Trades and Free Agency Discussion - The Dog Days of Summer

[ErnieLeafs]

Don't disagree. Just wanted to have some balance that there are other benefits Toronto can't off. Heck for housing it's gone beyond GTA. Sold a condo in London for $70k in 1998, and see they are selling for over $400k now. I'd never pay $400k for those places. Remote work has really destroyed affordable housing costs in SW Ontario.

If you think remote work even moves the needle on the affordable housing crisis, you can’t be helped

 

[Clark4Ever]

If you think remote work even moves the needle on the affordable housing crisis, you can’t be helped

Remote work probably hasn't had much of an impact on the real estate market in Toronto, but it has slowly but surely driven the housing prices up in other remote parts of the country for Torontonians that are looking to live mortgage free.

 

[Stephen]

People need to stop bringing that up. They immediately scored 2 goals on him and then stopped.

Insiders/dubas reported that there were calls to the league as they were in a playoff race.

It looked like some players were trying. Some completely stopped. Literally one ebug has lost a game and it was on a deflection.

The stars got the lead and neither team even tried to score again.

The leafs have plenty of failures/chokes.

But that was a no win situation.

Why? Couldn’t they have embarrassed Carolina and David Ayres, scored a touchdown and kicked sand in their faces? Just win. And enjoy it.

 

[uncleben]

Don't disagree. Just wanted to have some balance that there are other benefits Toronto can't off. Heck for housing it's gone beyond GTA. Sold a condo in London for $70k in 1998, and see they are selling for over $400k now. I'd never pay $400k for those places. Remote work has really destroyed affordable housing costs in SW Ontario.

Your point stands, and I don't want to get into politics, but remote work, while technically a factor, is a drop in the bucket that is the real estate crisis in Ontario/GTA

 

[4thline]

Remote work probably hasn't had much of an impact on the real estate market in Toronto, but it has slowly but surely driven the housing prices up in other remote parts of the country for Torontonians that are looking to live mortgage free.

"Slowly"

Property on my (country) road that sat on the market and didn't sell under 800 in late 2018 went on the market at 950 in 2020, software developer came out of nowhere and bullied at 1.2 in the first week.

 

[Kurtz]

You are right. I did a little more reading up on things. Read an interesting article today. We know Leaf’s are Known to use this to their advantage to sign players

Auston Matthews Shoots and Scores Tax Savings | Crowe Soberman LLP
Good to read whole thing but here’s an excerpt….

Since 2016, Canadian income tax rates have been higher than all U.S. states’. So, the ultimate cost to a U.S.-resident athlete playing in Toronto is the difference between his U.S. tax rate (between 37 and 50 per cent, depending on the state) and his rate in Ontario, which tops out at 53.5 per cent. This delta between Canadian and U.S. tax rates has been an oft-used argument by some players and agents to avoid signing with Canadian teams.

Enter the concept of signing bonuses. These have become popular in professional sports, especially in the National Hockey League. A signing bonus is defined as a sum of money paid to an employee as an enticement or incentive to join a particular organization or sign a new contract. Exactly what an athlete might need to convince him to join a Canadian team like the Leafs.

From a tax perspective in Canada, a signing bonus is simple: the amount of the bonus is treated as ordinary employment income, and is taxable in the year received. But, when a U.S.-resident athlete receives a signing bonus to play in the NHL for a Canadian team, a special quirk of the Canada-U.S. income tax treaty kicks in.

The treaty provides that a signing bonus paid by a Canadian NHL team to a U.S.-resident player would be taxable in Canada – but that tax may not exceed 15 per cent of the gross amount of the payment.

Assuming the player’s U.S. tax rate exceeds 15 per cent (it does, remember the 37-50 per cent), the bonus would effectively be taxable at a combined rate equal to his normal U.S. rates. And so, there is no Canadian tax cost disadvantage on the signing bonus amount.

Sounds like there is no disadvantage to a player with US residency like Matthews, but non-US residents like say Nylander and Marner would still be getting hurt by the higher rates.

Or do all of them simply establish residency in Florida or something?

 

[WTFMAN99]

This was brought up on Twitter and although it's a vile thing...god damn, this didn't click in for me until I read it;

17 NHL players have signed for a cap hit of $10M or more… only 2 have not signed for the maximum available term. Marner and Matthews

Wild.

 

[ULF_55]

If you think remote work even moves the needle on the affordable housing crisis, you can’t be helped

What I mean by that is people left Toronto, moved into other cities during the "work from home during the pandemic" and drove up prices everywhere.
One of my co-workers just left a decent paying job here (Calgary) to work for a Toronto company. He isn't moving though, just getting Toronto $$ and staying put.
Condo we sold 25 years ago is going for over $400k because it's 5 minutes to the 401, and even going once a week to the mandatory office meeting is still worth driving up the prices in that LCC 33.

