GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

[Brobust]

There is too much faith in MM bc if he can’t, we are essentially stuck with three 11mil plus players. Nomatter how high the cap goes up, we will always not have a balance line up that can win the Cup.
The fact that this group only have ONE round of victory in the past 8 yrs just showed they can’t do it collectively and the MGT betted on the wrong horses. To continue betting on them to get it done is quite foolish.
Leafs winning the Cup is different than making the Core win the Cup for the Leafs.

It's nowhere as dire as you make it sound. Even at $12M, Marner would be an incredible asset to the team. What the original management group envisioned is finally about to happen. The cap will be at $100M by 2028. Meaning they can add and create a more balanced team even with the original core 3 still part of the lineup.

We once dreamt of being the next Blackhawks. Management must now pivot and try to maintain the current talent while focusing on younger talent like the Stars. I'm ok with trading anyone as long as it meets this new objective. The core is now the vet group and they have to find our Robertsons, Hintzs and Wyatt Johnstons. It may take some time but that should be the focus.

Being the most profitable and resource rich team in the NHL, this should have always been the focus.

^100% this. If all 4 of the big forwards are staying, not a cent more on the supporting cast up front. Ride with the young guys we have internally. They need to upgrade on defence and goaltending.

As long as they're given the leash to succeed. You cannot rely on Cowan/Minten as everyday contributors. You need to have them on the roster and give them room to grow throughout the season.

 

[Gabriel426]

He's correct in a way. I'm relatively confident in Knies and McMann as supporting LWs.

My issue is that either of Nylander or Marner has to carry their own line.

So if its:

McMann - Matthews - x
Knies - Tavares - Marner/Nylander
x - Domi - Marner/Nylander

That's a top 9 that's competitive with contenders depending on who those x-players are. If they are able to fill those spots with Mantha and Sprong. I would be comfortable.

Not that I don’t like your optimism but to pencil in McMann as 1LW?
JT will only be worse than he was last season as he still believe he is learning lessons instead of just go out there and get it done.
MM will light it up in the regular season but his mental game will cause him to choke like this past playoffs. As I am 100% certain, he knows if he dominated this past playoffs, he will be getting his 100Mil extension on July 1.
To me:
Trade MM, JT, Calle and Kampf
Replace them with Keller and Bjudstad. Then sign Marchessault and Lindholm
To me signing Marchessult is a must as he is just clutch and always play a chip on his shoulder. We need players like that.

 

[Brobust]

So Mantha, a guy who has been scratched many times and is a known head case, and Sprong are going to solve our scoring woes? Those guys have ONE PLAYOFF GOAL BETWEEN THEM IN THEIR ENTIRE CAREERS! ONE! IN 27 FREAKING COMBINED GAMES!

Sorry I don't buy it.

I like angry Mantha. He reminds me of prime Jamie Benn when he plays mad. Sprong is an offence only guy who hasn't stuck with any one team.

Using the Panthers as a template, some of their main complementary guys have been cast offs or guys who have been gotten cheaply.

 

[Gabriel426]

It's nowhere as dire as you make it sound. Even at $12M, Marner would be an incredible asset to the team. What the original management group envisioned is finally about to happen. The cap will be at $100M by 2028. Meaning they can add and create a more balanced team even with the original core 3 still part of the lineup.

We once dreamt of being the next Blackhawks. Management must now pivot and try to maintain the current talent while focusing on younger talent like the Stars. I'm ok with trading anyone as long as it meets this new objective. The core is now the vet group and they have to find our Robertsons, Hintzs and Wyatt Johnstons. It may take some time but that should be the focus.

Being the most profitable and resource rich team in the NHL, this should have always been the focus.



As long as they're given the leash to succeed. You cannot rely on Cowan/Minten as everyday contributors. You need to have them on the roster and give them room to grow throughout the season.

