Trades and Free Agency - 2022/2023 Trade Deadline Edition
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SprDaVE
Moderator
- Sep 20, 2008
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If you think Nyquist, injured for half the season, is better than Kerfoot... I think we're on much different wave lengths. Kerfoot is a far superior overall player even looking past the injuries and this is classic "grass is greener on the other side" syndrome.
ZAR provides a lot of PK minutes, defensive abilities and physicality. A completely different role being provided.
Nyquist was playing a lot of minutes for a crappy Columbus team. Going from 18 or so minutes to 10 minutes is going to severely change how impactful he is. But I'm all for the Leafs to acquire as many fast and skilled players. I agree he'd be a far better option than Simmonds and Hunt, but that ain't saying much since they are pretty bad.
This is also assuming the Leafs don't acquire any other forward by the deadline.
notDatsyuk
Registered User
- Jul 20, 2018
- 11,854
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Eliminate the goalies, and let the team that just got scored on start with the puck in their end. The scores still wouldn't be as high, but you would have lots of end-to-end action and wild finishes, just like at the end of the all-star game.
notDatsyuk
Registered User
- Jul 20, 2018
- 11,854
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Pick up a 2LW, a 3C, and a 4th liner, plus a top pairing D, at the cost of only a 3LW and a second pair D.Really leaning this way now:
From Anaheim: Henrique and Comtois
From Chicago: Sam Lafferty
From Columbus: Andrew Peeke
Bunting-Matthews-Nylander
Comtois-Tavares-Marner
Jarnkrok-Henrique-Engvall
ZAR-Kampf- Lafferty
Rielly-Peeke
Gio-Brodie
Sandin-Liljegren
Move out Holl and Kerfoot. Engvall is also expendable here if needed for trade value or cap room. Lafferty could slot in 3RW and Holmberg draws in for 4RW
Keep Knies & Niemala, everything else should not be an exorbitant cost compared to what the more highly touted players to move would cost.
Improves our Team, doesn't break the bank and keeps our pipeline strong so that we are better next year as well.
Flame away, and Kyle, you are welcome that I just plotted your TDL for you.....
I like it.
How many virgins do we need to sacrifice on a black altar?
ULF_55
Moderator
thusk
Registered User
Not because you want a player like peekie than hes available outside of a huge overpayReally leaning this way now:
From Anaheim: Henrique and Comtois
From Chicago: Sam Lafferty
From Columbus: Andrew Peeke
Bunting-Matthews-Nylander
Comtois-Tavares-Marner
Jarnkrok-Henrique-Engvall
ZAR-Kampf- Lafferty
Rielly-Peeke
Gio-Brodie
Sandin-Liljegren
Move out Holl and Kerfoot. Engvall is also expendable here if needed for trade value or cap room. Lafferty could slot in 3RW and Holmberg draws in for 4RW
Keep Knies & Niemala, everything else should not be an exorbitant cost compared to what the more highly touted players to move would cost.
Improves our Team, doesn't break the bank and keeps our pipeline strong so that we are better next year as well.
Flame away, and Kyle, you are welcome that I just plotted your TDL for you.....
+ removing 1 of your 2 best defensive D and youre bewt penalty killer since beggining of season to add an other doesn't improving drastically in defensive end...
Macallan18
Registered User
- Aug 10, 2015
- 10,681
- 6,436
I hope we don't go into the trade market half-hearted.
I want Chychrun, I want Meir, I might settle for Jenner, very lukewarm now on ROR becuase of the injury but maybe.
BUT for god's sake don't give me replacement players that are NOT better then what we are playing now that cost us serious assets.
That actually wasn't what I posted, that all those changes happen at the cost of only Kerfoot and Holl. If I did say that, please highlight it n my post for me.
There is no question more assets will have to go out the door for it to happen, but it won't be Knies or Niemala as others are so quick to toss out.
You may want to reallocate the effort at snark to up the effort put into reading what was posted.
Peeke is better than Holl. Period. Holl is a UFA and will be asking minimum $4-5m next year, whereas Peeke still has term left..... and again, Peeke is better than Holl. Period. I have no problems swapping them.
I don't know who the "best penalty killer" here is that you are referring to, but if you are referring to Kerfoot, than we are not going to agree on anything if you feel Kerfoot is our best penalty killer. He has been relegated to a 4th line $3.5m role. He has underperformed and has never been able to solidify a top 6 LW role, which is what we need. If he's not part of the solution, than he is expendable and there is better value in the players I am proposing we bring in.
