Rumor: Trade Thread XVIII: Brace Yourselves. Friday Is Coming.

[NernieBichols]

In all due respect I am not addressing your post solely. This post is my view addressing some issues I've noticed from few posters lately on the boards. Forgive my writing, some 45 years ago I achieved 450 on my English SAT's. Thus, I hope for the best.

First and foremost this a message board. It is one step removed from Fantasy hockey. Most posters are tolerant of others. However, Some wish to run this board as the thought police mandating the opinions that could be expressed. Some understand that everyone has a view which should be freely expressed.


Some Posts I agree with while some I believe to be unrealistic. If anyone or a collection of posters express their opinion what impact does this have on the teams play? If someone suggests an idea for trade and the team stands pat does that mean that they now need to root against the team? Suppose they do? Does it hinder the teams play? That's the posters problem. It shouldn't affect the reader. Debates are fine. Censorship, not so much.

Who cares how the media is handling the issues of Cally, for example? Who cares how other posters are dealing with the teams ups and downs (oops. I mean ups and ups)? How does the players families enter into the consideration of what should be posted regarding a trade on this message board? Are we now the GM's Although some of us think we are (back to fantasy hockey). Whose problem is it?

Since the Olympic break is on should everyone stop posting? Everyone should sit back and relax? Many posters shouldn't be ungrateful that they are watching possibly a team that could beat expectations (that's their problem)?

Why? Who decides what's right or wrong to post and the timing? Perhaps some readers need to chill out or use the ignore button if they don't like what's been presented?

I fear that this board is becomming unhinged. I am disappointed at times by some of the posts. Blow up the team, oops they won 3 in row, keep everyone , change the GM, etc are thoughts we've read at times. Sometimes in one day. Annoying? At times. Crazy? At times. But hey, this is a message board.

The problem I have found on this board has less to do with the posts rather than the ability of the posters to handle what has been written. Thus the thought police feels the needs to be on constant watch.

That's my disappointment with the board.

The end goal is to have fun not stifle the posters views

All the best.

Cheers and thank you for posting this. I try to be very respectful to all and their rights to have the same rights I have. But reading what you said, I observe the fact I can be more mindful when posting that I don't stifle another from expressing their views, no matter what they are.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I don't know why every post on here is dripping with sarcasm either. I just don't get it. Especially considering that I said I agree with you on a portion of your post.

Huh? I apologized and expressed a genuine sentiment that the one minor error in my (admittedly epic ) post would not dissuade other posters' from taking the rest of my message to heart.

I know that you agreed with part of what I wrote and was directing the second sentence to the board at large, in particular those posters who are obviously taking a dismissive and very sarcastic stance of their own by assigning appellations like "trade muppet" to those who are willing to discuss, and indeed are in favor of, many potential alternatives.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Huh? I apologized and expressed a genuine sentiment that the one minor error in my (admittedly epic ) post would not dissuade other posters' from taking the rest of my post to heart.

I know that you agreed with part of my post and was directing the second sentence to the board at large, in particular those posters who are obviously taking a dismissive and very sarcastic stance of their own by assigning appellations like "trade muppet" to those who are willing to discuss, and indeed are in favor of, many potential alternatives.

Fair enough. It isn't always easy to determine someones demeanor from text. I won't speak for every one else but for myself I am not calling those who are willing to discuss alternatives "trade muppets" or "trade mongers". At the end of the day, thinking outside the box is needed to cut through the fog sometimes. Some people take it to extremes is all I am saying.

Trading Brassard and playing a rookie who has yet to shown competence at the NHL level as our #2C while we are 2nd in our division and 4th in our conference would be a good example of that. There is no semblance of realism in this scenario.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

"I don't care what you think."

"Why didn't you respond to my post?!!!"

.....

Guess you missed the point of my post. If you are going to quote me please don't selectively quote me.

You know I meant that the discussion could've been settled last night if that poster took the time to respond.

Btw.....I meant to tell you the other day. That's a pretty good blog you have. I bookmarked it......

 

[Crease]

The team is settling in as the second best team in their conference. I wonder if that's going to affect Sather's decision to trade Callahan/Girardi, or at least the type of return he'd want back.

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

The team is settling in as the second best team in their conference. I wonder if that's going to affect Sather's decision to trade Callahan/Girardi, or at least the type of return he'd want back.

i doubt it, and it shouldnt. this should be a business decision.. trade them if they cant get them signed. no matter how good the team is doing at the time. their is no way they should risk of losing them for nothing.

