GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

[LeafChief]

Both Marner and JT need to be off this team by July 1st, 2025. You can't trade JT. That leaves Mitch.

I didn't say that Marner shouldn't be traded. I think that he probably should. What I said was that if there isn't a trade that makes sense, you don't just make the trade to make a trade.

That's how you end up looking back on the trade in 10 years and having a Forsberg for Erat situation.

What "makes sense" is different for each person. Some people think you have to get similar talent back. Some people think you can use the free cap space to make up the difference. Others think Marner is what ails the core's culture and needs to be removed.

Sure. The point remains that if you trade him, you have to make sure you get value back. Some of the proposals being posted in here are for players that won't be on the team in 1-2 years. Marner is a 90+ point player. Trading him for Dach + Evans for example is borderline mental.

I absolutely agree that some proposals in here are very weak and that we don't HAVE to trade Marner.

Having said this, we will "lose" any Marner trade and I believe we SHOULD trade him. In addition to whatever return we get for Marner, we have to consider the cap space and what we do with it as part of the return.

Further to this, I am really starting to believe that culturally there might be an addition by subtraction here. Mitch doesn't bring his game in the playoffs, he seems to struggle with fishbowl and media, and he may be a tough re-sign in a year.

I would much rather have Wright, Oleksiak and the cap space to sign Tanev or Roy. On top of this we do need to start making room for Cowan, Minten, Grebenkin and others.

Everything you have said here makes sense. I didn't suggest otherwise. The cap space is valuable. The culture change is needed. The roster needs to be far more balanced than it currently is.

The point remains, you only make the trade if it makes the team better. Forcing a Marner trade will historically look very poor and will not help the team.

 

[Dreakmur]

Sure. The point remains that if you trade him, you have to make sure you get value back. Some of the proposals being posted in here are for players that won't be on the team in 1-2 years. Marner is a 90+ point player. Trading him for Dach + Evans for example is borderline mental.

Again, some people think that simply getting rid of Marner has value.

Of course, you could keep him for 1 year, then lose him for nothing.... and wish you had Dach and Evans.....

 

[LeafChief]

Again, some people think that simply getting rid of Marner has value.

Of course, you could keep him for 1 year, then lose him for nothing.... and wish you had Dach and Evans.....

Those people would be very uneducated. And I'm saying that as being someone that thinks Marner should be moved.

 

[conFABulator]

Everything you have said here makes sense. I didn't suggest otherwise. The cap space is valuable. The culture change is needed. The roster needs to be far more balanced than it currently is.

The point remains, you only make the trade if it makes the team better. Forcing a Marner trade will historically look very poor and will not help the team.

Totally agree too. I wasn't countering your point, I was just saying that we can come out ahead even if we "lose" the trade

 

[Mickey Marner]

I'd prioritize Firkus or Rehkopf in a trade with Seattle over Wright. They've both been on a strong upward trajectory and were both second round picks, so we're not paying generational player hype tax like we would be with Wright.

 

[rumman]

You only trade Marner if the trade makes sense. It has to bring back young players that balance the lineup and fill multiple holes for multiple years. You don't trade a player the calibre of Marner just because.

Some of the proposals posted in this thread are ridiculously bad.

How much is one year of Marner worth exactly in your eyes?

 

[rumman]

What "makes sense" is different for each person. Some people think you have to get similar talent back. Some people think you can use the free cap space to make up the difference. Others think Marner is what ails the core's culture and needs to be removed.

Exactly, losing his cap hit is worth “losing” a trade, which if it makes the team better is a ridiculous position imo. One year of Marner isn’t going to return what many think, but there’s still value in trading him, not to mention if he’s open to a sign and trade……..

 

[Kiwi]

Individual sports and team sports are very different. Talent is a lot more important when you don’t have to worry about team dynamics.

You still need talent

 

[Gabriel426]

Exactly, losing his cap hit is worth “losing” a trade, which if it makes the team better is a ridiculous position imo. One year of Marner isn’t going to return what many think, but there’s still value in trading him, not to mention if he’s open to a sign and trade……..

Also this year got some good playoffs tested forwards that would help right away as long as Leafs got the Cap Space to sign them, such as Marchessault and Toffoli.