I think at least what the media is doing is that, they are portraying Schenn as a physical Defensive Dman that contenders are trying to get as depth. Which is true, however, what a lot of fans(not just Leafsnation) are just that Schenn is a depth Dman and not someone you play in the top 4 as a shutdown pairing.
He is a defensive Dman playing on one of the worst defensive team in the league.
thusk
Registered User
Yes holl will be ufa, doesn't mean its helpful to loose him for peekie before the end of regular season... leafs are in mod WIN NOW... ps he is the best leafs penalty killer
If columbus dont have any interest to trade peekie, leafs will need to give something like knies or niemela+1st at least to move him
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 82,814
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I would envision him as Zach Bogosian for us in 2021 but with more limited use if that makes sense. Don’t think he would make or break the D corps but there would be moments where I would want him as an option.
I definitely don't believe he was insinuating Kerfoot and Holl would be the only pieces going out.
Just not Knies or Niemela, which I'd agree with. There's clearly more assets that'd have to be involved.
Especially given Kerfoot and Holl would be cap moves, not of any real value to those teams as pending UFAs.
Probably more worthwhile for us to keep Holl if the cap could be otherwise worked out. Will need lots of defensemen in the playoffs. Always do. And I'm far from convinced Holl would be the first guy out of the lineup.
DarkKnight
Professional Amateur
- Jan 17, 2017
- 35,319
- 56,688
Seven years ago today the ”untradable contract” was traded, and a nation rejoiced…
Al14
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2007
- 24,459
- 5,979
Exactly! The trades should have been made on Sunday, so the player(s) could have practiced with the team all week leading up to the back to back with Columbus!!!
The sooner the new acquisitions play with our core, the sooner they should get to know the tendencies etc.
JMHO.
I don't understand what you are trying to say here, but if you feel the cost to acquire Peeke will be Knies+1st or Niemala+1st, then I'm moving on from Peeke and looking at Connor Murphy in Chicago.
If that is your proposed cost to get Peeke, that is an absolutely gross overpay. Again, I'm not clear what you were posting, but no way would Peeke garner that kind of return, nor should it be paid.
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No doubt about it, Leafs needs a physical Dman but I think with Schenn price tag, probably better off paying a bit more to get someone better or just use Benn. Bc I just don’t see Schenn playing over any of our 6 guys now when everyone is healthy.
Thank you for getting it.
I guess it's my fault for not idiot-proofing my post and not saying "along with other pieces". I just didn't expect that people would be so literal as to think that I was saying that all of those pieces would come for the bargain basement cost of Kerfoot and Holl.
Yessir, we can get 4 players from 3 different teams for 2 players off our roster and nothing else..... genius maneuvering on display here folks.....
Holl for Peeke is a great deal for the Leafs, not sure BJs would do it though, bc at best they can flip Holl for a 2nd rounder and a 4th rounder.
Kerfoot is just the odd man out at this point and I will be quite disappointed if he is not traded for the TDL
Are you of the belief that analysts are immune to making mistakes because they're on TV?
He's wrong.
thusk
Registered User
Peeke is for columbus whats liljegren is for the leafs...
And not sure if murphy is really an upgrade over holl... the grass is not greener in the other team...
Leafs would definitely need to add, and I would be fine with that. Peeke would have an important role with us and fit our long-term plan.
We will leave it at that then. What I've already said doesn't need to be repeated.
If he's not available or the price is ridiculous you simply move on.
He's not an analyst he's an insider he got the information from somewhere so must be something to it.
Fogelhund
Registered User
- Sep 15, 2007
- 24,149
- 29,142
Some interesting thoughts... many here are criticizing our 3rd line scoring... and then at the same time, want to move out Kerfoot and Engvall... and drastically reduce our 3rd line scoring, to load up on the 2nd line.
Here are our closest competitors in Pts/60..all data for players with minimum 200 minutes only.
Tampa;
Paul 1.58
Cirelli 1.16
Namestikov 1.14
Boston... ok, they are just insane this year.
Frederic 2.08
Hall 2.06
Coyle 2.0
Our current third line
Holmberg 2.24
Kerfoot 1.48
Engvall 1.48
The league average for "third line production is 1.405, with a range of 1.58 to 1.23... every one of our third liners is above league average, as a unit, well above average...... but we compare ourselves to Boston... and we are behind them.