 

[Ex Officer Friendly]

Btw.....I meant to tell you the other day. That's a pretty good blog you have. I bookmarked it......

That's a first haha

 

[iamitter]

i doubt it, and it shouldnt. this should be a business decision.. trade them if they cant get them signed. no matter how good the team is doing at the time. their is no way they should risk of losing them for nothing.

I think he means that maybe our asking return would be different. Like we'd want someone who can contribute now as opposed to maybe the highest ceiling player.

 

[Gardner McKay]

The team is settling in as the second best team in their conference. I wonder if that's going to affect Sather's decision to trade Callahan/Girardi, or at least the type of return he wants back.

I think it definitely raises the bar a bit.

 

[Thirty One]

Guess you missed the point of my post. If you are going to quote me please don't selectively quote me.

Meh, I don't think the spirit of your post was compromised by my quoting only the first two paragraphs.

You know I meant that the discussion could've been settled last night if that poster took the time to respond.

Possibly. Did you see the size of that post, though? On my ideal Saturday night, I wouldn't have the time to respond to a post like that.

Btw.....I meant to tell you the other day. That's a pretty good blog you have. I bookmarked it......

Thanks!

 

[Thirty One]

The team is settling in as the second best team in their conference. I wonder if that's going to affect Sather's decision to trade Callahan/Girardi, or at least the type of return he'd want back.

Division?

I don't think he would trade Callahan without getting an NHL winger back anyways. I agree it probably takes Girardi off the table.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Fair enough. It isn't always easy to determine someones demeanor from text. I won't speak for every one else but for myself I am not calling those who are willing to discuss alternatives "trade muppets" or "trade mongers". At the end of the day, thinking outside the box is needed to cut through the fog sometimes. Some people take it to extremes is all I am saying.

Trading Brassard and playing a rookie who has yet to shown competence at the NHL level as our #2C while we are 2nd in our division and 4th in our conference would be a good example of that. There is no semblance of realism in this scenario.

Gotcha. (By the way, in consideration of your earlier comment about lumping everyone in together, I went back and edited my original post from only to primarily. )

As to your specific point, personally, I'm in favor of re-signing Brassard, because I like him as a complementary piece, he provides stability and structure while you look for other potential 1C candidates to slot above him and don't see a move that would send him out that would make a difference.

However, playing devil's advocate, if there was an offer on the table that allowed you to get a legitimate 1C or an offensive PMD prospect, I would be willing to endure the step back of trading him and playing say Miller in his place next year. I don't see the move and there's nothing rumored, so I haven't discussed it, but - just for example and to illustrate the point, NOT because I think it's a realistic possibility - if you could move him at the draft for the pick to take a Bennett or a Reinhart, I'd do it.

 

[Beacon]

An ideal situation is you have guys in the pipeline ready to step in so when guys like Callahan and Girardi are nearing their prime payday dates you move them along for players/prospects/picks who one day will be the replacements for the replacements. Rinse and repeat. For instance, if McIlrath were breaking down the door then moving Girardi would be much easier. Same with Kristo, Fast or Duclair, for Callahan.

We have that with Callahan right now. Jesper Fast looks to be NHL ready. He has all the necessary skills now. Sure, he started the season slowly when he was in the NHL, but he's a standout in the AHL as he's getting progressively better week by week. Everyone watching Hartford regularly agrees that he's NHL ready. On the off chance he fails, we also have Danny Kristo. Kristo is less likely to make it than Fast, but we can be 95% certain that one of them will make it as a quality top-9 NHLer next season, and Fast is likely ready right now.

 

[bernmeister]

Oh, look, the trade Stepan brigade is back. Wonderful.

Thankfully, Sather wouldn't move Stepan unless an actual upgrade was coming back (and not a 30 year old one), and that'll never happen, so I will enjoy keeping Stepan and seeing the same people ***** and moan every game.

And notice, this is my first post this thread!

Does that mean there are others who have come to the conclusion that Stepan is not untouchable at any price,

and at a high enough price --- which we should constructively determine --- he not only can but actually should be moved?

 

[Gardner McKay]

Gotcha. (By the way, in consideration of your earlier comment about lumping everyone in together, I went back and edited my original post from only to primarily. )

As to your specific point, personally, I'm in favor of re-signing Brassard, because I like him as a complementary piece, he provides stability and structure while you look for other potential 1C candidates to slot above him and don't see a move that would send him out that would make a difference.

