Trades and Free Agency Discussion - The Dog Days of Summer

[IPS]

Trying too hard to discredit Kadri because of 2 playoff suspensions and 1 being a stupid one that wasn't deserved. It's quite sad at this point. Try and say he's bad defensively so I'll even post one of those player cards you probably love to look at.

This isn't what it's about at all. It's about trying to diminish a player to suit an agenda, and it's not even to pump up Tavares or any other Leaf. It's literally all in the name of paying homage to a player that God King Dubas didn't deem worthy to be on the team.

 

[LaPlante94]

I'll give him the Kuznetsov and Malkin but Cirelli, Stephenson and Schenn it's just laughable at this point especially when he tries to use their best season and tries to play Kadris off as a fluke when Kadri has better career numbers than all of these guys minus Malkin and Kuznetsov. All good players I'd take on my team but to say they are cup caliber 2Cs and not Kadri is just ridiculous.

 

[notbias]

Now you just seem to be making stuff up. Stephenson averages aren't better than Kadris, Stamkos has been LW and Gourde who was their 3C put up better numbers than Cirelli in 1 year but it still wasn't at Kadris average the years they won the cup so another made up stat I guess. Schenn literally produces the same career numbers as Kadri so again I just don't get it. Malkin was 1 I acknowledged and said we all know he's a 1C anywhere else and Kuznetsov I guess we can say this guy keeps having fluke seasons or something. Has a season with average numbers and then increases by 40 points the next and then dips by 20 the next and then up again by 20 the next. That Stephenson guy also. Could barely break 20 points and then finally broke 30 and then after that he jumped up 30 points and broke 60 all of a sudden. Yet that guy is a legit cup caliber 2C and Kadri isn't in your eyes.

Mackinnon missed 17 games that year and Kadri filled his role. I also added that he got 10 points at either 3v3 or 4v4 because the site said even strength points and 10 of his points weren't 5on5 or on the PP or PK so it had to of come at 3v3 or 4v4.


Trying too hard to discredit Kadri because of 2 playoff suspensions and 1 being a stupid one that wasn't deserved. It's quite sad at this point. Try and say he's bad defensively so I'll even post one of those player cards you probably love to look at.



Wouldn't really say that's a defensive liability, especially for a 2C that's not really used as a shutdown C.

That year is an insane outlier... would be curious to see his other years as a comparison.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Stephenson averages aren't better than Kadris,

He paced for 13 more points than 2015-2021 Kadri in the year his team won.

Stamkos has been LW and Gourde who was their 3C put up better numbers than Cirelli in 1 year but it still wasn't at Kadris average the years they won the cup

Stamkos played plenty of center. They also had Cirelli better than usual Kadri in 2020 and Gourde better than usual Kadri in 2021.

Schenn literally produces the same career numbers as Kadri so again I just don't get it.

Schenn paced for 9 points more than usual Kadri in the year St Louis won. Not sure why you're talking about his career stats.

Malkin was 1 I acknowledged and said we all know he's a 1C anywhere else and Kuznetsov I guess we can say this guy keeps having fluke seasons or something. Has a season with average numbers and then increases by 40 points the next and then dips by 20 the next and then up again by 20 the next. That Stephenson guy also. Could barely break 20 points and then finally broke 30 and then after that he jumped up 30 points and broke 60 all of a sudden. Yet that guy is a legit cup caliber 2C and Kadri isn't in your eyes.

A 53 point center that gets suspended a lot and is below average defensively is not a cup caliber C. Regardless of what players were in other years, every cup team in recent history has needed something better than that in the 2C slot in the year they won.

Mackinnon missed 17 games that year and Kadri filled his role. I also added that he got 10 points at either 3v3 or 4v4

Mackinnon missed games the year before too, and Kadri's production didn't change. Kadri's role and linemate quality stayed pretty consistent throughout, and he didn't randomly double his production any other year. Kadri got 1 point at 3v3 and 1 point at 4v4 that year.

Wouldn't really say that's a defensive liability

Issues with those player cards aside, that's exclusively the 2021-2022 season, which we've already acknowledged is an extremely abnormal fluke season for him.
That's not the Kadri Toronto was making decisions on.

 

[andora]

Anyof those guys have empty net stats that bring their numbers down?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Why did Swayman have arbitration eligibility coming out of his ELC in the first place?

 

[LeafChief]

I love Naz.

Hope he gets to come back one day like Schenn did.

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

Why did Swayman have arbitration eligibility coming out of his ELC in the first place?