I think the difference is that you still believe our Core guys are Alphas where I think they are a whole bunch of Betas.
Willie seemed to be the only one that looks like he has the mental fortitude to be an alpha but I wouldn’t bet on him taking that role.
That’s why I think it’s best to surround them with guys like Marchessault that will take charge in playoffs and let AM and Willie to just do their thing much like what Vegas did with Eichel.
Can’t do that with three 11mil plus players esp since none of them are alphas.

 

[Brobust]

Not that I don’t like your optimism but to pencil in McMann as 1LW?
JT will only be worse than he was last season as he still believe he is learning lessons instead of just go out there and get it done.
MM will light it up in the regular season but his mental game will cause him to choke like this past playoffs. As I am 100% certain, he knows if he dominated this past playoffs, he will be getting his 100Mil extension on July 1.
To me:
Trade MM, JT, Calle and Kampf
Replace them with Keller and Bjudstad. Then sign Marchessault and Lindholm
To me signing Marchessult is a must as he is just clutch and always play a chip on his shoulder. We need players like that.

I'm not being optmistic. The point of paying guys $10M+ is that they carry their own line. I like the idea of McMann either with Matthews or Marner. It makes a ton of sense.

I am not a JT fan at his current contract, but I'll accept that he's not going anywhere. So he's a one year issue.

On Marner, I will always be a believer. I remeber Mitch from the beginning and he has increible playoff potential. It's been so long and I accept that people may have lost faith but I just can't. This is the kid I dreamt my team would draft for years. They finally got him and somehow f***ed it up.

I'm really worried that the long term fate of this franchise may be destroyed because of bad PR and a series where they just had some dogshit injury luck. Any other team would look at two star players getting 'concussion consistent symptoms' right around the playoffs as an awful poker hand.

 

[TimeZone]

Leafs dont need anything offensively

they can easily start next season with
Knies-Matthews-Nylander
Cowan/Mcmann-Tavares-Marner
Mcmann/Cowan-Holmerg/-Robertson
Dewar-Kampf-Reaes or jarnkrok.

and it's will still a great foward group...I don't know where leafs should really need foward, sorry.

18M available to resign robertson and bring in cowan, so stay 16 for 2 dmen and 1 goalie... an average of 5.3M by player. Probably enough to sign exemple Skjei and tanev+ a pretty good goalie

so rielly-Tanev
Skjei-Mccabe
Benoit-Timmins or someone else

Woll ???

How many f***ing times do you need to see this loser forward group fail miserably to produce goals in the playoffs before you admit you're wrong?

The f***ing team has produced more than two goals ONCE in their last FOURTEEN Playoff games.

 

[Kiwi]

I've got to ask

The team has about 20M in cap Space available, hell you could have 25M if you boot the likes of Jarnkrok and Kampf

Do we actually need another 11M off the books and if we do what can we spend it on? Because UFA looks like a ******* minefield full of over spends and guys on the backhalfs of there careers

I don't trust this lot with 25M let alone 35M, in fact I wouldn't trust many GM'S with that type of money burning a hole in there pocket

I'm starting to feel a little sick just thinking about it

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Leafs dont need anything offensively

they can easily start next season with
Knies-Matthews-Nylander
Cowan/Mcmann-Tavares-Marner
Mcmann/Cowan-Holmerg/-Robertson
Dewar-Kampf-Reaes or jarnkrok.

That they could doesn't necessarily mean that they should. Unless you're expecting major steps from Knies, Robertson, and Holmberg and expect Cowan to not only make the team but have an immediate impact the Leafs are going to have even worse problems offensively than usual. I have high hopes for Knies, Robertson, and Cowan offensively but I'm not sure it's wise to put all our hopes on A) a core that notoriously can't score in the playoffs to suddenly start scoring and B) for guys in the early days of their careers to step up and fill the gap in terms of secondary scoring. McMann is also unproven and Jarnkrok disappears offensively in the playoffs.

Granted, this would allow the Leafs to sign two of Roy, Skjei, Montour, Zadorov, Pesce, or Tanev. However I'm not sure the weakening of our forward group would be worth it.

