Trades and Free Agency 2021 | Trade Deadline 6 weeks away

[IrishInOntario]

Doubt they're moving on that quickly and I'd rather have Muzzin the following 2 years than Rielly for 8M.

I disagree with that unless Sandin or Liljegren prove to be on Reilly's level offensively. I try to extend him for 7.5-8.0 if I can. He's not a Chabot, Josi, Doughty, Pietrangelo type where I want to pay him 9 million+... But he'll be 28 by time he needs a new contract and if I can get him for 5-6 years and pay him until he's 33-34 I think that's perfect. If he comes in anything under 8.0, I think it's a no brainer. Personally, I'd rather get all of Reilly's prime years, than keep Muzzin into his 33rd year, as he's moving out of his prime. I also think you can still return a quality young defenseman who fits into your future for Muzzin at 32-33, which is better asset management than letting Reilly walk as an FA.

I think if you get this year's run with Muzzin and another one next year, you've done pretty good considering he's a typical, quality, #3 guy.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I disagree with that unless Sandin or Liljegren prove to be on Reilly's level offensively. I try to extend him for 7.5-8.0 if I can. He's not a Chabot, Josi, Doughty, Pietrangelo type where I want to pay him 9 million+... But he'll be 28 by time he needs a new contract and if I can get him for 5-6 years and pay him until he's 33-34 I think that's perfect. If he comes in anything under 8.0, I think it's a no brainer. Personally, I'd rather get all of Reilly's prime years, than keep Muzzin into his 33rd year, as he's moving out of his prime. I also think you can still return a quality young defenseman who fits into your future for Muzzin at 32-33, which is better asset management than letting Reilly walk as an FA.

To each their own

 

[IrishInOntario]

To each their own

Exactly.

Reilly isn't perfect, but #1/#2 defensemen don't come along in your organization very often. Good franchises get all of their prime years when they do. I'd be sick to watch 28 year old Reilly walk in FA, returning Toronto no assets, with 5-6 years left in his prime. By time Toronto is making that decision (the end of 2022), you get maybe 2 more years of quality Jake Muzzin, at the back end of his prime. I'll take 5-6 years any day, over 2 years, as long as the money differential is reasonable (2-2.5 million).

Again, the caveat in me saying that is that if Sandin or Liljegren take a big jump in the next 1.5 years and show that they legitimately could replace Reilly as a #1 guy, I'm certainly willing to entertain moving on from him via trade for a 1st rounder + at the 2022 trade deadline. Again, I have no interest in losing him in free agency.

That's a guy that many project to Canada's Olympic Team and despite not being a defensive monster, he still has 18 points in 23 games this year, which projects a hell of a lot closer to the outstanding 72 point season he had in 2018, than the down season he had in 2019. He's on what? A 65'ish point pace this year? Those guys are coveted.

 

[Faltorvo]

It would be 1.5 years and if you think he gives you two serious runs at the cup you might role the dice.

ok,,,,, lets add this up and i will go along with this 50% retained fantasy

Robertson gone,,,,,,,and what else will it cost?

3 million added to next seasons cap ,,bringing our space down to 9.5m with 14 guys signed

notable UFAs Hyman/andersson and we have to go to the 7/3 protection list

so goodbye Holl(exp draft) and goodbye Hyman (since FF just took his cap spot/slot)

after next season FF and Rielly are both UFA s

all this for that winger??

no thank you

 

[ToneDog]

ok,,,,, lets add this up and i will go along with this 50% retained fantasy

Robertson gone,,,,,,,and what else will it cost?

3 million added to next seasons cap ,,bringing our space down to 9.5m with 14 guys signed

notable UFAs Hyman/andersson and we have to go to the 7/3 protection list

so goodbye Holl(exp draft) and goodbye Hyman (since FF just took his cap spot/slot)

after next season FF and Rielly are both UFA s

all this for that winger??

no thank you

Sure there will be challanges but we have the smartest capologists in the game. Andy will free up cap, and you could move a Kerfoot, Nylander and Muzzin. Would help if Sandin and Lily can make the jump up. Lots of possibilities.

If you win the Cup, it takes some of the pressure off

 

[Faltorvo]

If you move on from Freddy Anderson and go with a 1a and 1b style trandem, you save probably 1.5 million there. You move a 32-33 year old Jake Muzzin (after next year) and you free up 5.6 million there. Phil Kessel's 1.2 million comes off the books at the same time. You use Nylander's contract (plus inflation) as the basis for Forsberg and give him something like 7.25-7.5×5. Reilly gets a raise up into the 8.0 million range, so basically you need 4.5 million to get it done. After you replace Muzzin with Sandin or Liljegren, I just freed about 7.5 million, which means you still have room to spare.

