GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

[Albz]

And he chokes again in the playoffs, rinse and repeat.

I mean looks like mcdavid is choking in the finals. I guess oilers should dumb him. They should also threaten him and send him msgs and shyt right. This why canadian markets are toxic

 

[Mess]

Contract status mattered here.. Hubs, like Marner, had 1 year until UFA. Tkachuk was controlled as an RFA.

True but we're in the similar spot here where Mitch now on an expiring contract (like Huberdeau), but on a Marner working with Leafs organization on a sign and trade (would then be more like Tkachuk) in regards to much larger expected return.

On a sign and trade I expect more of top 4 Dman (roster player) + top prospect & 1st round pick where would be missing the scoring forward Huderdeau (Marner replacement).

When using the former Tkachuk trade as a template. The Tkachuk (power-forward ability) is missing from Leafs equation.

 

[JKG33]

Difference is Florida got the best player in the deal, they were the one trading multiple pieces. We’re on the other end from every proposal I’ve seen.

Marner, Rielly, 1st for Draisaitl

Agreed even though Huberdeau was a 115 point forward (2nd overall) on a President's trophy regular season team, its Matthew Tkachuk a power-forward that is making Florida a playoff Cup contending team.

Calgary even needed to toss in at top 4 Dman MacKenzie Weegar & prospect Cole Schwindt & a conditional 2025 first-round pick,.

View attachment 882719

Since Treliving pulled this trade off it would be interesting to know if Leaf fans see Marner as Huberdeau, or if they see him rather as Tkachuk, and would expect to get a similar ie. scoring forward, top 4 Dman, prospect & 1st round pick in return if he traded Mitch and he is quality for quantity trade,

Marner is unquestionably the Huberdeau in that kind of trade

 

[Americanadian]

That's such a vague statement. I don't even know what that means. None of the guys fall into either category.

It's like saying Justin Holl is a top pair defenceman and Alex Kerfoot is a swiss army knife.

By the way, ELC players sometimes offer 500-1000% value.

Obviously you misinterpreted my statement. Give me 3 depth players performing as 5M players at a 3M cap hit over 1 10M player performing at 9M.

Marner, Rielly, 1st for Draisaitl

The Leafs version of the Tkachuk trade would be McCabe, Marner, 1st for Dobson.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

I have no clue what our defense-corp will be next year.

I'd think you could re-sign Lilly for cheap on a 1 year deal. He won't be happy but he could probably be retained for 2.1M or something.

Edmundson/Lyubushkin - Perhaps 1 returns

We likely sign one of the UFA defensemen available. If we regrettably keep Marner, we have very little cap to acquire more than 1 UFA of substance.

 

[JKG33]

The Leafs version of the Tkachuk trade would be McCabe, Marner, 1st for Dobson.

Swap in Lijegren instead and I take that deal for the Leafs

 

[Americanadian]

Swap in Lijegren instead and I take that deal for the Leafs

Obviously yes. I view McCabe as closer to Weegar. Both established top 4 defenders 1 year from UFA.

 

[I am Canadian]

I would try and get Kakko out of the NYR for a one year punt.

If leafs are running it back might as well go for some low risk high reward moves to see if they work out.

 

[Brobust]

Obviously you misinterpreted my statement. Give me 3 depth players performing as 5M players at a 3M cap hit over 1 10M player performing at 9M.


The Leafs version of the Tkachuk trade would be McCabe, Marner, 1st for Dobson.

That's exactly how I finally decided to interpret it. There's a reason Kerfoot and Holl finished their contracts here.

The leafs are in no position to make their version of the Tkachuk. At least not until some younger players and complementary players have properly established themselves. I've set my sights quite low on Marner so I'd be happy with a Brock Faber and Liam Ohgren.

 

[Americanadian]

That's exactly how I finally decided to interpret it. There's a reason Kerfoot and Holl finished their contracts here.

The leafs are in no position to make their version of the Tkachuk. At least not until some younger players and complementary players have properly established themselves. I've set my sights quite low on Marner so I'd be happy with a Brock Faber and Liam Ohgren.

Kerfoot and Holl both had very good years with the leafs but I wouldn’t say either outperformed their contracts on the whole.