 

[Brobust]

I think the difference is that you still believe our Core guys are Alphas where I think they are a whole bunch of Betas.
Willie seemed to be the only one that looks like he has the mental fortitude to be an alpha but I wouldn’t bet on him taking that role.
That’s why I think it’s best to surround them with guys like Marchessault that will take charge in playoffs and let AM and Willie to just do their thing much like what Vegas did with Eichel.
Can’t do that with three 11mil plus players esp since none of them are alphas.

As many times as they guys have shit the bed, they have also stepped up.

Marner pre contract held his own against f***ing Bergeron, Matthews against Tampa last season. I would liken this group as the smart kids who sometimes take their foot off the gas. They may just need a strong teacher.

I think an important issue is the supporting cast. I remember watching that game 5 against Columbus and thinking there's no way Justin Holl ever wears the blue and white again but there he was for the remainder of his contract. Not only that, they also protected him in the expansion draft. Hold the entire team accountable. With the cap finally going up, they can finally fill the roster with actual guys.

 

[Gabriel426]

I'm not being optmistic. The point of paying guys $10M+ is that they carry their own line. I like the idea of McMann either with Matthews or Marner. It makes a ton of sense.

I am not a JT fan at his current contract, but I'll accept that he's not going anywhere. So he's a one year issue.

On Marner, I will always be a believer. I remeber Mitch from the beginning and he has increible playoff potential. It's been so long and I accept that people may have lost faith but I just can't. This is the kid I dreamt my team would draft for years. They finally got him and somehow f***ed it up.

I'm really worried that the long term fate of this franchise may be destroyed because of bad PR and a series where they just had some dogshit injury luck. Any other team would look at two star players getting 'concussion consistent symptoms' right around the playoffs as an awful poker hand.

Glad you still have faith in MM. I just don’t.
He really played scared and afraid this past playoffs.
JT is a sunk cost and I hope he takes the high road and leave then come back at TDL with retention or just come back at a much much lower caphit and be part of a bottom 6.

 

[Gabriel426]

As many times as they guys have shit the bed, they have also stepped up.

Marner pre contract held his own against f***ing Bergeron, Matthews against Tampa last season. I would liken this group as the smart kids who sometimes take their foot off the gas. They may just need a strong teacher.

I think an important issue is the supporting cast. I remember watching that game 5 against Columbus and thinking there's no way Justin Holl ever wears the blue and white again but there he was for the remainder of his contract. Not only that, they also protected him in the expansion draft. Hold the entire team accountable. With the cap finally going up, they can finally fill the roster with actual guys.

Willie stepped up but that’s more comparison with the other three than McD and Drai level.
Not so sure about the others, I know AM did in Game 2 this past series.
JT and MM had moments but they are not paid for a moment here and there.

I really don’t think the supporting cast can be as strong as the team that won the Series. Unless all our youths become great players at the same time.

At the end of the day, having the best players in the series will most often help the team win the series.

We never truly had that. Quite disappointing that AM always get shut down by Cs making half his salary.
MM always seem useless as the series gets deeper or just choke in the past two playoffs series.
JT is a lost cause, he should go back to Hockey Schools to learn lessons instead of playing for the Leafs.
Willie needs to show up from the first minute of the series instead of waiting for a bad play and then wake up and play great in the series.

 

[rumman]

The patterns can be traced to probably Matthews, Marner, Rielly, JT and Nylander because they've changed the surrounding parts repeatedly.

All of the above are equally accountable in the team’s failure imo, the guys on expiring contracts are the first pieces to get rid of. The Leafs need to not resign JT, and trade Marner, if he refuses a trade then let him walk at the end of the season……..

It is difficult to get a true reflection when one has a 3 time Art Ross winner as his linemate, and the other has someone people like to call a 3rd. line center.

All Star Center versus a Good Center.

I keep hearing this argument over and over, but shouldn’t a 11mil player be able to drive his own line? If they can’t drive their own line they shouldn’t be paid as elite talent imo…….