However, playing devil's advocate, if there was an offer on the table that allowed you to get a legitimate 1C or an offensive PMD prospect, I would be willing to endure the step back of trading him and playing say Miller in his place next year. I don't see the move and there's nothing rumored, so I haven't discussed it, but - just for example and to illustrate the point, NOT because I think it's a realistic possibility - if you could move him at the draft for the pick to take a Bennett or a Reinhart, I'd do it.

Yes. Without a doubt. I don't disagree with this either. Gambling on Brassard by trading him for one of the top 3 players in the draft is something you do all day of the week and twice on Sunday. The only issue is I don't see how we can get a pick like that without adding a substantial +++ to Brassard.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

You completely missed the point I was trying to make. No, I don't actually think that. And I wouldn't even sign Callahan if he took a "discount" ($6M per) anyway.

This is just straight up ridiculous. Callahan owes us? Right, because WE (you and I) drafted Callahan as an overager. It was our (yours and mine) patience that enabled him to blossom here. Your sense of entitlement is off the charts.

I'm not saying that we should give Callahan what he wants. I don't think that would be a wise decision. But it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that he owes us and should take a discount, or to assassinate his character because he is unwilling to do so. Some of you just seem to have this incessant need to assign blame in any situation that doesn't go according to plan. There's no need for blame here. Cally is doing what he feels, and his agent feels, is in his best interest. The Rangers are doing the same.

Put your emotion aside and look at it rationally. I've enjoyed watching Cally play during his time here and I'm proud to say that he is a Ranger. If that is going to end in a few weeks, I will be sad, but I will understand it, because first and foremost, the NHL is a business.

 

[Beacon]

Agreed. Zucc has sold me, but stocking up on pint-sized players is a recipe for disaster.

Fast is ready IMO. McIlrath is not - I think Allen would get the call up over him. That's part of what makes it easier to trade Cally than Girardi (but both may need to go - Cally in almost any circumstance, Girardi if you can't reach a reasonable deal).

Completely agreed.

 

[bernmeister]

SOS doesnt need any "grounds" to make such claims. There is evidence every day with the outrageous trade proposals we see on here that blow up the roster. Or how every other day people need boyle traded when he fits such a great role on this team just because he is a UFA. These fans need to constantly recoup assets. You dont manage an organization like that. SOS is right...there are fans here that treat these players like stocks, with the want to sell these "stocks" at its highest value. That was the big complaint after the DZ trade "oh but we couldve got more had we traded him earlier"...hindsight is 20/20...there are no experts here otherwise theyd be working for NHL teams...no one couldve predicted DZs struggles this year...especially how much he progressed defensively last year while staal was out. And i still think Klein is turning into a great return for him.

Again some fans are like this, not all.

Respectfully disagree.
Over the long term, ideally you get enough quality assets through successful drafts, and by winning most of the deals you make. But esp. having the horses because you acquire useful assets.

What you note above is nice in abstract, but in reality, it is a competitive game vs. other teams. If they have (more of) the horses and you don't, your only way to shorten the gap and catch up or even go ahead, is to trade number of useful assets for larger number useful assets with = or > potential. It is a crap shoot, always is to some extent, but percentages suggest a guy like Duncan Siemens, for example, is a good bet.

Enough good bets, you end up ahead.
Stand pat, you lose, cause you are not good enough to win, or likely good enough to likely get best value picks in draft to advance on your own.

 

[bernmeister]

I don't think he was accusing me personally, although he has lumped me in there previously. I just feel the need to point of how ridiculous the claim is even if he wasn't. As much as I think some posters here get excitement and enjoyment from the aspect of making moves, I don't think anyone (maybe bernmeister) really just wants to see people traded for no reason. It's merely a differing perception about players and their value to the team.

I disagree with some posters about their desire to trade players (like Stepan, or Boyle) but I certainly do not think it is without reason, good or bad.

Just to be clear, I have maintained there are no sacred cows, and anyone is theoretically tradeable, and obviously our foundations (McD, Kreider) would require crazy amount of return to justify moving their upside.

Everybody else is in 3 basic groups:
1. will move for an upgrade OR enough profit without direct upgrade to be worth a deal.
2. ok for lateral deal, hoping for equal value at min., for a guy who is a more complementary fit.
3. Ok to take less than full value; worst case: just wanna get rid of. Deadwood.

