Trades and Free Agency - 2022 Off-season

[Avilaj07]

To Toronto-
Chychrun
Hayton

To Arizona-
Nylander
Sandin

To Toronto-
JT Miller

To Vancouver-
Kerfoot
Robertson
1st Round Pick

Sign Sonny Milano 2yrs/1.1mil aav
Sign Evan Rodriguez 2yrs/2 mil aav

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Miller-Tavares-Rodriguez
Milano-Hayton-Jarnkrok
Engvall-Kampf-Aubel

Rielly-Chychrun
Muzzin-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren

 

[4thline]

Question i just thought of... if he signs november 30.. with 28% of the season gone does he only receive 72% of his salary or 100%

This may be a stupid question but I just thought of it

To be honest I can't remember. Last time I really dove into the CBA on this stuff was the Nylander negotiation

 

[Torontonian]

What is Dubas going to do? Or more so, what do you think he should do?

I'd recommend just playing hardball, he's not a Nylander type player where we need him in our top 6. Tell him to sign a fair contract by opening day or risk not playing the entire season, Sandin has literately no leverage at all in this process.

Toronto can't afford to have him at a higher cap hit throughout the season if he signs late, every dollar matters when making trades at the deadline.

 

[Shooter2x]

Marner is twice the player than nylander

Marner as good as nylander at scoring
Marner better hockey IQ
Marner better defensively

Too much to list

Nylander is too inconsistent
Scores ten points in 10 games disappears for 10
Terrible defensively
Is never on the ice in the last few minutes of any game when we are leading

Your bullshit fact about marner sitting out the season isnt the reason he got paid.
He got paid because Dubas recognizes how good he is.

The report’s we’re willy wanted 8 and Dubss offered 6. Willy sat out 3 months for his money. Cost the team a 10.2 million cap hit. Almost twice his AAV. Came into camp fat and out of shape and gave the team the total sum of 27 points for the year.
Willy may score 90 but he has to improve his consistency and learn how to play in his own end. We shall

Marner would have sat out if him and Dubas were off on AAV or term.

Dispute why that statement is false instead of your useless rant.

Nylanders character was being questioned in contrast to Marners when in reality Marner proves nothing negative about Nylander.

 

[Apex Predator]

Doesn't he have the same agent as Nylander? Dubas needs to grow a spine, this is becoming a joke.

Dubas is doing the right thing and standing pat. Give him the offer around the range as Lilegren. It’s there whenever you want to sign. No one is going to offer sheet Sandin so he can sit all year if he wants.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Question i just thought of... if he signs november 30.. with 28% of the season gone does he only receive 72% of his salary or 100%

This may be a stupid question but I just thought of it

Capfriendly has a pretty good breakdown of the formula here: NHL CBA FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

But let's say Sandin signs a two year $1.4M contract Nov 30, the cap hit will be as follows.:

Year 1: $1.924M
Year 2: $0.713M

 

[Shooter2x]

Dubas is doing the right thing and standing pat. Give him the offer around the range as Lilegren. It’s there whenever you want to sign. No one is going to offer sheet Sandin so he can sit all year if he wants.

If Nylander finishes the next two seasons in the 80-90 point range, which even his haters would assume he can manage, he correctly told Dubas his worth with the 8x8.

You can think of it as Nylander as a UFA today and we lock him up 4 years x 8 mil to be a 80-90 player. Everyone would be okay with that so Nylanders whole contract situation is exaggerated and over blown.

My point: I trust Sandin will be worth the 2.5 or whatever mil he's asking for over 3 years. That's such a silly amount relative to his potential to play hard ball with.

 

[ULF_55]

I could see a scenario where Giordano is playing limited games and minutes and Muzzin spends time on the IR, so Sandin does have a chance to scratch out more time and establish himself on LD, or even the rotation on RD. The kid just has no leverage, I don't get why his focus isn't on taking a job.

Maybe because he's seen the history with Keefe?
Joe Thornton got playing time and he was done.