 

[rumman]

the goal is to win the Cup and not have great players.
If trading AM means winning the Cup, they should trade AM.
Same applies to MM.
Logo on front is more important than the name on the back.

So hard for many here to grasp that the Cup IS the objective, not appeasing the fan base with flashy players who can’t get it done and lining MLSE’s coffers with dollars from jersey sales……..

 

[rumman]

Tony brother I'm going to be coming to the Dallas area for a wedding in December what do I need to know

God can’t help you be a great quarterback?

 

[rumman]

As many times as they guys have shit the bed, they have also stepped up.

Marner pre contract held his own against f***ing Bergeron, Matthews against Tampa last season. I would liken this group as the smart kids who sometimes take their foot off the gas. They may just need a strong teacher.

I think an important issue is the supporting cast. I remember watching that game 5 against Columbus and thinking there's no way Justin Holl ever wears the blue and white again but there he was for the remainder of his contract. Not only that, they also protected him in the expansion draft. Hold the entire team accountable. With the cap finally going up, they can finally fill the roster with actual guys.

You’re right, it’s not the core’s fault for the lack of success, it’s the supporting cast of player’s fault even though they’ve been changed every year. Before one can get help they need to admit they have a problem, ignoring the fact that it is the core players who have failed miserably in the playoffs is the elephant in the room that you apparently refuse to admit. I mean,it’s like paying your phone bill, but ignoring your mortgage payment, what I mean to say is it makes no sense whatsoever………

 

[thewave]

You’re right, it’s not the core’s fault for the lack of success, it’s the supporting cast of player’s fault even though they’ve been changed every year. Before one can get help they need to admit they have a problem, ignoring the fact that it is the core players who have failed miserably in the playoffs is the elephant in the room that you apparently refuse to admit. I mean,it’s like paying your phone bill, but ignoring your mortgage payment, what I mean to say is it makes no sense whatsoever………

Failure always comes down to ownership. If the owner doesn't care about winning. The team isn't required to win. If the team does need to win and are not, people get fired.

MLSE is an old boys club of circle jerking accountant types. They do not care about winning at all. Things like not rocking the boat are more important. At that point the core component of management is job preservation.

Its an organization of bullshitters and politicians. The gravy is good here. You can be president remotely from NYC.

 

[rumman]

Failure always comes down to ownership. If the owner doesn't care about winning. The team isn't required to win. If the team does need to win and are not, people get fired.

MLSE is an old boys club of circle jerking accountant types. They do not care about winning at all. Things like not rocking the boat are more important. At that point the core component of management is job preservation.

Its an organization of bullshitters and politicians. The gravy is good here. You can be president remotely from NYC.

Roger that, as long as the jersey sales are booming and the season ticket holders keep paying for sub par hockey all’s good at MLSE………

 

[thewave]

Roger that, as long as the jersey sales are booming and the season ticket holders keep paying for sub par hockey all’s good at MLSE………

The Leafs need a full blown Don Cherry type character in charge. Someone that will be bold make a statement. Be controversial but not like Burke who pandered to his friends Nonis and Wilson. The organization requires a manager who almost overshadows the team to run cover for it in the media. If that is a non starter they need another Lou who will shut the whole thing down into a cone of silence.

Nothing else will work.

 

[rumman]

The Leafs need a full blown Don Cherry type character in charge. Someone that will be bold make a statement. Be controversial but not like Burke who pandered to his friends Nonis and Wilson. The organization requires a manager who almost overshadows the team to run cover for it in the media. If that is a non starter they need another Lou who will shut the whole thing down into a cone of silence.

Nothing else will work.

A single owner with deep pockets would really help imo, this media conglomerate is as bad or worse than the Harold Ballard era………

 

[Americanadian]

I looked up his 1st half and 2nd half numbers. Even 41 game splits.

I see you didn't post his games played. Hmmm.

I did.