I have maintained Stepan in #1, even more so with risky short term but long term solid replacements.

I am not pushing him out the door.
But for the right return, yeah, buh-bye

I'm just more activist in posture than w/a lot of guys who largely believe in the same or similar thing, as I would rather grab the bull by the horns than let the bull dictate terms to us.

 

[Beacon]

An ideal situation is you have guys in the pipeline ready to step in

One more thing about that: this doesn't just happen by accident. If you don't want the team to have to sink to the bottom of the standings for several years to run up the high draft picks, you must plan very early. The only way to prevent a full-on rebuild is to be in a constantly partial rebuild mode. When the team is already out of the playoffs with few blue chippers in the farm, don't expect one top-5 pick to fix anything.

The strategy here could be to 1) trade Callahan for prospects; 2) sign the 28-year-old Stastny (while dumping the 34 year old Brad) and then trade Brassard for prospects; 3) promote AHL linemates Fast and Miller, and maybe Lindberg.

Kreider - Stastny - Nash
Hagelin - Stepan - MZA
Pouliot - Miller - Fast
Carcillo - Lindberg - Dorsett
Moore, Asham

McD - Girardi
Staal - Stralman
Moore - Klein

Lundqvist
Talbot

Total Payroll: ~$67 or about $4 less than the cap.


And importantly, Brassard and Callahan would bring a ton of youth back who would be ready when it's time to make a decision on Hagelin, Zuccarello, Kreider, Staal, etc.

 

[shoves]

with Colin Fraser on waivers, how would you guys feel if Rangers claimed him?? has 2 stanley cups and knows what it takes to win.. not much skill but good gritty player that can be used in the playoffs... is an agitator

Ill take all the toughness we can get. Claim him!!

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

Ill take all the toughness we can get. Claim him!!

according to the Kings fans, he has cleared.. well he has 2 Cups.. Richards and Carcillo 1 each..

 

[Gardner McKay]

One more thing about that: this doesn't just happen by accident. If you don't want the team to have to sink to the bottom of the standings for several years to run up the high draft picks, you must plan very early. The only way to prevent a full-on rebuild is to be in a constantly partial rebuild mode. When the team is already out of the playoffs with few blue chippers in the farm, don't expect one top-5 pick to fix anything.

The strategy here could be to 1) trade Callahan for prospects; 2) sign the 28-year-old Stastny (while dumping the 34 year old Brad) and then trade Brassard for prospects; 3) promote AHL linemates Fast and Miller, and maybe Lindberg.

Kreider - Stastny - Nash
Hagelin - Stepan - MZA
Pouliot - Miller - Fast
Carcillo - Lindberg - Dorsett
Moore, Asham

McD - Girardi
Staal - Stralman
Moore - Klein

Lundqvist
Talbot

Total Payroll: ~$67 or about $4 less than the cap.


And importantly, Brassard and Callahan would bring a ton of youth back who would be ready when it's time to make a decision on Hagelin, Zuccarello, Kreider, Staal, etc.

I really wouldn't be upset if they did this. You still give yourself a 1-2 punch. Maybe slot Miller in as 3C and let him grow in the bottom 6.

 

[Fitzy]

We've had one line that has been consistently good the last 2 months, I wouldn't mess with that by moving Brassard.

I still don't understand the fascination with Stastny.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

One more thing about that: this doesn't just happen by accident. If you don't want the team to have to sink to the bottom of the standings for several years to run up the high draft picks, you must plan very early. The only way to prevent a full-on rebuild is to be in a constantly partial rebuild mode. When the team is already out of the playoffs with few blue chippers in the farm, don't expect one top-5 pick to fix anything.

The strategy here could be to 1) trade Callahan for prospects; 2) sign the 28-year-old Stastny (while dumping the 34 year old Brad) and then trade Brassard for prospects; 3) promote AHL linemates Fast and Miller, and maybe Lindberg.

Kreider - Stastny - Nash
Hagelin - Stepan - MZA
Pouliot - Miller - Fast
Carcillo - Lindberg - Dorsett
Moore, Asham

McD - Girardi
Staal - Stralman
Moore - Klein

Lundqvist
Talbot

Total Payroll: ~$67 or about $4 less than the cap.


And importantly, Brassard and Callahan would bring a ton of youth back who would be ready when it's time to make a decision on Hagelin, Zuccarello, Kreider, Staal, etc.

Stastny is just an older, more accomplished Stepan. And will cost at least as much as Cally.