GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

[rumman]

Are you referring to the $6.9mm player?

People keep lumping in the 6.9 guy with the double digits. I think it is just brainwashing by the social media, where if you keep repeating the same misinformation people believe it.

AI will take care of that ... it lies better.

I see your point, enjoy this summer because that argument won’t work come September…….

It does not.... ownership isn't the problem. The problem is having bet on elite highly paid talents, who don't know how to win when it counts. That's it.

""

I’m blaming everyone from ownership to to the training staff, loser organization from top to bottom……..

 

[Americanadian]

I love Woll, he's an extremely talented goalie, but he holds about 0 value to a team like St. Louis. They have their heir in Hofer, and teams rarely go with two inexperienced young goalies. Woll is older sure, but he's not reliable enough to "insulate" a younger goalie. They'd be looking to bring in a reliable vet to pair with Hofer.

I'd still love to get Binnington, but for the Leafs I'd love to partner him with Woll. Lightens Woll's workload in hopes he can stay healthy, and basically guarantees good goaltending every night between the two.

I envisioned a Woll/Hofer tandem. Historically the double unproven goalie tandem hasn't worked so I agree with you. For what it's worth I proposed this 1 for 1 on the main boards and the sentiment from the minute number of St. Louis fans that responded was they would pull the trigger on this deal.

 

[Stephen]

Mirtle was reporting Joshua would have interest in returning to the Leafs. I would be interesting in adding him in lieu of a Bertuzzi re-signing, assuming it’s more cost effective.

 

[JKG33]

I envisioned a Woll/Hofer tandem. Historically the double unproven goalie tandem hasn't worked so I agree with you. For what it's worth I proposed this 1 for 1 on the main boards and the sentiment from the minute number of St. Louis fans that responded was they would pull the trigger on this deal.

Yea I'm not shocked the fans like it. They love tryna get every home town guy they can. Keller, Tkachuk, it's no surprise they love the idea of Woll.

I just can't see an NHL GM putting his eggs in that kind of tandem. It's also one of the many reasons I hated the Samsonov/Woll tandem. Having two young goalies who think they're the starter isn't good for anyone's development. Goalie situations always work better when the guys know their place.

Vegas pulled it off last year cause Hill was the the best healthy goalie. This year having both guys didn't workout

Mirtle was reporting Joshua would have interest in returning to the Leafs. I would be interesting in adding him in lieu of a Bertuzzi re-signing, assuming it’s more cost effective.

I like Joshua, but this has all the makings of a brutal overpay

 

[rumman]

I like Joshua, but this has all the makings of a brutal overpay

This applies to like 90% of the players they sign imo………

 

[Stephen]

It does not.... ownership isn't the problem. The problem is having bet on elite highly paid talents, who don't know how to win when it counts. That's it.

""

If Matthews took his Hart, Lindsay, Byng, Selke and Rocket level performance and was able to translate like 75% of that into the playoffs, we’d win a lot more playoff series…

Imagine if the regular season was a runway for playoff success instead of a diving board for playoff failure. That’s the reason for the relative apathy here.

 

[Stephen]

I like Joshua, but this has all the makings of a brutal overpay

Yeah it’s possible but on the other hand we are dying for any semblance of a middle class with term that can grow in place over 2-4 years and feel some ownership in being a Leaf vs a mercenary on a bet on yourself cash out deal.

Not saying we gotta have Joshua at any price but we really don’t have those Verhaeghe, Marchment guys who can just play their top 9 to middle 6 and get better year over year.

 

[JKG33]

This applies to like 90% of the players they sign imo………

I mean it does, but Joshua especially is a career nobody that's had a good maybe 1.5 seasons and is likely about to get paid like a 2nd liner. This'll be a Mikheyev/Bunting type of bad contract.

As good as he'd look on Matthews wing, there's cheaper guys you can get for that role

Yeah it’s possible but on the other hand we are dying for any semblance of a middle class with term that can grow in place over 2-4 years and feel some ownership in being a Leaf vs a mercenary on a bet on yourself cash out deal.

Not saying we gotta have Joshua at any price but we really don’t have those Verhaeghe, Marchment guys who can just play their top 9 to middle 6 and get better year over year.

I'm just not putting a tonne of priority on paying forwards. The core 4 are paid enough, they can figure out how to elevate some lesser players.

I'm spending money on defence and goaltending and building from the net out. That's a lot more likely to lead to a team that for the first time in over 20 years in Leafland, is greater than the sum of its parts.