 

[thusk]

That they could doesn't necessarily mean that they should. Unless you're expecting major steps from Knies, Robertson, and Holmberg and expect Cowan to not only make the team but have an immediate impact the Leafs are going to have even worse problems offensively than usual. I have high hopes for Knies, Robertson, and Cowan offensively but I'm not sure it's wise to put all our hopes on A) a core that notoriously can't score in the playoffs to suddenly start scoring and B) for guys in the early days of their careers to step up and fill the gap in terms of secondary scoring. McMann is also unproven and Jarnkrok disappears offensively in the playoffs.

Granted, this would allow the Leafs to sign two of Roy, Skjei, Montour, Zadorov, Pesce, or Tanev. However I'm not sure the weakening of our forward group would be worth it.

How many f***ing times do you need to see this loser forward group fail miserably to produce goals in the playoffs before you admit you're wrong?

The f***ing team has produced more than two goals ONCE in their last FOURTEEN Playoff games.

Upgrade the the D, that' will allow to leafs foward to be able to take more risk in the offensive end because your D will be able to follow the game and make the play when you need it. If you're starting to pressure more and taking more risk, you will put d under pressure and force them to make mistake and that's will create offensive... but you need d who able to deal with it.

If you're trying to overcome your lack of quality of your D by overdefending and taking minimum of risk because your D group is not good enough to defend off the rush. Keefe system had been pretty great to hide leafs defensive issues but his system at the same time broke leafs offensive. The fact keefe had been able to hide it doesn't mean the problem is not there anymore. The problem just pop up in a different way but still the same.

Upgrade the D group will just help Toronto group to make their work in the offensive side.

 

[thusk]

are you serious that Leafs don’t need any more forwards?
I don’t think we should continue our discussions, as if that’s your premises. There is no point.
Just have to agree to disagree.

leafs need betrer d to upgrade the offensive and gave them more freedom to forecheck and make play. If you're just trying to forecheck with 1 player and come back in neutral zone at 4 to defend, you will not put a lot of pressure on opposite D and the chance to force them to make a mistake and caught them out od position are pretty low.. But if your D are not good enough to defend off the rush without help, if you're forechecking at 2 or 3 to put pressure, if you're missing your forecheck and gave up more 3v2 or 4v2 by exemple, you need to be able to defend it. If you're not good enough, you will strugling by giving up too much goal. So whatever wich system you choose, the issue is the same one.

 

[Torontonian]

I've got to ask

The team has about 20M in cap Space available, hell you could have 25M if you boot the likes of Jarnkrok and Kampf

Do we actually need another 11M off the books and if we do what can we spend it on? Because UFA looks like a ******* minefield full of over spends and guys on the backhalfs of there careers

I don't trust this lot with 25M let alone 35M, in fact I wouldn't trust many GM'S with that type of money burning a hole in there pocket

I'm starting to feel a little sick just thinking about it

Spending upwards to 25m if they traded Kampf and Jankrok in free agency scares me.

This UFA crop has some quality players at least.

If Toronto can come out of free agency with 2 dman and a middle six forward again like Domin/ Ardvisson etc it will be a good off season.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Marner needs to study Kutcherov tapes on the PP all summer long and emulate.
Kutch is great not because his passing or shot is great, but, how well he disguises both and how often he mixes both, so, you never know what he'll do.
Marner is an 80+% passer (Domi is 90+%) and thats too easy to defend

JT had a career season as the net presence, and what did they do, move him off... we really need an entire new coaching staff.

Yup, agree. That's why I really like the hiring of Berube, and I believe that Savard will also help this inept PP, if he gets hired. It was so infuriating to see them continuously do the same damn thing on every PP opportunity, and Boston always neutralizing it, and yet the coach(es) not make any adjustments whatsoever!

 

[Malachi Crunch]

Dreger on the radio this morning:

-Necar is almost certainly going to be moved. Wants a bigger role on a new team.
-Mike Yeo is going to Ottawa
-The picture of Marner and Berube that circulated last week - it didn't actually happen on that day. It was taken just days after Berube was hired. He met up with a numbers of players to introduce himself and Mitch was one of them. Nothing more to that pic.