 

[CanHeDoIt99]

If Nylander finishes the next two seasons in the 80-90 point range, which even his haters would assume he can manage, he correctly told Dubas his worth with the 8x8.

You can think of it as Nylander as a UFA today and we lock him up 4 years x 8 mil to be a 80-90 player. Everyone would be okay with that so Nylanders whole contract situation is exaggerated and over blown.

My point: I trust Sandin will be worth the 2.5 or whatever mil he's asking for over 3 years. That's such a silly amount relative to his potential to play hard ball with.

The difference is that while Sandin is a good player, one they hope can take a step - hes currently penciled in as a 3rd pairing guy barring injury and/or significant development to become a top four guy. Nylander was a top six forward at the time he held out.

If Sandin goes 3+ years the number will come up from 1.4 surely. I'm curious if the Leafs have put an offer at 3 years - what that AAV looks like. Probably less than 2.5, but what if it's Holl's AAV at 2M?

No reason to go above what they're comfortable given the circumstance. The player wants a legitimate role, holding out and starting the season without much time at camp (if at all) isn't going to help him get more minutes. If its money related then a 1 or 2 year deal makes sense.

 

[andora]

Capfriendly has a pretty good breakdown of the formula here: NHL CBA FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

But let's say Sandin signs a two year $1.4M contract Nov 30, the cap hit will be as follows.:

Year 1: $1.924M
Year 2: $0.713M

Salary paid not hit in this particular question

I assume he does lose salary hence the cap hit penalty based on bonuses

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Salary paid not hit in this particular question

I assume he does lose salary hence the cap hit penalty based on bonuses

he would lose salary yes. likely won't have bonuses that effect cap hit.

 

[andora]

he would lose salary yes. likely won't have bonuses that effect cap hit.

yeah i think i kinda answered it by realizing signing bonuses are a way of getting the player his money versus salary he would lose - but then by using signing bonuses it makes the prorated cap hit higher (penalty)..

 

[Menzinger]

Rielly - forever
Muzzin - 2 years
Giordano - 2 years

Where is Sandin going to play?

No play no raise.
So in 2 years Sandin won't get a raise because he'll have no playing time to use as leverage.
He could then sign 1 year contract to take him to UFA status and walk.

It seems the Leafs would be willing to experiment with Sandin playing on the right side for a bit to see if it works. Believe he did that for a time with the Marlies

 

[Menzinger]

Anybody have an idea how much sandin would make playing in Sweden.

If he does he runs the chance of the leafs letting him stay there. They would still retain his rights

If he signs in Sweden how long do the leafs retain his rights

The highest paid player in the SHL reportedly makes about the equivalent of 370k USD. And Sandin won't get paid that. So essentially he'd be earning well under half of what he'd earn on a 1 year league minimum deal with the Leafs and obviously massively under what he'd earn if he signed similarly to Liljgren.

The Leafs have qualified him,.so they will retain his exclusive NHL rights for years.

His only way to an NHL career is through the Leafs front office - in one way or the other.

 

[Stephen]

Maybe because he's seen the history with Keefe?
Joe Thornton got playing time and he was done.

Could be. If I were to take Sandin’s side, I’d argue that Keefe and Dubas promote prospects like they’re presents on Christmas Day, but don’t have a structured integration and promotion plan for anyone coming up. The way they handled a lot of guys like Lehtonen, Barabanov, Robertson, Semyonov was extremely careless.

 

[Fogelhund]

 

[rocketman588]

View attachment 580403

Medium to low level risk for them

But if he plays to a similar level as last year that's a great deal

 

[SeaOfBlue]

View attachment 580403

They are certainly betting on him maintaining or improving upon his last year... And even then, that can be a major anchor for them. I don't see him outplaying that deal.

 

[Stephen]

If Nylander finishes the next two seasons in the 80-90 point range, which even his haters would assume he can manage, he correctly told Dubas his worth with the 8x8.

