GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

[TMLAM34]

Nothing says stability in net like running Woll and Brossoit as a tandem who have both never started more then 25 games in a regular season.

Right. Might as well run Woll - Jones at that point lmao

 

[rumman]

Nothing says stability in net like running Woll and Brossoit as a tandem who have both never started more then 25 games in a regular season.

Better than Sammy imo, Brossoit is at least mentally stable enough to trust between the pipes imo…….

 

[ToneDog]

I am 100% on team trade Marner.

But

If you’re asking him to waive his NMC, why not ask Nylander. If Marner is willing to sign an identical deal to Nylander to stay in Toronto, he is objectively better than Nylander. Nylander has a long-term deal and in theory would be more willing to waive his NMC than Marner given he doesn’t have family ties.

Friedman reported multiple times this year that Treliving shopped Nylander as much as he could for a defenseman but no one offered a defenseman he wanted. This implies that Treliving isn’t married to having Nylander on his roster. Now Treliving wants to move off the core 4 because they aren’t successful, not just because he wants a defenseman. In theory, if he’s shopping Marner for the best possible deal, not just a defenseman, he can do the same for Nylander.

Bringing this up because no one has mentioned it yet.

Nylander was shopped before he signed, which Tre said was his best option. Nylander is probably less tradable now with that contract IMO. It's Marner's turn to be shopped.

 

[Americanadian]

Nylander was shopped before he signed, which Tre said was his best option. Nylander is probably less tradable now with that contract IMO. It's Marner's turn to be shopped.

I would shop both but if they have the same or nearly the same contract I’d prefer they keep the better player.

 

[ToneDog]

I would shop both but if they have the same or nearly the same contract I’d prefer they keep the better player.

In theory you could shop both but I doubt anybody wants that Willie deal. I'm guessing they would rather come up with a deal with Marner more too their liking.

 

[Americanadian]

In theory you could shop both but I doubt anybody wants that Willie deal. I'm guessing they would rather come up with a deal with Marner more too their liking.

More than likely true. It’s already an albatross.

 

[WTFMAN99]

So I probably got a lot of the contracts for the UFAs wrong, the Lindholm deal was based off Seravelli's projection but I personally have my doubts on it.

Marner likely declines St.Louis too

Just tried to do a mock based on some of the latest

We're less than 30 days most likely from some roster shake up(s) though.

 

[nuck]

Please set your sights a bit higher than this. A Marner trade has to fully address this team's depth or add a significantly impact defenceman.

Being cost controlled or physical should not be the main selling points of any player the leafs get back. Impactful and potential are the words we need to focus on.

There's a tipping point for the organization in terms of minimum acceptable trade return which we don't know, and another spectrum of value for individual fans which the club doesn't care about but which determines how happy we are with a deal.

At one end of the scale is cap space alone with an own rental Mitch which would be a complete fail. There will not be the same plethora of quality RFA defensemen as this year so how just money can improve the team is much more uncertain. You are running it back with just the new coach as a significant change so there is a strong likely hood of the typical result. Basically a lost year as you are banking on Tavares departure and further cap growth to allow the lineup to improve. I assume they would make an effort to resign him but it would be for market value rather than Leaf numbers.

At the other end is the return of high quality assets and significant value which you could have pursued without the NM and get the most back from the thirstiest dance partner. I think they sort of went down that road with Willie but were not getting sufficient value so they didn't deal..

Any Mitch deal is somewhere between those two points. If he will even agree to waive there will likely be a very limited number of options so the return will be underwhelming. Like the Flames for Hanifin because he had the NM and pull on the destination so rather than the best return it was the best available return from just a few teams. As such any Marner deal almost certainly can't fully address the teams needs any more than a Nylander trade would have. If that is what you would need then you will really need is for him to be resigned. If the organization needs that same return, he will have to be resigned. I for one expect they will be flexible if a deal can be made as the news conference did not suggest an appetite to run it back again. I don't know what their tipping point is though in terms of minimum..

They will be able to add a significant defenseman with the cap space alone irrespective of the trade return because there are 6 RD out there who are better than what they have. They will likely have to take the best offer, whatever it is, and use those pieces towards more specific needs. They aren't calling the shots, the player is, so it is really important he isn't too specific with his destination, or at least he keeps it quieter than Hanifin's people did because Vegas knowing the other two prime destinations crushed the Flames return.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

I would shop both but if they have the same or nearly the same contract I’d prefer they keep the better player.

Same, which is Nylander

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I am not intending to beat a dead horse but I just don't see how we can afford to keep both Marner and Nylander long-term while also addressing our other weaknesses.

 

[Americanadian]

Same, which is Nylander

Objectively Marner is a better overall player.

 

[Brobust]

More than likely true. It’s already an albatross.

Reports out there that Travis Konecny want $10M+ on his next deal. I think with the cap projected to go over $100M in the next 4 years, the Willy contract looks a bit more reasonable that it did when it was signed.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Reports out there that Travis Konecny want $10M+ on his next deal. I think with the cap projected to go over $100M in the next 4 years, the Willy contract looks a bit more reasonable that it did when it was signed.

I don't think Konecny will even get it, most likely Guentzel will get extended and Konecny will be lucky to get the same.

 

[Brobust]

There's a tipping point for the organization in terms of minimum acceptable trade return which we don't know, and another spectrum of value for individual fans which the club doesn't care about but which determines how happy we are with a deal.