 

[Trapper]

If Matthews took his Hart, Lindsay, Byng, Selke and Rocket level performance and was able to translate like 75% of that into the playoffs, we’d win a lot more playoff series…

Imagine if the regular season was a runway for playoff success instead of a diving board for playoff failure. That’s the reason for the relative apathy here.

That’s the difference between regular season and playoffs.
If not, they would just give the Cup to the Presidents Trophy winner.
And I think the best team in the league (regular season) usually loses more than wins the trophy.

 

[Fogelhund]

I’m blaming everyone from ownership to to the training staff, loser organization from top to bottom……..

AH yes... aimlessly being mad at everything, without any compelling rationale or evidence... the margins between winning, and not... is small.

 

[ACC1224]

AH yes... aimlessly being mad at everything, without any compelling rationale or evidence... the margins between winning, and not... is small.

I don't know why anyone would blame ownership. All they do is pour money into the team and stay out of the way of the hockey people.

 

[Fogelhund]

Yeah it’s possible but on the other hand we are dying for any semblance of a middle class with term that can grow in place over 2-4 years and feel some ownership in being a Leaf vs a mercenary on a bet on yourself cash out deal.

Not saying we gotta have Joshua at any price but we really don’t have those Verhaeghe, Marchment guys who can just play their top 9 to middle 6 and get better year over year.

Knies, McMann, Robertson, Cowen, Minten, Grebyonkin.. maybe Domi, plus Nylander and that's SEVEN wingers, for SIX top 9 winger spots.... plus a middle six potential C.

If anything, middle six wingers are the last thing we should be going out and spending UFA money on.

D, C's... goaltending.. sure, but a top nine winger???

 

[Tony Romo]

I didn't say they did. I said they make ruthless business decisions. Which they do.

Okay, what's a similar ruthless business decision they have made that is similar to giving someone a max extension, with a NMC clause basically saying yeah you're here for the next 8 years and then 8 months later asking them to waive it so they can trade them?

not all ruthless business decisions are similar and have similar impacts.

 

[Stephen]

Knies, McMann, Robertson, Cowen, Minten, Grebyonkin.. maybe Domi, plus Nylander and that's SEVEN wingers, for SIX top 9 winger spots.... plus a middle six potential C.

If anything, middle six wingers are the last thing we should be going out and spending UFA money on.

D, C's... goaltending.. sure, but a top nine winger???

Cowan, Minten and Grebyonkin can’t all be promoted to Leafs jobs this fall. That volume of youth is not really feasible especially considering how little AHL time if any that group has collectively seen.

 

[Americanadian]

Yeah it’s possible but on the other hand we are dying for any semblance of a middle class with term that can grow in place over 2-4 years and feel some ownership in being a Leaf vs a mercenary on a bet on yourself cash out deal.

Not saying we gotta have Joshua at any price but we really don’t have those Verhaeghe, Marchment guys who can just play their top 9 to middle 6 and get better year over year.

Having a real contributing 3rd line would be awesome. Joshua's most common line mate this season was Garland and they were dominant together. I'd look at acquiring both and sticking to what works and having a dominant 3rd line.

 

[Menzinger]

I keep hearing this argument over and over, but shouldn’t a 11mil player be able to drive his own line? If they can’t drive their own line they shouldn’t be paid as elite talent imo…….

A player can drive a line, but that doesn't mean other players on the on the line can't still drag things down.

Like if they stapled say Reaves to Matthews, Austin would obviously still be the focal point of the line and would put up strong numbers, but they'd be lesser than if he was with Marner.

 

[Americanadian]

Okay, what's a similar ruthless business decision they have made that is similar to giving someone a max extension, with a NMC clause basically saying yeah you're here for the next 8 years and then 8 months later asking them to waive it so they can trade them?

not all ruthless business decisions are similar and have similar impacts.

Tampa gave McDonagh a deal with a full NTC and moved off him. VGK moved off Stastny one season after signing him as a UFA with a NTC. They moved off Fleury with a NTC on a contract they signed. They moved off Pacioretty with a NTC on a contract they signed. They moved off Smith with a NTC on a contract they signed.

 

[JKG33]

Having a real contributing 3rd line would be awesome. Joshua's most common line mate this season was Garland and they were dominant together. I'd look at acquiring both and sticking to what works and having a dominant 3rd line.

It would be nice, but more importantly they need a C for that line. Or if that C is Tavares, they need a 2C.