Your core for the next 5+ years becomes...

Forsberg / Matthews / Marner
Robertson / Tavares / Nylander
Hyman

Reilly / Brodie
Sandin / Holl
Liljegren

You round out the remaining 5 forward spots with vet FAs on minimum contracts (see Thornton, Spezza, Simmonds) and ELCs. Your defense core is basically set, while you keep trying to find Bogosian types for your bottom pair (or just keep him for a while). In the meantime you make sure you keep drafting defensemen, early in the draft, when they are BPA and keep the pipeline flowing. At the same time, keep your European connections coming relative to Mikheyev, Barabanov and Lehtonen types that you can give a shot in your bottom 6 and bottom pair.

thats cute,,very cute

we get FF at 50% retained and still keep our 3 top prospects?

and Andy gone/muzz gone? no thanks

 

[aingefan]

Not a bad depth player to look at as a minor move but I think the Leafs need to look at someone a whole lot more efficient and productive to upgrade their lineup.

I'd rather spend more assets to acquire someone that is actually good/very good rather than a potential project that could play better than he is now.

Fair call, but I never mind a guy that can play some wing and some C.
I liked him in the off-season.

 

[IrishInOntario]

thats cute,,very cute

we get FF at 50% retained and still keep our 3 top prospects?

and Andy gone/muzz gone? no thanks

What's cute about it?

Anderson might be gone, regardless, at season's end, especially if he wants any kind of considerable raise. It's completely reasonable that Dubas signs a guy in the 3.5 million range and runs said player and Campbell in split.

I also believe I've made a fairly compelling point that if you have to move on from one of Toronto's top 4 defenseman at the conclusion of 2022, 32 year old Jake Muzzin might be the best guy to move on from given that he'll be coming to the end of his prime years, but will still have quality trade value (see Mattias Ekholm) because a team in defensive need won't mind paying him 5.6 until he's 35. With Liljegren and Sandin coming up behind him, it might be prudent to plug one of those two in the #3 spot, save yourself 4.5 million in space and get a 1st rounder, or a 2nd + good prospect out of then 32 year old Muzzin.

 

[Faltorvo]

What's cute about it?

Anderson might be gone, regardless, at season's end, especially if he wants any kind of considerable raise. It's completely reasonable that Dubas signs a guy in the 3.5 million range and runs said player and Campbell in split.

I also believe I've made a fairly compelling point that if you have to move on from one of Toronto's top 4 defenseman at the conclusion of 2022, 32 year old Jake Muzzin might be the best guy to move on from given that he'll be coming to the end of his prime years, but will still have quality trade value (see Mattias Ekholm) because a team in defensive need won't mind paying him 5.6 until he's 35. With Liljegren and Sandin coming up behind him, it might be prudent to plug one of those two in the #3 spot, save yourself 4.5 million in space and get a 1st rounder, or a 2nd + good prospect out of then 32 year old Muzzin.

the fantasy land notion that we get a 50% retained FF

and keep roberts/sandin and lilly

all this for the last thing we need,,,a top 6 winger

robertson will be here soon enough

 

[Jozay]

Easier said than done, Engvall is limited offensively but he's extremely good defensively which makes him a great fit on a checking line

Sometimes it's about fit rather than straight up ability, you replace Engvall and make that line less effective defensively we get worse imo



Somebody has to go, Dermott seems like an acceptable sacrifice to me

I remember people saying that about the Marleau trade, don't trade 1st round picks beyond the current season

1st round pick this year traded? You bet I'm on board for the right player

1st round pick next year? No way

You're probably right, but im so all in this year.

 

[LeafSteel]

Main boards

Kerfoot isnt nearly enough for upcoming UFA David Savard, but Phil Danault is

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Main boards

Kerfoot isnt nearly enough for upcoming UFA David Savard, but Phil Danault is

Main boards:

Leafs fans drastically overrate the values of their players.

Also main boards:

Leafs' players have no value.

 

[7even]

Main boards

Kerfoot isnt nearly enough for upcoming UFA David Savard, but Phil Danault is

Oh yeah, it's big brain time

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[IrishInOntario]

the fantasy land notion that we get a 50% retained FF

and keep roberts/sandin and lilly

all this for the last thing we need,,,a top 6 winger

robertson will be here soon enough

Robertson a couple years away from being a legitimate top 6 winger. Probably 2 years at a minimum.

Also, I don't think there is anything Fantasy land about giving up...

Alex Kerfoot: Would be 3rd leading scorer on Nashville, who they'd flip for a 2nd round pick.

Rodion Amirov: The 15th overall pick in the 2021 NHL Draft. Projects as a top 6 winger.