At one end of the scale is cap space alone with an own rental Mitch which would be a complete fail. There will not be the same plethora of quality RFA defensemen as this year so how just money can improve the team is much more uncertain. You are running it back with just the new coach as a significant change so there is a strong likely hood of the typical result. Basically a lost year as you are banking on Tavares departure and further cap growth to allow the lineup to improve. I assume they would make an effort to resign him but it would be for market value rather than Leaf numbers.

At the other end is the return of high quality assets and significant value which you could have pursued without the NM and get the most back from the thirstiest dance partner. I think they sort of went down that road with Willie but were not getting sufficient value so they didn't deal..

Any Mitch deal is somewhere between those two points. If he will even agree to waive there will likely be a very limited number of options so the return will be underwhelming. Like the Flames for Hanifin because he had the NM and pull on the destination so rather than the best return it was the best available return from just a few teams. As such any Marner deal almost certainly can't fully address the teams needs any more than a Nylander trade would have. If that is what you would need then you will really need is for him to be resigned. If the organization needs that same return, he will have to be resigned. I for one expect they will be flexible if a deal can be made as the news conference did not suggest an appetite to run it back again. I don't know what their tipping point is though in terms of minimum..

They will be able to add a significant defenseman with the cap space alone irrespective of the trade return because there are 6 RD out there who are better than what they have. They will likely have to take the best offer, whatever it is, and use those pieces towards more specific needs. They aren't calling the shots, the player is, so it is really important he isn't too specific with his destination, or at least he keeps it quieter than Hanifin's people did because Vegas knowing the other two prime destinations crushed the Flames return.

You might consider this unacceptable but extending Marner is also an option. Sign a UFA RD, maybe try and restock the prospect pipeline a bit and wait till next season until more cap space opens up.

I think the only reasons to consider a Marner trade would be if the return is significant or if the player wants out or intends to go through the same negotiation process he went through last time around. If Marner once again tries once again to use Matthews as a standard, I guess that I'll just have to eat the shit sandwich and accept an underwhelming return.

 

[shortfuze]

well, other than McJesus who does?

Delete

 

[Dreakmur]

Objectively Marner is a better overall player.

In a vacuum, probably. There's just something about the mix here that doesn't work, and Marner's attitude/persona appear to be a part of that.

 

[Americanadian]

Reports out there that Travis Konecny want $10M+ on his next deal. I think with the cap projected to go over $100M in the next 4 years, the Willy contract looks a bit more reasonable that it did when it was signed.

I doubt he gets that but he’s also lead the Flyers in points 4 out of the last 5 seasons. I think it’s reasonable to expect he could put up the same production as Nylander if he played next to a C that was a better scorer than him.

In a vacuum, probably. There's just something about the mix here that doesn't work, and Marner's attitude/persona appear to be a part of that.

Wholeheartedly agree with this, that is why I lead by saying I am 100% on team trade Marner. The point I was trying to make in the OP is the Leafs would be better off from a pure talent POV to move Nylander and re-sign Marner (assuming the contracts are similar or within 0.5M).

 

[Dreakmur]

Wholeheartedly agree with this, that is why I lead by saying I am 100% on team trade Marner. The point I was trying to make in the OP is the Leafs would be better off from a pure talent POV to move Nylander and re-sign Marner (assuming the contracts are similar or within 0.5M).

Marner is a more effective player in the regular season, but that's despite Nylander having more talent. Nylander is probably a top-5 talent in the world. Any weakness Nylander has is in his approach.

 

[Americanadian]

Marner is a more effective player in the regular season, but that's despite Nylander having more talent. Nylander is probably a top-5 talent in the world. Any weakness Nylander has is in his approach.

Sure, he showed that in the first 37 games this season. Then he got paid.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Reports out there that Travis Konecny want $10M+ on his next deal. I think with the cap projected to go over $100M in the next 4 years, the Willy contract looks a bit more reasonable that it did when it was signed.

Jesus that's awful if true.

 

[Dreakmur]

Sure, he showed that in the first 37 games this season. Then he got paid.

That's the approach I was talking about. The talent is undeniable.

You can look at Marner's skillset and find weaknesses. He doesn't have a great shot. He lacks both high end speed and acceleration. You can't do the same with Nylander.

 

[nuck]

Nylander was shopped before he signed, which Tre said was his best option. Nylander is probably less tradable now with that contract IMO. It's Marner's turn to be shopped.

I would say Willie is untradeable. He took this deal to finish his career as a Leaf and as an important part of the club's future. He won't waive and they won't ask him to. They had their window and they chose not to use it. Its Mitch moving or they run with the big 3.

Jesus that's awful if true.

Thats hilarious if true. Even using Nylander math you can't get there with 68 points

 

[TheGreenTBer]

That's the approach I was talking about. The talent is undeniable.

You can look at Marner's skillset and find weaknesses. He doesn't have a great shot. He lacks both high end speed and acceleration. You can't do the same with Nylander.

IMO Nylander's physical skills allow him to create space for himself a bit more easily than Marner can. Marner shines in any environment with existing space because his hockey IQ is spectacular; definitely better than Nylander's, and if you give Mitch time and space he WILL burn you. The problem is, in the playoffs there is less time and space.

 

[Brobust]

Sure, he showed that in the first 37 games this season. Then he got paid.

His 2nd half slow down has been a trend for years. It's a bit cynical to say he was just playing for a contract.

 

[Tony Romo]

Asking a dude to waive his NMC after just giving him a massive contract extension is a good way to have no one ever sign here again tbh.