2 mil in a sheltered role... at best.

 

[thewave]

It should be clear, and apparent to anyone paying attention, Stamkos and Tavares are significantly different at this stage.

Stamkos is a severely declining player, who was fed by Kucherov, and is nearly a -40 the last two seasons. He is a disaster 5v5 and is mostly a PP merchant at this point. He is no longer useful as a C, and can barely skate.

Tavares has declined some, and his pay should reflect that. But he's good as a C, and is a positive 5v5.

Comparing these two is a bit extreme, as they aren't comparable. Stamkos signed for 5 years x $8 mil. Tavares won't sign for that term, or dollars. Meanwhile, Tavares is probably worth multiples of Stamkos at this point.. I mean, Stamkos is really worth... maybe $2 mil in a sheltered role... at best.

Consider this JTs last dig down year. He is going to be Stamkos next year pretty much for sure. It's a huge mistake to even bother

 

[Fogelhund]

Consider this JTs last dig down year. He is going to be Stamkos next year pretty much for sure. It's a huge mistake to even bother

Ya, he won't be close to as bad as Stamkos next year.... and by what means have you established this is his last dig down year?

 

[thewave]

Ya, he won't be close to as bad as Stamkos next year.... and by what means have you established this is his last dig down year?

He is slow now. It's his final contract. He was worse last year already. He is digging deep for that last contract.

 

[Fogelhund]

He is slow now. It's his final contract. He was worse last year already. He is digging deep for that last contract.

Is that what he told you, or are we just projecting here? Was that reported somewhere you could link to? Pretending the voices in your head are reality, isn't a good look. Maybe you haven't watched this year, he's been pretty good.

 

[Americanadian]

I think you have me confused with someone else.

This you?

Your solution was to just let Matthews go?

 

[thewave]

Is that what he told you, or are we just projecting here? Was that reported somewhere you could link to? Pretending the voices in your head are reality, isn't a good look. Maybe you haven't watched this year, he's been pretty good.

Gentlemens bet steep decline from JT in 2025 2026 season. The push for a contract is a given, it's millions of dollars at stake and goes without saying.

 

[Legion34]

Point also plays C, scores more goals (which is more valuable), has a higher p/gp in the playoffs and has 2 cups. He scored more goals in each of his cup runs than Marner has in the playoffs in his career.

If you want to blame taxes for poor management then I can't help you. If the Leafs are expcted to pay a 20-30% premium on every contract then why does anyone expect them to win a cup?


You asked me what I would have done. In reality I'm not the GM, I'm just answering your question.

The leafs don’t pay a 20-30% premium on every contract. Many have actually been right in line with performance in high tax markets. Comparing leafs contracts to no state tax contracts is silly.

Marner got overpaid. Most don’t really.

 

[Americanadian]

The leafs don’t pay a 20-30% premium on every contract. Many have actually been right in line with performance in high tax markets. Comparing leafs contracts to no state tax contracts is silly.

Marner got overpaid. Most don’t really.

Sorry I was just trying to understand how we should use taxes to judge contracts.

Why was Nylander paid 35% more than Forsberg, or 21% more than Tkachuk?