Who is the current Faber that’s available?

 

[SprDaVE]

The Marner situation is such a distraction.

All the available trades and signings and potential teams look so much better with his money off the books.

I heard Friedman yesterday states the Leafs wanted, a solid goalie, to bring back Bertuzzi and Domi and get 2 good defenceman.

I like that A LOT,

This is possible if Marner is traded
Its impossible if he isn't.

It's very possible to do that without trading Marner. Leafs have 18M of cap space right now. There are other players and assets to trade to create a little more cap space.

 

[CincoHolio]

Florida is proof you should be trading for the best player available and not giving up the best player available in the deal.

Toronto is going to need to have a top 4 right shot d-man and a 2nd line center in any trade that will make them be any sort of "winner" in a Marner trade, and make good moves with whatever remain cap they have left.

Difference being, the Leafs still have 2 players as good as or better than Marner still on long term contracts. We don't need a superstar back where Florida & Calgary were dealing from an area of weakness, the Leafs are dealing from an area of strength.

 

[Brobust]

Kerfoot and Holl both had very good years with the leafs but I wouldn’t say either outperformed their contracts on the whole.

Who is the current Faber that’s available?

Faber was a 2nd round pick. The only reason I liked that trade for Minnesota at the time, even though they were hamstrung, was because I tuned in to watch Matthew Knies and was more impressed with Faber. But I don't normally track prospects, so I can't answer that question.

I'll have to keep it vague and say Marner for at least two guys that Wes Clark loves.

I've also proposed Nazar + Vlasic on here before, which is like an upgraded version of that trade.

Difference being, the Leafs still have 2 players as good as or better than Marner still on long term contracts. We don't need a superstar back where Florida & Calgary were dealing from an area of weakness, the Leafs are dealing from an area of strength.

Sorry, but Marner is clearly the 2nd best player on the team. I know people are mad, but he's the guy the team has always turned to when a line is struggling.

 

[Torontonian]

Difference being, the Leafs still have 2 players as good as or better than Marner still on long term contracts. We don't need a superstar back where Florida & Calgary were dealing from an area of weakness, the Leafs are dealing from an area of strength.

Well yes, Toronto is in a better situation then FLA/CAL, it doesn't mean that they should trade a top line winger for pennies on the dollar because of that, or settling for a mediocre return.

Toronto needs to set it's sights on a top 4 dman and a 2nd line centerman at the very least.

 

[CincoHolio]

Sorry, but Marner is clearly the 2nd best player on the team. I know people are mad, but he's the guy the team has always turned to when a line is struggling.

No need to apologize for your opinion, we're all entitled to them. I don't know about people, but my statement was not made out of anger. The things Marner can do for this team are not the things this team needs at his price point. I'd rather have a Bennett and a Montour over a Marner on a team that already has a Nylander and a Matthews.

 

[Legion34]

Right but Marner isn't anywhere near the playoff player that Eichel and Tkachuk are.

At the time of each trade. Tkachuk was a playoff bust and eichel had 0 playoff games.

 

[CincoHolio]

Well yes, Toronto is in a better situation then FLA/CAL, it doesn't mean that they should trade a top line winger for pennies on the dollar because of that, or settling for a mediocre return.

Toronto needs to set it's sights on a top 4 dman and a 2nd line centerman at the very least

Are a top 4 D and a 2nd line centreman the "best" players in a Marner trade?? that's all I was disagreeing with in your statement.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Agreed even though Huberdeau was a 115 point forward (2nd overall) on a President's trophy regular season team, its Matthew Tkachuk a power-forward that is making Florida a playoff Cup contending team.

Calgary even needed to toss in at top 4 Dman MacKenzie Weegar & prospect Cole Schwindt & a conditional 2025 first-round pick,.

View attachment 882719

Since Treliving pulled this trade off it would be interesting to know if Leaf fans see Marner as Huberdeau, or if they see him rather as Tkachuk, and would expect to get a similar ie. scoring forward, top 4 Dman, prospect & 1st round pick in return if he traded Mitch and he is quality for quantity trade,

It's an interesting topic for discussion, but it's so hard to even predict who might be traded with Marner (a draft pick, another player), the upward trend in the team they are trading with (FLA had many good players in place before Tkachuk), and then the impact Marner/new Leafs will have.