How does NHL arbitration work? A guide to the process that rarely happens

 

[Dekes For Days]

How does NHL arbitration work? A guide to the process that rarely happens

View attachment 732899

Thanks. So if I'm understanding this correctly, it appears to be because he signed his ELC at age 21 and played enough games in 2020-2021 for it to qualify as a professional season.

 

[fahad203]

I love Naz.

Hope he gets to come back one day like Schenn did.

I feel the same way about McDavid. I hope he comes home some day

 

[keonsbitterness]

Anyof those guys have empty net stats that bring their numbers down?

 

[LaPlante94]

He paced for 13 more points than 2015-2021 Kadri in the year his team won.

Stamkos played plenty of center. They also had Cirelli better than usual Kadri in 2020 and Gourde better than usual Kadri in 2021.

Schenn paced for 9 points more than usual Kadri in the year St Louis won. Not sure why you're talking about his career stats.

A 53 point center that gets suspended a lot and is below average defensively is not a cup caliber C. Regardless of what players were in other years, every cup team in recent history has needed something better than that in the 2C slot in the year they won.

Mackinnon missed games the year before too, and Kadri's production didn't change. Kadri's role and linemate quality stayed pretty consistent throughout, and he didn't randomly double his production any other year. Kadri got 1 point at 3v3 and 1 point at 4v4 that year.

Issues with those player cards aside, that's exclusively the 2021-2022 season, which we've already acknowledged is an extremely abnormal fluke season for him.
That's not the Kadri Toronto was making decisions on.

You use his cup winning season to justify Stephenson being a cup caliber 2C where he got 65 points in 81 games but Kadri's 100 point pace his cup winning season is just a fluke but Stephenson gets a pass though right?

Hyman took over 200 faceoffs for us one season. Does that qualify him as a C or no? Cirelli had 44 points in 68 games in 2020 and Kadri had 36 in 51 that same year. Doesn't seem much better. Gourde had 36 in 56 in 2021 while Kadri had 32 in 56 that same year. It's funny you ignore Cirelli in 2021 since he was their 2C but he only put up 22 in 50 that season. You probably don't even want to compare the 2 deep playoff runs all 3 of Gourde, Cirelli and Kadri made in that 2020-2022 frame because that just makes Cirelli and Gourde look worse.

You love using Kadri's average from the years 2015-21 but when I say that Schenn and Kadri have pretty much the same career numbers you don't understand why I talk about career stats? Really?

No they haven't. They haven't really had much better than Kadri except Malkin and Kuznetsov and the rest are pretty much the same. It's funny you love to try and use Kadri being bad defensively when we know he's not as bad as you try and make him out to be and say nothing about Tavares who isn't exactly known for his defensive play either and he makes 11 mil. That's our current 2C btw just in case you forgot since you seem to think defence is very important in that part of the lineup.

You're trying to use stats from covid seasons where they were inside a damn bubble and with zero fans in the building and asking why he didn't breakout those seasons when teams were literally playing with multiple guys out at times during the season with many lineup changes because of covid protocols. I wonder why it was harder to breakout being on a new team and having these types of issues in not just the league but the world.



That's from his last season in Toronto when he was used as a 3C and I didn't want to bring up the trade but this is the only one of him in Toronto I could find on google. According to these cards Kerfoot looked like a decent pickup back then but he was a bust. Just gonna show this to stir the pot a bit about our former GMs odd love affair with Kerfoot and the decisions he made back then.



That's who we traded for and stole from Pittsburgh to expose in the draft to protect this next guy probably to try and save any hope of trying to say we won that Kadri deal which we clearly did not.



Even though they aren't exactly apart of this discussion it does show the kind of decisions we made back then and how they didn't really make sense then and still don't to this day.

 

[andora]

You use his cup winning season to justify Stephenson being a cup caliber 2C where he got 65 points in 81 games but Kadri's 100 point pace his cup winning season is just a fluke but Stephenson gets a pass though right?

Hyman took over 200 faceoffs for us one season. Does that qualify him as a C or no? Cirelli had 44 points in 68 games in 2020 and Kadri had 36 in 51 that same year. Doesn't seem much better. Gourde had 36 in 56 in 2021 while Kadri had 32 in 56 that same year. It's funny you ignore Cirelli in 2021 since he was their 2C but he only put up 22 in 50 that season. You probably don't even want to compare the 2 deep playoff runs all 3 of Gourde, Cirelli and Kadri made in that 2020-2022 frame because that just makes Cirelli and Gourde look worse.