 

[ULF_55]

Your point stands, and I don't want to get into politics, but remote work, while technically a factor, is a drop in the bucket that is the real estate crisis in Ontario/GTA

Have read articles about people who moved out of Toronto because of COVID and being able to remote, and some said if they called them back to the office they'd quit their jobs and look locally but have to make some "adjustments."

You don't need 2 new cars right? One new one junker should be good enough.

 

[LeafSteel]

This was brought up on Twitter and although it's a vile thing...god damn, this didn't click in for me until I read it;

17 NHL players have signed for a cap hit of $10M or more… only 2 have not signed for the maximum available term. Marner and Matthews

Wild.

Yes, but we are soooooooo lucky to have them so we have the privilege of catering to their every whim and need.

Honestly, these should be the best of times with the talent level we have being something we haven't had in DECADES, but because of Marner and Matthews specifically, we have these entitled done nothing yet personalities, oblivious to the realities and the constraints of a salary cap.

They've already, along with Dubas' blundering, limited us at being a competitive, well-rounded team, and will likely cost us a very good player in Nylander, who appears to get the "take a bit less for the good of the team" a lot better than the other 2.

 

[WTFMAN99]

What I mean by that is people left Toronto, moved into other cities during the "work from home during the pandemic" and drove up prices everywhere.
One of my co-workers just left a decent paying job here (Calgary) to work for a Toronto company. He isn't moving though, just getting Toronto $$ and staying put.
Condo we sold 25 years ago is going for over $400k because it's 5 minutes to the 401, and even going once a week to the mandatory office meeting is still worth driving up the prices in that LCC 33.

Immigration is another thing, although they don't all land in Toronto...but I think it's something like 700k people are coming into this country and we're already experiencing a housing shortage.

I have done pretty well for myself but I think owning 1 property or maybe 2 (main + cottage) should be it - no need to own like 10 places for rental income...some people or their kids might actually have a chance to own a home some day this way.

 

[Clark4Ever]

This was brought up on Twitter and although it's a vile thing...god damn, this didn't click in for me until I read it;

17 NHL players have signed for a cap hit of $10M or more… only 2 have not signed for the maximum available term. Marner and Matthews

Wild.

That says a lot.

 

[LeafSteel]

That says a lot.

Honestly, it's quite damning and should make it IDIOT proof that these contracts demanded and Dubas' acquiescence to them are completely out of whack with the reality of NHL, both pre-COVID and (hopefully, please God) post-COVID.

These guys need to get that this isn't their personal gravy-train and unless they buy in, I would rather rip the band-aid off quickly, and move on from anyone who can't let go of the pigs to the trough mentality we've already seen.

 

[Burnie97]

Yes, but we are soooooooo lucky to have them so we have the privilege of catering to their every whim and need.

Honestly, these should be the best of times with the talent level we have being something we haven't had in DECADES, but because of Marner and Matthews specifically, we have these entitled done nothing yet personalities, oblivious to the realities and the constraints of a salary cap.

They've already, along with Dubas' blundering, limited us at being a competitive, well-rounded team, and will likely cost us a very good player in Nylander, who appears to get the "take a bit less for the good of the team" a lot better than the other 2.

All the talent but mostly zero guts... can we win with them... or some of them ... YES.

But it's really frustrating to watch the 93 or 94 teams or the early 2000s and it's petty clear what's missing.

People giving a f*** during the STANLEY CUP playoffs.

It's the shot you take in road hockey as a 5 year old on net ... if you get it you win the cup. So many kids dream of that.

Some of these guys don't f***ing get it. Are they great players... absolutely. I don't even care about points so much in the playoffs.

Sometimes they just don't go in... but the Florida playoff series.. no one even crashed Bob in the net. In the 90s he'd be getting challenged constantly.

There's my rant for the day.

 

[Apex Predator]

This was brought up on Twitter and although it's a vile thing...god damn, this didn't click in for me until I read it;

17 NHL players have signed for a cap hit of $10M or more… only 2 have not signed for the maximum available term. Marner and Matthews

Wild.

I was told the Matthews/Marners contracts were normal or the way of the future?

 

[ACC1224]

This was brought up on Twitter and although it's a vile thing...god damn, this didn't click in for me until I read it;

17 NHL players have signed for a cap hit of $10M or more… only 2 have not signed for the maximum available term. Marner and Matthews

Wild.

That just means Dubas was smarter than the other 15 GMs. Keep up.