I wish Nylander could earn his money as a 2C

 

[Fogelhund]

Cowan, Minten and Grebyonkin can’t all be promoted to Leafs jobs this fall. That volume of youth is not really feasible especially considering how little AHL time if any that group has collectively seen.

Of course not... but then we've also got Jarnkrok, Holmberg and I didn't even mention Marner...

So, currently, if we sign all of our RFA's... we've got Nylander, Marner, Knies, McMann, Jarnkrok, Holmberg, Robertson... and interest in Domi and Bertuzzi back.... plus, Cowan and Grebyonkin...

Now, there will be changes, and maybe the opportunity to bring in a body, depending on who is signed, who isn't... I'll assume Domi is back, Bertuzzi isn't... that's still TEN people, competing for SIX top nine winger spots.

We have far more potential bodies, than we have spots. That's just the reality of the situation. Spending $4 mil on a flash in the pan winger... when we have needs at D, G, and C... seems silly.

This is just not an area that we should be focusing on... I mean... there could be changes in bodies traded out...but it's only going to be a couple at the most...

I mean, if we trade out Marner... are we better signing Kane to replace him at $4 mil, or Joshua Dakota at the same price....

 

[Menzinger]

Mirtle was reporting Joshua would have interest in returning to the Leafs. I would be interesting in adding him in lieu of a Bertuzzi re-signing, assuming it’s more cost effective.

I suspect Tre is going to double down on Burt

Or make it much worse…. Like the Ballard era , or everything Senators.

I suspect folks tend to project their own feelings/beliefs onto individual owners and just assume they're going to do what they would do. They don't think about them cutting payroll because their other business ventures run into trouble and need to save cash, or ordering certain contracts be given out because it's their kids, favorite player, etc.

I hardly love a faceless corporate owner, but at minimum they're willing to put money into the team without question

 

[Americanadian]

It would be nice, but more importantly they need a C for that line. Or if that C is Tavares, they need a 2C.

I wish Nylander could earn his money as a 2C

I am very anti Nylander-Tavares as a duo but I would love a forward lineup like:

Domi-Matthews-Bertuzzi
Knies-Tavares-Nylander
Joshua-X-Garland
McMann-Dewar-Reaves/Holmberg

Where X is one of Tomasino/Drury/Cates/McBain that you get by trading any combination of Robertson/Liljegren/Jarnkrok.

 

[JKG33]

I am very anti Nylander-Tavares as a duo but I would love a forward lineup like:

Domi-Matthews-Bertuzzi
Knies-Tavares-Nylander
Joshua-X-Garland
McMann-Dewar-Reaves/Holmberg

Where X is one of Tomasino/Drury/Cates/McBain that you get by trading any combination of Robertson/Liljegren/Jarnkrok.

I realize Marner is gone, but can you realistically have all of Bert, Domi, Joshua, Garland while still having cap space for upgraded defence and goaltending?

 

[Fogelhund]

I realize Marner is gone, but can you realistically have all of Bert, Domi, Joshua, Garland while still having cap space for upgraded defence and goaltending?

. no, that isn't possible...and sticking McMann on the 4th line, when he's proven he can play higher up, at a reasonable price.....

 

[notdoneyet]

Willie stepped up but that’s more comparison with the other three than McD and Drai level.
Not so sure about the others, I know AM did in Game 2 this past series.
JT and MM had moments but they are not paid for a moment here and there.

I really don’t think the supporting cast can be as strong as the team that won the Series. Unless all our youths become great players at the same time.

At the end of the day, having the best players in the series will most often help the team win the series.

We never truly had that. Quite disappointing that AM always get shut down by Cs making half his salary.
MM always seem useless as the series gets deeper or just choke in the past two playoffs series.
JT is a lost cause, he should go back to Hockey Schools to learn lessons instead of playing for the Leafs.
Willie needs to show up from the first minute of the series instead of waiting for a bad play and then wake up and play great in the series.

You complain about Willy jt mm not scoring in the playoffs but our 69 goal superstar has shit the bed as bad or worse than the other three.

 

[JKG33]

. no, that isn't possible...and sticking McMann on the 4th line, when he's proven he can play higher up, at a reasonable price.....

Yup. I'm sticking Matthews with the cheapest talent I can find. If Marner is moved with his cap and assets going to defence, I'm looking at a lineup of...

McMann-Matthews-x
Knies-Domi-Nylander
x-Tavares-x

Those x's can be a mix of cheap-ish UFAs and young call ups