You love using Kadri's average from the years 2015-21 but when I say that Schenn and Kadri have pretty much the same career numbers you don't understand why I talk about career stats? Really?

No they haven't. They haven't really had much better than Kadri except Malkin and Kuznetsov and the rest are pretty much the same. It's funny you love to try and use Kadri being bad defensively when we know he's not as bad as you try and make him out to be and say nothing about Tavares who isn't exactly known for his defensive play either and he makes 11 mil. That's our current 2C btw just in case you forgot since you seem to think defence is very important in that part of the lineup.

You're trying to use stats from covid seasons where they were inside a damn bubble and with zero fans in the building and asking why he didn't breakout those seasons when teams were literally playing with multiple guys out at times during the season with many lineup changes because of covid protocols. I wonder why it was harder to breakout being on a new team and having these types of issues in not just the league but the world.



That's from his last season in Toronto when he was used as a 3C and I didn't want to bring up the trade but this is the only one of him in Toronto I could find on google. According to these cards Kerfoot looked like a decent pickup back then but he was a bust. Just gonna show this to stir the pot a bit about our former GMs odd love affair with Kerfoot and the decisions he made back then.



That's who we traded for and stole from Pittsburgh to expose in the draft to protect this next guy probably to try and save any hope of trying to say we won that Kadri deal which we clearly did not.



Even though they aren't exactly apart of this discussion it does show the kind of decisions we made back then and how they didn't really make sense then and still don't to this day.

Wow, this is kind of like how I feel after listening to a song I really like or watching a movie I really like. If we could do audio posts I would probably give you a clap or one of those finger snaps that you do when you're doing a tin of chewing tobacco

 

[LeafSteel]

You use his cup winning season to justify Stephenson being a cup caliber 2C where he got 65 points in 81 games but Kadri's 100 point pace his cup winning season is just a fluke but Stephenson gets a pass though right?

Hyman took over 200 faceoffs for us one season. Does that qualify him as a C or no? Cirelli had 44 points in 68 games in 2020 and Kadri had 36 in 51 that same year. Doesn't seem much better. Gourde had 36 in 56 in 2021 while Kadri had 32 in 56 that same year. It's funny you ignore Cirelli in 2021 since he was their 2C but he only put up 22 in 50 that season. You probably don't even want to compare the 2 deep playoff runs all 3 of Gourde, Cirelli and Kadri made in that 2020-2022 frame because that just makes Cirelli and Gourde look worse.

You love using Kadri's average from the years 2015-21 but when I say that Schenn and Kadri have pretty much the same career numbers you don't understand why I talk about career stats? Really?

No they haven't. They haven't really had much better than Kadri except Malkin and Kuznetsov and the rest are pretty much the same. It's funny you love to try and use Kadri being bad defensively when we know he's not as bad as you try and make him out to be and say nothing about Tavares who isn't exactly known for his defensive play either and he makes 11 mil. That's our current 2C btw just in case you forgot since you seem to think defence is very important in that part of the lineup.

You're trying to use stats from covid seasons where they were inside a damn bubble and with zero fans in the building and asking why he didn't breakout those seasons when teams were literally playing with multiple guys out at times during the season with many lineup changes because of covid protocols. I wonder why it was harder to breakout being on a new team and having these types of issues in not just the league but the world.



That's from his last season in Toronto when he was used as a 3C and I didn't want to bring up the trade but this is the only one of him in Toronto I could find on google. According to these cards Kerfoot looked like a decent pickup back then but he was a bust. Just gonna show this to stir the pot a bit about our former GMs odd love affair with Kerfoot and the decisions he made back then.



That's who we traded for and stole from Pittsburgh to expose in the draft to protect this next guy probably to try and save any hope of trying to say we won that Kadri deal which we clearly did not.



Even though they aren't exactly apart of this discussion it does show the kind of decisions we made back then and how they didn't really make sense then and still don't to this day.

 

[IPS]

You use his cup winning season to justify Stephenson being a cup caliber 2C where he got 65 points in 81 games but Kadri's 100 point pace his cup winning season is just a fluke but Stephenson gets a pass though right?

Hyman took over 200 faceoffs for us one season. Does that qualify him as a C or no? Cirelli had 44 points in 68 games in 2020 and Kadri had 36 in 51 that same year. Doesn't seem much better. Gourde had 36 in 56 in 2021 while Kadri had 32 in 56 that same year. It's funny you ignore Cirelli in 2021 since he was their 2C but he only put up 22 in 50 that season. You probably don't even want to compare the 2 deep playoff runs all 3 of Gourde, Cirelli and Kadri made in that 2020-2022 frame because that just makes Cirelli and Gourde look worse.