 

[Evilhomer]

Heiskenen is one of the top young defensemen in the world, he's a major reason Dallas is as good as they are

I think in a couple of years he will be one of the top defensemen in the league. My only issue with him right now is experience. He has had one stellar offensive season, but I think he needs to put a couple more together to reach the upper echelon on defensemen. That said, I have no doubt he will get there.

 

[thusk]

I absolutely agree that some proposals in here are very weak and that we don't HAVE to trade Marner.

Having said this, we will "lose" any Marner trade and I believe we SHOULD trade him. In addition to whatever return we get for Marner, we have to consider the cap space and what we do with it as part of the return.

Further to this, I am really starting to believe that culturally there might be an addition by subtraction here. Mitch doesn't bring his game in the playoffs, he seems to struggle with fishbowl and media, and he may be a tough re-sign in a year.

I would much rather have Wright, Oleksiak and the cap space to sign Tanev or Roy. On top of this we do need to start making room for Cowan, Minten, Grebenkin and others.

since 2016

last 3 playoff

leafs need absolutly to move tavares not marner

 

[ToneDog]

since 2016

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last 3 playoff
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leafs need absolutly to move tavares not marner

1 PPG in 57 games. LOL. Leafs need to move both. Marner is a must.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think in a couple of years he will be one of the top defensemen in the league. My only issue with him right now is experience. He has had one stellar offensive season, but I think he needs to put a couple more together to reach the upper echelon on defensemen. That said, I have no doubt he will get there.

He's probably like #3, 5 at worst.

Makar/Hughes/Fox/Josi catch all the headlines but I probably put it as

Makar
Hughes
Heiskanen
Fox
Josi

His defense is excellent.

 

[LaPlante94]

since 2016

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last 3 playoff
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leafs need absolutly to move tavares not marner

https://x.com/i/web/status/1784736927825944750

 

[Sypher04]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1784736927825944750

You know, I see this thrown around and first of all it’s an outright lie to act like Matthews doesn’t take plenty of criticism for his own playoff underperformance but there are reasons marner gets more that go beyond the on ice:

1) he’s a local kid. This shouldn’t matter but it does
2) the perception, correctly or not, that he is and has been the most egregiously overpaid of the core 4
3) his comments with the Toronto media
4) his agents comments after the Matthews deal and negotiation that took place in the media
5) even the bad taste left by the belief of his father’s meddling/driving of contacts talks gets dragged into it

I think Marner’s likability has taken the most hits in this city over the last 5 years and that’s why he’s a lightning rod. Deserved or not

 

[WillNy29]

There is a good chance that the team that wins the Cup this season isn't going to have the traditional elite number one defenseman that others have traditionally had. Dallas doesn't, Florida doesn't, Edmonton doesn't - then it's a question of whether Fox or Hughes fall into that category (hard to argue against Hughes). At least one or two of the guys on potential Cup winners are likely going to be Leafs next season (Montour, Zadorov and Tanev).

Miro Heisekanen?

 

[WillNy29]

Prefer a team where the cap is evenly distributed……

that's communism

 

[rumman]

that's communism

What a take, so stupid I’m speechless……..

 

[conFABulator]

since 2016

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last 3 playoff
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leafs need absolutly to move tavares not marner

That's not likely to happen though. When you attract a sought after free agent that comes here for what was understood to be a discount and he is a good player and your captain, you don't ask him to waive the NMC. We always knew the last year of it might be a bit ugly. You don't treat your captain this way IMO.

 

[conFABulator]

since 2016

View attachment 873010

last 3 playoff
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leafs need absolutly to move tavares not marner

 

[LaPlante94]

You know, I see this thrown around and first of all it’s an outright lie to act like Matthews doesn’t take plenty of criticism for his own playoff underperformance but there are reasons marner gets more that go beyond the on ice:

1) he’s a local kid. This shouldn’t matter but it does
2) the perception, correctly or not, that he is and has been the most egregiously overpaid of the core 4
3) his comments with the Toronto media
4) his agents comments after the Matthews deal and negotiation that took place in the media
5) even the bad taste left by the belief of his father’s meddling/driving of contacts talks gets dragged into it

I think Marner’s likability has taken the most hits in this city over the last 5 years and that’s why he’s a lightning rod. Deserved or not

I think the main difference between Matthews and Marner is Matthews is a 1C and those are much harder to find over a top line playmaking winger. The way some talk about Marner you'd think he was winning scoring titles and MVPs and all that stuff, especially with his contract demands.