Topi Niemela: Named top defenseman at the WJHC as an 18 year old. Check out the history of the guys who have won that award.

2021 first round pick: the value speaks for itself.

That's a great package for a team looking to rebuild.

 

[sxvnert]

Enough waiting. Make it happen.

 

[Blue Nate]

Enough waiting. Make it happen.

absolutely not. No Staals please.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Main boards:

Leafs fans drastically overrate the values of their players.

Also main boards:

Leafs' players have no value.

People value Danault as a #2 center and are hoping that he can return to the form he showed the last two years, given a fresh start. He put up 53 points two years ago. He was on a 50+ point 82 game pace last year.

Alex Kerfoot is a #3C or LW on a quality team, who can play up in the lineup if need be. He's never had more than 43 points in a season, and his 28 point season last year was nothing special either.

Objectively, if you look at a reasonable sample size, Danault has been the better, more valuable player thus far in his career, compared to Kerfoot. I'd value him a above Kerfoot as well.

 

[Critical13]

People value Danault as a #2 center and are hoping that he can return to the form he showed the last two years, given a fresh start. He put up 53 points two years ago. He was on a 50+ point 82 game pace last year.

Alex Kerfoot is a #3C or LW on a quality team, who can play up in the lineup if need be. He's never had more than 43 points in a season, and his 28 point season last year was nothing special either.

Objectively, if you look at a reasonable sample size, Danault has been the better, more valuable player thus far in his career, compared to Kerfoot. I'd value him a above Kerfoot as well.

I would love Danualt but it seems like you are ignoring that we lose control on Danault AND we give up assets to make up the difference. Steep price to pay, unless Montreal lets him go cheaply.

He would be my number 1 pure rental target, if the price is reasonable.

 

[IrishInOntario]

I would love Danualt but it seems like you are ignoring that we lose control on Danault AND we give up assets to make up the difference. Steep price to pay, unless Montreal lets him go cheaply.

He would be my number 1 pure rental target, if the price is reasonable.

I'm not suggesting that Toronto go after him. My response was to the above conversation about Columbus fans valuing Danault above Alexander Kerfoot in a potential David Savard trade. That seems completely obvious to me, but not to others, apparently.

 

[Cor]

Main boards

Kerfoot isnt nearly enough for upcoming UFA David Savard, but Phil Danault is

Why would we make that trade anyway.

 

[Kiwi]

You're probably right, but im so all in this year.

You not the only one, I'm all for throwing the kitchen sink at this season I just hate trading future firsts

I look at our past trades involving them and get PTSD

 

[Twine Tickler]

Exactly.

Reilly isn't perfect, but #1/#2 defensemen don't come along in your organization very often. Good franchises get all of their prime years when they do. I'd be sick to watch 28 year old Reilly walk in FA, returning Toronto no assets, with 5-6 years left in his prime. By time Toronto is making that decision (the end of 2022), you get maybe 2 more years of quality Jake Muzzin, at the back end of his prime. I'll take 5-6 years any day, over 2 years, as long as the money differential is reasonable (2-2.5 million).

Again, the caveat in me saying that is that if Sandin or Liljegren take a big jump in the next 1.5 years and show that they legitimately could replace Reilly as a #1 guy, I'm certainly willing to entertain moving on from him via trade for a 1st rounder + at the 2022 trade deadline. Again, I have no interest in losing him in free agency.

That's a guy that many project to Canada's Olympic Team and despite not being a defensive monster, he still has 18 points in 23 games this year, which projects a hell of a lot closer to the outstanding 72 point season he had in 2018, than the down season he had in 2019. He's on what? A 65'ish point pace this year? Those guys are coveted.

People will always find something to be critical. Mo is a tremendous player, and he plays a huge huge role for our team. He fortunately/unfortunately had such a magical season 2 seasons ago that it has become his benchmark. Truth is, that's a very hard thing to match. At the end of the day, Mo is a cornerstone of our franchise IMO. Can he be better than he has been this year? absolutely. But he has not been bad at all. People are delusional to think that. He is 23 games into the year and has 18pts, All while playing with a new defense partner for like the 5th year straight lol. He, like the team itself has gotten better as the season has gone on. For those who say he is not a #1 defenseman in the NHL, I am not sure how people can say that. That to me would infer that there are 31 defensemen in the league that are better than Mo...Which is completely not true. He is not a Hedman, Jones, Josi...etc but he definitely is a #1 d-man IMO

 

[Faltorvo]

Why would we make that trade anyway.

kerf for savard?

i make that trade faster then a heart beat

 

[BlueForever75]

I would rather have Kerfoot then Danault. Not sure what people are thinking. Would be counter productive to replace an effective player with someone that has been non-existent. On top of that, giving up assets for that player.