That says a lot.

A lot about who?

 

[Evilhomer]

Sounds like there is no disadvantage to a player with US residency like Matthews, but non-US residents like say Nylander and Marner would still be getting hurt by the higher rates.

Or do all of them simply establish residency in Florida or something?

It's unfortunate that fans keep bringing up this tax point. It is simply false. My God, these guys all have tax lawyers in both countries who ensure that their taxes are reduced or deferred by the maximum amount possible. I know - I have lawyers in my office who act for many US, Canadian and international professional athletes, musicians, actors, etc. I promise you that Dallas and Florida have no greater advantage from a tax perspective than Winnipeg or Ottawa. A $10 million contract in Florida has the same net value as a $10 million contract with any other team.

 

[BallardEra]

Unfortunately I can't read this but I know the writer is a notorious Leafs hater:

The Maple Leafs aren’t moving forward. In sports that means they are slipping backward

Only the Maple Leafs would mistake collapsing a house down on its head for a construction project

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[Eternal Leaf]

This was brought up on Twitter and although it's a vile thing...god damn, this didn't click in for me until I read it;

17 NHL players have signed for a cap hit of $10M or more… only 2 have not signed for the maximum available term. Marner and Matthews

Wild.

That says it all about these two.

And they're trying to do it all over again. These guys should quit hockey and head to wall street to better suit their personalities.

 

[ACC1224]

That says it all about these two.

And they're trying to do it all over again. These guys should quit hockey and head to wall street to better suit their personalities.

If you recall both wanted 8 years and Dubas negotiated his way out of it.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Sounds like there is no disadvantage to a player with US residency like Matthews, but non-US residents like say Nylander and Marner would still be getting hurt by the higher rates.

There is still a disadvantage to players with US residency that get signing bonuses, because there are costs - both financial and otherwise - to qualify for US residency when that's not where your home team is.

That says a lot.

It actually says pretty much nothing, while achieving the objective of sounding like it's saying something.

 

[ULF_55]

If you recall both wanted 8 years and Dubas negotiated his way out of it.

Did they?

Speculation repeated enough times takes on an air of fact.

I'm not disagreeing but, heck I don't believe much of anything anymore.

 

[nuck]

If you recall both wanted 8 years and Dubas negotiated his way out of it.

He couldn't afford 8 years with AM. After the Matthews signing the numbers were described a compromise to fit things into the Leafs cap. I hadn't heard that same story with Mitch although I think 8 x 8 was talked about as a number from the summer before he broke out. It doesn't make sense that he wouldn't have offered Mitch 8 instead of 5 for the actual deal but presumably the Marner camp was worried about future cap growth like Team Matthews.

Matthews, 21, agreed to a five-year, US$58.17-million contract on Tuesday, which has an average annual value (AAV) of US$11.634-million. He could have insisted on the maximum term allowed under the NHL’s collective agreement, eight years, and for a little higher AAV than the highest-paid player in the league, Connor McDavid of the Edmonton Oilers, who averages US$12.5-million. But this is where the cake comes in.

By lowering his initial demand for an eight-year deal to five and in turn lowering the AAV, Matthews allowed the Leafs some relief on the salary cap, perhaps about US$2-million a year, but they think it is enough to get their other budding superstar, Mitch Marner, signed this summer along with a few other pending restricted free agents.

 

[Clark4Ever]

A lot about who?

Matthews and Marner.

 

[ACC1224]

He couldn't afford 8 years with AM. After the Matthews signing the numbers were described a compromise to fit things into the Leafs cap. I hadn't heard that same story with Mitch although I think 8 x 8 was talked about as a number from the summer before he broke out. It doesn't make sense that he wouldn't have offered Mitch 8 instead of 5 for the actual deal but presumably the Marner camp was worried about future cap growth like Team Matthews.

Matthews, 21, agreed to a five-year, US$58.17-million contract on Tuesday, which has an average annual value (AAV) of US$11.634-million. He could have insisted on the maximum term allowed under the NHL’s collective agreement, eight years, and for a little higher AAV than the highest-paid player in the league, Connor McDavid of the Edmonton Oilers, who averages US$12.5-million. But this is where the cake comes in.

By lowering his initial demand for an eight-year deal to five and in turn lowering the AAV, Matthews allowed the Leafs some relief on the salary cap, perhaps about US$2-million a year, but they think it is enough to get their other budding superstar, Mitch Marner, signed this summer along with a few other pending restricted free agents.

Yeah Marner was 8.5x8, I couldn’t remember the Matthews details just that the player preferred 8.

Matthews and Marner.

They both would have taken 8