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Trades and Free Agency - 2022 Off-season

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Dekes For Days said:
ITT: Horrible contracts aren't horrible if they're so horrible that the players break down to the point of being incapable of playing and the team is lucky enough that they can go on LTIR.

:rolleyes:
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Someone said this?

zeke said:
Dont you remember that we were in caphell at the time and the timely appearances of Robidas Island saved us?
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So both players went on LTIR costing the Leafs 0 assets. Am I missing something?
 
Americanadian said:
Someone said this?


So both players went on LTIR costing the Leafs 0 assets. Am I missing something?
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Yes i think you're (intentionally) missing that we were all pleasantly surprised that Robidas and Lupul suddenly developed career ending injuries just in time for us to get rid of our biggest cap headaches.
 
zeke said:
Yes i think you're (intentionally) missing that we were all pleasantly surprised that Robidas and Lupul suddenly developed career ending injuries just in time for us to get rid of our biggest cap headaches.
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So again - how was this "jumping through hoops"? For reference the Leafs were already into LTIR that season with Horton's contract.

www.capfriendly.com

Toronto Maple Leafs Daily Cap Tracker - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Daily salary cap tracking details including majors, minors, taxi squad, projected cap hit, and accumulated cap hit details for the Toronto Maple Leafs NHL team
www.capfriendly.com www.capfriendly.com

Edit: As I said earlier - I'm not arguing they were good contacts. I am arguing that claiming they had to "jump through hoops" to dump Lupul, Robidas, Gardiner is a disingenuous statement and you don't need to make things up about the Nonis era to make it looks worse.
 
Americanadian said:
So again - how was this "jumping through hoops"? For reference the Leafs were already into LTIR that season with Horton's contract.

www.capfriendly.com

Toronto Maple Leafs Daily Cap Tracker - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Daily salary cap tracking details including majors, minors, taxi squad, projected cap hit, and accumulated cap hit details for the Toronto Maple Leafs NHL team
www.capfriendly.com www.capfriendly.com

Edit: As I said earlier - I'm not arguing they were good contacts. I am arguing that claiming they had to "jump through hoops" to dump Lupul, Robidas, Gardiner is a disingenuous statement and you don't need to make things up about the Nonis era to make it looks worse.
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I would humbly suggest that any contract whose going on LTIR spurs mass celebration amongst the fanbase and the creation of the legendary Robidas Island and the lionization of Don Lamoriello the Godfather is, perhaps, a pretty bad contract.

I would also suggest that the fact that Robidas Island earned legendary status does show that these were not just typical LTIR situations and were in fact Lou jumping through hoops and wowing us all.
 
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zeke said:
I would humbly suggest that any contract whose going on LTIR spurs mass celebration amongst the fanbase and the creation of the legendary Robidas Island and the lionization of Don Lamoriello the Godfather is, perhaps, not pretty bad contract.
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You are quoting a post where I said they are not good contracts to argue that they are not good contracts. I don't think we're on the same wave length here.

Again - they didn't have to "jump through hoops" to put these players on LTIR. That is all that I am arguing.
 
Americanadian said:
You are quoting a post where I said they are not good contracts to argue that they are not good contracts. I don't think we're on the same wave length here.

Again - they didn't have to "jump through hoops" to put these players on LTIR. That is all that I am arguing.
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Well, Robidas Island didnt become a legend just because of some average old ltirs.

But im not going to argue aboit the definition of jumping through hoops.
 
zeke said:
Well, Robidas Island didnt become a legend just because of some average old ltirs.

But im not going to argue aboit the definition of jumping through hoops.
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This is what this has been about from the start. Your initial post stated these contracts were dumped.

Americanadian said:
I appreciate the detailed rundown. The bolded comment seems a little disingenuous though.
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If Dubas wants to make a BIG splash, Patrick Kane would be a huge addition at 50% retention.
 
zeke said:
LTIR isnt free.
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So what exactly did it cost the team to put them on LTIR? I understand there's actual dollars that are paid out to these players (usually by insurance companies) - but for this exact conversation what business were the Leafs unable to conduct due to Lupul/Robidas going on LTIR?
 
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Americanadian said:
So what exactly did it cost the team to put them on LTIR? I understand there's actual dollars that are paid out to these players (usually by insurance companies) - but for this exact conversation what business were the Leafs unable to conduct due to Lupul/Robidas going on LTIR?
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Holy poop, man, this is exhausting.