You love using Kadri's average from the years 2015-21 but when I say that Schenn and Kadri have pretty much the same career numbers you don't understand why I talk about career stats? Really?

No they haven't. They haven't really had much better than Kadri except Malkin and Kuznetsov and the rest are pretty much the same. It's funny you love to try and use Kadri being bad defensively when we know he's not as bad as you try and make him out to be and say nothing about Tavares who isn't exactly known for his defensive play either and he makes 11 mil. That's our current 2C btw just in case you forgot since you seem to think defence is very important in that part of the lineup.

You're trying to use stats from covid seasons where they were inside a damn bubble and with zero fans in the building and asking why he didn't breakout those seasons when teams were literally playing with multiple guys out at times during the season with many lineup changes because of covid protocols. I wonder why it was harder to breakout being on a new team and having these types of issues in not just the league but the world.



That's from his last season in Toronto when he was used as a 3C and I didn't want to bring up the trade but this is the only one of him in Toronto I could find on google. According to these cards Kerfoot looked like a decent pickup back then but he was a bust. Just gonna show this to stir the pot a bit about our former GMs odd love affair with Kerfoot and the decisions he made back then.



That's who we traded for and stole from Pittsburgh to expose in the draft to protect this next guy probably to try and save any hope of trying to say we won that Kadri deal which we clearly did not.



Even though they aren't exactly apart of this discussion it does show the kind of decisions we made back then and how they didn't really make sense then and still don't to this day.

Nicely said.

And one last thing regarding the whole production of #2C's on cup winners thing - if you actually do the list properly, you'll actually see that the #2C's of the last 5 years all have a career PPG average lower than Kadri or is Kadri himself. No joke.

 

[kb]

You use his cup winning season to justify Stephenson being a cup caliber 2C where he got 65 points in 81 games but Kadri's 100 point pace his cup winning season is just a fluke but Stephenson gets a pass though right?

Hyman took over 200 faceoffs for us one season. Does that qualify him as a C or no? Cirelli had 44 points in 68 games in 2020 and Kadri had 36 in 51 that same year. Doesn't seem much better. Gourde had 36 in 56 in 2021 while Kadri had 32 in 56 that same year. It's funny you ignore Cirelli in 2021 since he was their 2C but he only put up 22 in 50 that season. You probably don't even want to compare the 2 deep playoff runs all 3 of Gourde, Cirelli and Kadri made in that 2020-2022 frame because that just makes Cirelli and Gourde look worse.

You love using Kadri's average from the years 2015-21 but when I say that Schenn and Kadri have pretty much the same career numbers you don't understand why I talk about career stats? Really?

No they haven't. They haven't really had much better than Kadri except Malkin and Kuznetsov and the rest are pretty much the same. It's funny you love to try and use Kadri being bad defensively when we know he's not as bad as you try and make him out to be and say nothing about Tavares who isn't exactly known for his defensive play either and he makes 11 mil. That's our current 2C btw just in case you forgot since you seem to think defence is very important in that part of the lineup.

You're trying to use stats from covid seasons where they were inside a damn bubble and with zero fans in the building and asking why he didn't breakout those seasons when teams were literally playing with multiple guys out at times during the season with many lineup changes because of covid protocols. I wonder why it was harder to breakout being on a new team and having these types of issues in not just the league but the world.



That's from his last season in Toronto when he was used as a 3C and I didn't want to bring up the trade but this is the only one of him in Toronto I could find on google. According to these cards Kerfoot looked like a decent pickup back then but he was a bust. Just gonna show this to stir the pot a bit about our former GMs odd love affair with Kerfoot and the decisions he made back then.



That's who we traded for and stole from Pittsburgh to expose in the draft to protect this next guy probably to try and save any hope of trying to say we won that Kadri deal which we clearly did not.



Even though they aren't exactly apart of this discussion it does show the kind of decisions we made back then and how they didn't really make sense then and still don't to this day.

Again, McCann was not exposed to protect Kerfoot. They were both exposed.

Would people stop lying? Is that so hard?

 

[Dekes For Days]

You use his cup winning season to justify Stephenson being a cup caliber 2C where he got 65 points in 81 games but Kadri's 100 point pace his cup winning season is just a fluke but Stephenson gets a pass though right?