You can think of it as Nylander as a UFA today and we lock him up 4 years x 8 mil to be a 80-90 player. Everyone would be okay with that so Nylanders whole contract situation is exaggerated and over blown.

My point: I trust Sandin will be worth the 2.5 or whatever mil he's asking for over 3 years. That's such a silly amount relative to his potential to play hard ball with.

Before the flat cap, the Leafs were a little too loose with their RFAs, giving Johnsson and Kapanen some fairly generous bridge deals without a lot of track record. I don't think it's that the dollar amount that's the issue, but when any kid can pout and dictate a slight overpayment without having proven anything, I think it makes the organization a bit of a pushover.

 

[Stephen]

The highest paid player in the SHL reportedly makes about the equivalent of 370USD. And Sandin won't get paid that. So essentially he'd be earning well under half of what he'd earn on a 1 year league minimum deal with the Leafs and obviously massively under what he'd earn if he signed similarly to Liljgren.

The Leafs have qualified him,.so they will retain his exclusive NHL rights for years.

His only way to an NHL career is through the Leafs front office - in one way or the other.

The kid needs to focus on what he can do on the ice with the Leafs a little more and leave the boardroom tactics for when he's got more marketability. Such a half baked power negotiation here.

 

[rocketman588]

They are certainly betting on him maintaining or improving upon his last year... And even then, that can be a major anchor for them. I don't see him outplaying that deal.

He had 68 points and 38 goals in 78 games. If he plays at the exact same level even without improvement that's out performing the contract. Nylander has had one year better then that ppg wise for 6.9 and he's not playing on the sabers

The only issue is if he completely tanks

 

[Voodoo Child]

He had 68 points and 38 goals in 78 games. If he plays at the exact same level even without improvement that's out performing the contract. Nylander has had one year better then that ppg wise for 6.9 and he's not playing on the sabers

The only issue is if he completely tanks

Willy got his deal at age 22, after putting up back to back 60 point seasons.

Thompson will be turning 26 when the deal kicks in and has just one good season to his name.

Willy was an established young first line forward when he signed, up until this past season Thompson was a bust. He’s got a fantastic physical frame and the pay matches the production, but I think it’s right to be skeptical given his age and that scoring was high this year. Even accounting for Covid, if he had have been 22 this past year he gets 9, how much more potential is there with him?

I think it’ll probably be alright.

 

[BertCorbeau]

That Thompson deal is a big gamble for a one year breakout. I mean his career totals were so much less to date.

Comparable RFA deals:

Cirelli (25 y/o) - 8 years @ $6.25 AAV
Norris (23 y/o) - 8 years @ $7.95 AAV
Thomas (23 y/o) - 8 years @ $8.125 AAV

The best is Cirelli because of age .. Cirelli didn't have the career high like Thompson but he's been more proven in production. He's also been apart of Tampa's cup runs.

 

[Clyde Brewer]

To Toronto-
Chychrun
Hayton

To Arizona-
Nylander
Sandin

To Toronto-
JT Miller

To Vancouver-
Kerfoot
Robertson
1st Round Pick

Sign Sonny Milano 2yrs/1.1mil aav
Sign Evan Rodriguez 2yrs/2 mil aav

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Miller-Tavares-Rodriguez
Milano-Hayton-Jarnkrok
Engvall-Kampf-Aubel

Rielly-Chychrun
Muzzin-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren

I accept

 

[Stephen]

That Thompson deal is a big gamble for a one year breakout. I mean his career totals were so much less to date.

Comparable RFA deals:

Cirelli (25 y/o) - 8 years @ $6.25 AAV
Norris (23 y/o) - 8 years @ $7.95 AAV
Thomas (23 y/o) - 8 years @ $8.125 AAV

The best is Cirelli because of age .. Cirelli didn't have the career high like Thompson but he's been more proven in production. He's also been apart of Tampa's cup runs.

Buffalo really seems to be paying a premium for age and a 6'7" frame.