They were horrible contracts that we all celebrated were disappeared, whether that was by pure luck of them suddenly becoming completely unable to play or by Lou's shenanigans.

LTIR means no capspace can be accrued during the year, which mesns we were unable to build up a kitty for trade deadline deals like other teams were.
 
zeke said:
Holy poop, man, this is exhausting.

They were horrible contracts that we all celebrated were disappeared, whether that was by pure luck of them suddenly becoming completely unable to play or by Lou's shenanigans.

LTIR means no capspace can be accrued during the year, which mesns we were unable to build up a kitty for trade deadline deals like other teams were.
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Couldn't agree more with the bolded.

As I previously mentioned - the Leafs were already into LTIR with Horton on the books so adding Lupul/Robidas was redundant. This is why the Leafs went out and acquired Clarkson's contract back in 2019 for an asset (4th rd pick). I don't understand why you continue to argue that the Leafs had to "dump" or "jump through hoops" or "pay extra cost" when it's simply not true.

Also - for the 3rd time now: no one is saying they were good contracts.
 
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LeafChief said:
This is one of the more pointless arguments I've seen in this thread.
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It seems to be yet another "I refuse to concede any point" argument. It does get tedious. There are a very few posters that believe they must defend each and every statement they utter and double down especially when that statement is proven false. Shades of the Monty Python "Dead Parrot" sketch but without the humour.
 
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Americanadian said:
Couldn't agree more with the bolded.

As I previously mentioned - the Leafs were already into LTIR with Horton on the books so adding Lupul/Robidas was redundant. This is why the Leafs went out and acquired Clarkson's contract back in 2019 for an asset (4th rd pick). I don't understand why you continue to argue that the Leafs had to "dump" or "jump through hoops" or "pay extra cost" when it's simply not true.

Also - for the 3rd time now: no one is saying they were good contracts.
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Ok we both agree they were bad contracts that we were incredibly fortunate to get out from under just in time.

You strenuously object to Robidas Island being described as jumping through hoops. Noted.
 
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zeke said:
I would humbly suggest that any contract whose going on LTIR spurs mass celebration amongst the fanbase and the creation of the legendary Robidas Island and the lionization of Don Lamoriello the Godfather is, perhaps, a pretty bad contract.

I would also suggest that the fact that Robidas Island earned legendary status does show that these were not just typical LTIR situations and were in fact Lou jumping through hoops and wowing us all.
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It might have appeared so at the time, but today we know LTIR is an easy and convenient method of hiding Cap.

None of those approach the Pronger scenario.
 
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zeke said:
Ok we both agree they were bad contracts that we were incredibly fortunate to get out from under just in time.

You strenuously object to Robidas Island being described as jumping through hoops. Noted.
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For reference - this is the statement I strenuously object:

zeke said:
Note: most significant signings made by Nonis had to be dumped at extra cost - Clarkson, Robidas, Kessel, Gardiner, Lupul
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I wonder if Detroit would be interested in something around Sandin for Rasmussen?

Third line of

Engvall - Rasmussen - Jarnkrok
 
LeafChief said:
Really starting to wonder what the plan is with Simmonds. Ever since his wrist injury in that first season against te Canucks, he's really taken a step back. I'd like to see someone like ZAR signed for 1 million, completely replacing Simmonds but I truly wonder if they'd waive Simmonds.

Regardless of what they do, Simmonds shouldn't be a regular in the lineup this season.
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Yeah, he’s gotta be on the outside looking in. There’s too many guys on the right side just brought in.
I’m seeing three waiver risks on the roster that I’d keep over him at this point.
He seems like a good front office add in the near future.
 
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I keep circling back to a Muzzin trade that brings back a 2nd pair RHD that is cheaper.
Mayfield +?

Reilly Brodie
Sandin Mayfield
Gio Liljgren

Essentially two second pairs.
Saves about 4m on the cap.
Lets you add another 3 decent guys and Sandin.

ZAR + Statsny + De Haan could be had.

Bunting - Matthews - Nylander
Robertson - Tavares - Marner
Jarnk - Statsny - Kerfoot
ZAR - Kampf - Engval
Aube-Kubel Gaudette

Loose a bit of the Muzzin presence on the back end but get a huge addition yo the forward depth.
 
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