You seem to be losing track of what we're talking about here.
I said that a 53 point center that's below average defensively and gets suspended a lot was not an ideal cup caliber 2C.
You disagreed and said that it was an ideal cup caliber 2C, and we should look at the 2Cs that cup winning teams had.
So we did, and it showed that every 2C in recent history was better than non-fluke-year Kadri in the year the team won.
Now you're talking about Kadri's abnormal fluke season, and Stephenson's pace in other years, which is irrelevant to the discussion.
We're comparing usual Kadri - what we made the decision on - to the 2C performances that win a cup, to see whether it was reasonable for us to seek an upgrade.
Without the knowledge that Kadri would abnormally double his pace of production in one random season, it was reasonable.

Hyman took over 200 faceoffs for us one season.

Hyman had faceoffs almost entirely from the penalty kill, and Stamkos in a below average year was taking 3-4 times more faceoffs than Hyman did at his peak.
Stamkos actually took among the most faceoffs on his team those years. He in fact took more faceoffs per game than Point those years. Not close to the same thing.

Cirelli had 44 points in 68 games in 2020 and Kadri had 36 in 51 that same year. Doesn't seem much better. Gourde had 36 in 56 in 2021 while Kadri had 32 in 56 that same year.

It's pretty similar production, but then you add in that Cirelli (and to a lesser extent Gourde) is much better defensively, doesn't have discipline issues, doesn't rely on the PP to get his production, and also PKs, and it's pretty easy to see who's the better choice.

It's funny you ignore Cirelli in 2021 since he was their 2C but he only put up 22 in 50 that season.

What's funny is that you're trying to talk about Cirelli's 2020-2021 season while ignoring that Tampa had 3 other centers that year who were better than Kadri.

You love using Kadri's average from the years 2015-21 but when I say that Schenn and Kadri have pretty much the same career numbers you don't understand why I talk about career stats?

Yeah, because what Schenn did in other years isn't relevant to what St Louis won with - which is what we're discussing.

You're trying to use stats from covid seasons where they were inside a damn bubble and with zero fans in the building and asking why he didn't breakout those seasons when teams were literally playing with multiple guys out at times during the season with many lineup changes because of covid protocols. I wonder why it was harder to breakout being on a new team and having these types of issues in not just the league but the world.

I looked at the rest of Kadri's career, where he produced at a pretty similar pace throughout. You're trying to argue that his 2021-2022 season, where he literally doubled his pace of production by 50 points, was in fact not a fluke, and just a result of Kadri's situation changing, but literally nothing about Kadri's situation meaningfully changed from previous or future years where he had his usual production.

That's from his last season in Toronto

That's actually their projection for the next year based on a 3 year weighted average, and issues with those player cards aside, that says he wasn't good defensively, like I said.

That's who we traded for and stole from Pittsburgh to expose in the draft to protect this next guy

I'm not sure what you think McCann has to do with literally anything we're talking about, but for the record, we did not protect Kerfoot.

 

[Dekes For Days]

 

[Fogelhund]

Andy Strickland on Cam and Strick today said it’s likely “5 players” will be facing NHL suspensions for their involvement in the 2018 WJC sexual assault scandal. Said he knows the names but won’t say them now.

“Some significant names”

Noting, this was yesterday, not today…. I’m not sure of the definition of “significant”.

 

[ACC1224]

Andy Strickland on Cam and Strick today said it’s likely “5 players” will be facing NHL suspensions for their involvement in the 2018 WJC sexual assault scandal. Said he knows the names but won’t say them now.

“Some significant names”

Noting, this was yesterday, not today…. I’m not sure of the definition of “significant”.

I know the names too but won't say anything until the NHL does then I will validate that they are correct.

 

[TMLAM34]

Probably why no one has signed Comtois.

 

[leafsfan5]

So soft

 

[The Nic]

So soft

Thank God he feels that way. He should add that the Toronto market also has a problem with overpaying one-trick defensemen in free agency. Win win.

 

[Fogelhund]

Probably why no one has signed Comtois.

Comtois, Foote and Formenton don’t currently have contracts, when normally you’d assume they would.

The interesting part, was “significant player” which would suggest players under contract. I don’t know what constitutes significant…. Significant like “Makar” or “Batherson”.

Hopefully the NHL makes their announcement soon. The other question will be.. what will the suspensions look like? Is this a 2-4 games, season or ban?

 

[nuck]

Probably why no one has signed Comtois.

I could see that with a player like Formenton but I think you could have signed Comtois for $1.1M and bury or buy him out if it went bad. It seems like an easy buy low option unless he is just not in demand or people think he is likely guilty of something. I guess we will find out pretty soon. Its a bad situation for all concerned. Will be glad when gavel falls and things move on.