Looking under the hood... one of the primary problems here, is none of these guys is a very good finisher... a whole bunch of setup, and not much finish.
So how to address this? Pick up a 2LW, and push Jarnkrok down? Pick up a 3C?
Jarnkrok is a pretty good 2.27 P/60, though that might go down with lesser linemates...
Henrique is a pretty good finisher, and might shine with Holmberg/Engvall.... 1.79 P/60
Noting Jenner, really is pretty abysmal at P/60, appreciating there is more to the game... 1.43
As fantastic a player as he is... Meier would be 8th on our team in P/60... 2.04 Of course his team has a poorer offense than ours does.
Top Pts/60 guy on Arizona... Crouse, 2.16
RoR is at 1.38
Comtois is 1.03 --> Of course we all know that he's a reclamation project.
Nyquist is 1.57
Peeke is abysmal offensively 0.36... but then you aren't getting him for offense.. Holl is 0.66.
""
Interesting note... the #4 D man in the NHL, in 5v5 pts/60 is... Connor Timmins.
#8 Chychrun.... Then again... Schenn is 19th so..... grain of salt on one stat.... Sandin is 140/227
I note that Jarkrok/Holmberg/Engvall has an expected goals as 59.5%, which is pretty solid, but actuals of 50%... I'm not sure if that's a small sample set of only 40 minutes... and you'd expect better over time? Jarnkrok is shooting at 18%, Engvall at 11.2%... so there is some finish there.
Noting... outside of faceoffs... Holmberg is VERY good, given his minutes, and linemates... Engvalls overall stats are pretty good too...
Ok... they are used different, and are different.. but sometimes this is entertaining.. Engvall is better than we give him credit for...
Plenty of information here, and you can conclude as you'd like... But here are some truths... if you want some size, and physicality... you probably want Crouse, Comtois, Schenn or Peeke... you can fit Meier in there too....
If you want to improve the 3C... I think it's Henrique... I know that Jenner and RoR provide other parts to their game, and that's important... but if we want to make a trade, to improve the production of the third line, the only right answer here is Henrique.
The other factor in all of this... is the cap, and of course, limited currency to obtain players. Do you want one big name, and spend it all there... or to fill in a few spots? Also, do you care about rental vs. player we can keep?
I really like Peeke, but he might not make the team better than Holl... today... a couple of years... sure... IMO, for the best run in the playoffs... don't make a trade here... in the offseason... approach Columbus about Peeke for next year and on. Holl may price himself out of a job here... I know, some of you will laugh.. but it's true.
So... back end physicality? Schenn? LOL... I mean... ummm... he's a #7 here... so it comes down to cost... Allegedly there is demand, which isn't our friend... but if it's a 3rd/4th.. or B prospect... I'm ok with that. A guy who platoons with Timmins in the playoffs.. Both bring some qualities to the game...
Physicality, and improve the 2/3 LW spots... well to me, Meier is spending all the dough in one trade, and not addressing anything else... so... I'm asking for Crouse... no idea if they'd trade him.. but that's our ideal target. You can play him on the second or third line, and it makes us better. And just because for giggles, ya, I think Chychrun over Sandin makes us better. Chychrun would probably shine here, and Sandin's skating continues to be a concern. Yes, I've stated I'm not really a Chychrun guy.. but taking a look at things.. I think it actually makes sense for us.
I just don't want to give up Knies...
Henrique @ 50% for Kerfoot, 2023 3rd, 2024 2nd
Chychrun, Crouse, McBain for 2023 1st, Sandin, 2024 1st, Robertson
Bunting Matthews Nylander/Marner
Crouse/Jarnkrok Tavares Marner/Nylander
Crouse/Jarnkrok Holmberg Engvall
ZAR/Knies Kampf McBain
Rielly Liljegren/Brodie
Chychrun Liljegren/Brodie
Giordano Timmins/Schenn
Benn/Mete
Here are our closest competitors in Pts/60..all data for players with minimum 200 minutes only.
Tampa;
Paul 1.58
Cirelli 1.16
Namestikov 1.14
Boston... ok, they are just insane this year.