My problem is Shanny and the fact that he's still here. He might suggest Tre keep going with the "win now" push. If so, Tre will no doubt lose this trade.

They need to use Marner to re-tool.

Toronto has no defense (not the quality type to go deep in the playoffs), diminishing prospect pool due to Dubas trading so many 1st round picks, no goaltending, no top 6 forwards who can play a heavy forecheck/puck retrieval, no draft picks, etc.

Shanny has been blind to see his own plan being ignored. He promised a competitive team and sustained success. Tre should not be trading with a win now attitude.

 

[CincoHolio]

I would try and get Kakko out of the NYR for a one year punt.

If leafs are running it back might as well go for some low risk high reward moves to see if they work out.

just re-signed for 1 year

 

[thusk]

Right but Marner isn't anywhere near the playoff player that Eichel and Tkachuk are.

Before florida what did Tkachuk really did in playoff more than marner? 7 goal 8 assist in 27 games...

Tkachuk was the right player for the very agressive system Maurice bring in Florida and worked pretty well together, doesn't mean in a different style of system than he would have same kind of succes.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Before florida what did Tkachuk really did in playoff more than marner? 7 goal 8 assist in 27 games...

Tkachuk was the right player for the very agressive system Maurice bring in Florida and worked pretty well together, doesn't mean in a different style of system than he would have same kind of succes.

I'm not sure how this argument is supportive of the Leafs to keep Marner.

Tkachuk is about to win a cup. What does it matter what he did in his 27 playoff games? What has Marner done in 8 years? What have the Leafs done?

Tkachuk and Eichel are incredible. We haven't made a single notable roster change.

 

[rumman]

I mean looks like mcdavid is choking in the finals. I guess oilers should dumb him. They should also threaten him and send him msgs and shyt right. This why canadian markets are toxic

I’d say Bob’s been stonewalling the entire Oilers team thus far, they’ve had more than their fair share of good scoring chances, Bob’s definitely been the difference in the series so far………

Marner, Rielly, 1st for Draisaitl


Marner is unquestionably the Huberdeau in that kind of trade

Marner’s a regular season stud, playoff season dud, the comparison isn’t accurate imo………

 

[JKG33]

Marner’s a regular season stud, playoff season dud, the comparison isn’t accurate imo………

That's exactly why Huberdeau was traded

What i said, put Marner in a system where Marner will be able to exploit his strenght and you will get the best of him. The biggest change Flrorida did fron 2022 to 2023 is not Tkachuk, it's Paul Maurice who finally bring an identity to this team and they found their identity after second half of season. That's why they finally been able to get succes in playoff. Under Maurice florida become one of best defensive team after being one of worst previous 5 and it's started with Maurice, not Tkachuk. The playoff leader of this team is not Tkachuk, it's Barkov and Florida started to have succes the moment they accepted to play as a team the Barkov way.

Personally you will ask me what are leafs identity right now and honestly i dont have any kind of idea. The 1st step is to create an identity to this team, something Dubas/Keefe failed.

put Marner in a system where the leafs will play fast and be really active, create yourself more space by creating more turnover or mistake and he will be better, no doubt about it.

You can't honestly think that Florida would be where they are with Huberdeau instead of Tkachuk though do you?

 

[Brobust]

3rd liners producing at 150% value>top of the lineup players producing at 90% value.

Especially when you can get 2/3 for 1.

Obviously you misinterpreted my statement. Give me 3 depth players performing as 5M players at a 3M cap hit over 1 10M player performing at 9M.


The Leafs version of the Tkachuk trade would be McCabe, Marner, 1st for Dobson.

To be clear, your concept is fine. The players you target is what I have an issue with.

A great example of a player pick ups like this are Colorado trading for Arturri Lehkonen, Florida trading for Bennett and Montour. I don't think Nic Roy, Korczak are those guys. Even if they were, consider the cost Colorado paid for Lehkonen and what you're willing to pay for them.

 

[rumman]

""


Barkov has been incredible too... probably more important than Tkachuk.... but they've all performed when needed.

They play like a team, no free riders allowed. And yes Barkov has been a stud………