 

[thusk]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1784736927825944750

You know, I see this thrown around and first of all it’s an outright lie to act like Matthews doesn’t take plenty of criticism for his own playoff underperformance but there are reasons marner gets more that go beyond the on ice:

1) he’s a local kid. This shouldn’t matter but it does
2) the perception, correctly or not, that he is and has been the most egregiously overpaid of the core 4
3) his comments with the Toronto media
4) his agents comments after the Matthews deal and negotiation that took place in the media
5) even the bad taste left by the belief of his father’s meddling/driving of contacts talks gets dragged into it

I think Marner’s likability has taken the most hits in this city over the last 5 years and that’s why he’s a lightning rod. Deserved or not

its good point but marner became leafs fan scapegoat.

trading marner... okay do it really change thing for the best? Marner still a point per game player in playoff playing toughest matchup amount all leafs player

next season with nylander salary raise. if he didn't play well 1st 3-4 game when he will start to play against tougher matchup, who do you thinking will become the marner 2.0 with target on his back for all leafs fail?

last 3 years
4-8 number of goal against tampa top 6
1-2 vs florida top 6
1-1 vs boston top 6

leafs when nylander was on the ice,scored 6 goal vs 11 against in 22 game against opposite top 6

marner
tampa 8-2
florida 1-4
boston top 6 2-2

leafs when marner was on the ice, scored 11 goal vs 8 against in 25 game against opposite top 6

it is possible if marner moving, than nylander will just becoming worst next playoff playing more vs top 6 and less against 3/4th line? If its the case like i think it will, the same exact story will restart with nylander unstead of marner...

 

[thusk]

That's not likely to happen though. When you attract a sought after free agent that comes here for what was understood to be a discount and he is a good player and your captain, you don't ask him to waive the NMC. We always knew the last year of it might be a bit ugly. You don't treat your captain this way IMO.

1- he can be a captain or whatever, hockey is a business and ots not treliving guy, it was dubas guy. Right now tavares is nothing else than an handicap for the leafs, he win 11 M and hes worst than Domi at 3M, that's the reality. So if leafs can fond a way with him to find something where everyone can be happy, they need to so it.

If toronto moving marner but keeping tavares whatever what they doing, i dont think they will be better.

2- go ask to NYI, Carolina, washington or even toronto this season if they think game 1 to 3 or 1 to 4 are more important than game 5-6-7. Thats exactly where they lost the series

3- you watch last 3 game vs boston 6 of 8 ( didnt count the goal at 0.1 when game was over) was result of a fortunate bounce. The 2 only goal who was not result of a lucky bounce is the mccabe screen goal and the breakway nylander goal when Boston forcing the play to tie it, thats it. Did thatbreally making worst because you didn't had that bounde on your side?

 

[TMLAM34]

I wonder if Tavares would be willing to waive for Columbus, outside of Boston you’d think they’re the next desperate for a center. Johnson seems like the odd man out looking in so I wonder if there could be something around Tavares for Johnson?

 

[conFABulator]

1- he can be a captain or whatever, hockey is a business and ots not treliving guy, it was dubas guy. Right now tavares is nothing else than an handicap for the leafs, he win 11 M and hes worst than Domi at 3M, that's the reality. So if leafs can fond a way with him to find something where everyone can be happy, they need to so it.

If toronto moving marner but keeping tavares whatever what they doing, i dont think they will be better.

2- go ask to NYI, Carolina, washington or even toronto this season if they think game 1 to 3 or 1 to 4 are more important than game 5-6-7. Thats exactly where they lost the series

3- you watch last 3 game vs boston 6 of 8 ( didnt count the goal at 0.1 when game was over) was result of a fortunate bounce. The 2 only goal who was not result of a lucky bounce is the mccabe screen goal and the breakway nylander goal when Boston forcing the play to tie it, thats it. Did thatbreally making worst because you didn't had that bounde on your side?

Yes, it is a business. In that business you want to attract and retain top talent. That talent sees how you treat your players. Giving a player the C and NMC clause and the pressuring them to waive it is not a good business move.

You get much more for Marner in a deal than you would for Tavares. I would choose to move Marner. I also feel like he is a negative contributor to culture here.

You post his playoff stats. I countered with a breakdown of early vs later in the series. His stats drop the most of the core four as the game become more meaningful. JT's actually get better in the back half of series.