Frederic 2.08
Hall 2.06
Coyle 2.0
Our current third line
Holmberg 2.24
Kerfoot 1.48
Engvall 1.48
The league average for "third line production is 1.405, with a range of 1.58 to 1.23... every one of our third liners is above league average, as a unit, well above average...... but we compare ourselves to Boston... and we are behind them.
Looking under the hood... one of the primary problems here, is none of these guys is a very good finisher... a whole bunch of setup, and not much finish.
So how to address this? Pick up a 2LW, and push Jarnkrok down? Pick up a 3C?
Jarnkrok is a pretty good 2.27 P/60, though that might go down with lesser linemates...
Henrique is a pretty good finisher, and might shine with Holmberg/Engvall.... 1.79 P/60
Noting Jenner, really is pretty abysmal at P/60, appreciating there is more to the game... 1.43
As fantastic a player as he is... Meier would be 8th on our team in P/60... 2.04 Of course his team has a poorer offense than ours does.
Top Pts/60 guy on Arizona... Crouse, 2.16
RoR is at 1.38
Comtois is 1.03 --> Of course we all know that he's a reclamation project.
Nyquist is 1.57
Peeke is abysmal offensively 0.36... but then you aren't getting him for offense.. Holl is 0.66.
""
Interesting note... the #4 D man in the NHL, in 5v5 pts/60 is... Connor Timmins.
#8 Chychrun.... Then again... Schenn is 19th so..... grain of salt on one stat.... Sandin is 140/227
I note that Jarkrok/Holmberg/Engvall has an expected goals as 59.5%, which is pretty solid, but actuals of 50%... I'm not sure if that's a small sample set of only 40 minutes... and you'd expect better over time? Jarnkrok is shooting at 18%, Engvall at 11.2%... so there is some finish there.
Noting... outside of faceoffs... Holmberg is VERY good, given his minutes, and linemates... Engvalls overall stats are pretty good too...
Ok... they are used different, and are different.. but sometimes this is entertaining.. Engvall is better than we give him credit for...
Plenty of information here, and you can conclude as you'd like... But here are some truths... if you want some size, and physicality... you probably want Crouse, Comtois, Schenn or Peeke... you can fit Meier in there too....
If you want to improve the 3C... I think it's Henrique... I know that Jenner and RoR provide other parts to their game, and that's important... but if we want to make a trade, to improve the production of the third line, the only right answer here is Henrique.
The other factor in all of this... is the cap, and of course, limited currency to obtain players. Do you want one big name, and spend it all there... or to fill in a few spots? Also, do you care about rental vs. player we can keep?
I really like Peeke, but he might not make the team better than Holl... today... a couple of years... sure... IMO, for the best run in the playoffs... don't make a trade here... in the offseason... approach Columbus about Peeke for next year and on. Holl may price himself out of a job here... I know, some of you will laugh.. but it's true.
So... back end physicality? Schenn? LOL... I mean... ummm... he's a #7 here... so it comes down to cost... Allegedly there is demand, which isn't our friend... but if it's a 3rd/4th.. or B prospect... I'm ok with that. A guy who platoons with Timmins in the playoffs.. Both bring some qualities to the game...
Physicality, and improve the 2/3 LW spots... well to me, Meier is spending all the dough in one trade, and not addressing anything else... so... I'm asking for Crouse... no idea if they'd trade him.. but that's our ideal target. You can play him on the second or third line, and it makes us better. And just because for giggles, ya, I think Chychrun over Sandin makes us better. Chychrun would probably shine here, and Sandin's skating continues to be a concern. Yes, I've stated I'm not really a Chychrun guy.. but taking a look at things.. I think it actually makes sense for us.
I just don't want to give up Knies...
Henrique @ 50% for Kerfoot, 2023 3rd, 2024 2nd
Chychrun, Crouse, McBain for 2023 1st, Sandin, 2024 1st, Robertson
Bunting Matthews Nylander/Marner
Crouse/Jarnkrok Tavares Marner/Nylander
Crouse/Jarnkrok Holmberg Engvall
ZAR/Knies Kampf McBain
Rielly Liljegren/Brodie
Chychrun Liljegren/Brodie
Giordano Timmins/Schenn
Benn/Mete
Last edited:
The Podium
Registered User
I think this is 3rd on the Leafs recent untradeable contract list:
1. Clarkson
2. Zaitsev
3. Phaneuf
Marleau is somewhere up there too
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