There's no way that the Islanders wouldn't be one of the eight teams the Sharks can't trade Boyle to. Besides, I think if Boyle gets moved, it's at the draft.
Speculation: Trade Targets (Part II)
- Thread starter Tkachuk4MVP
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There's no way that the Islanders wouldn't be one of the eight teams the Sharks can't trade Boyle to. Besides, I think if Boyle gets moved, it's at the draft.
spintheblackcircle
incoming!!!
- Mar 1, 2002
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The Sharks won't be in sell mode, not the way the last week has gone. Clowe looks like Clowe again, at least 80% of the way there.
SpaceCoastShark
Look what the cat dragged in
Yeah, I think he's about to go on one of those scoring binges that seems to happen every year
matt trick
Registered User
- Jun 12, 2007
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I would love to get Okposo, what do you estimate he would cost? Picks, prospects, a different/lower salaried top 6 forward, a center, a two-way d-man?
CREW99AW
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2002
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The Bailey-Nielsen-Okposo line is the isles best line the last few weeks and they are fighting for the 7th/8th seed. Isles are $16m below the cap floor for next season and Okposo's salary is still pretty friendly until 2014-2015($2m this season and $3m next season).
Isles stockpiling picks/prospects since the 2008 draft, are past the point of collecting as many picks/prospects as they can.
Unless Okposo is moved in package for a 1st line upgrade, I expect he'll be an Isles until the summer of 2014. Like Bailey, he's very frustrating. Especially this season. He has been slow starter every season (except 1) and should have gone to play in Europe. He could have avoided his usual slow start with the isles. Instead, the newlywed stayed home in Minn.
Get back to Snow in the summer of 2014.
Tkachuk4MVP
32 Years of Fail
At this point I don't think the success of the team is contingent upon Clowe. And while there's definitely been improvement in his game, he's not leaps and bounds better than he was at the beginning of the season IMO. The best thing about his recent play is that DW doesn't have to settle for a crappy deal, but I would still be 100% for trading him for a good return.
hockeyball
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- Nov 10, 2007
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So, just to dredge up this topic again, Burns as a forward:
What do the Sharks do now? Short term they can keep Burns at forward sure, but long term, with Boyle's time as our #1 coming to an end fairly soon and Burn's salary, the Sharks have a bit of a pickle on their hands. Here is the way i see it at the moment:
- Burns is the only d-man they have who can fill a #1 role. If he stays at forward the Sharks either need to quickly draft, trade for, or develop a #1 dman. All fairly unlikely scenarios.
- Burns may be the most ideal player to be on Thornton's wing... ever. Even more than Cheechoo. He's big (creates his own space) skates incredibly well (huge advantage over Cheechoo) and has probably the best shot on the team. He's highly accurate, gets his wrister off incredibly fast and powerful at the same time. I would actually argue Burns may have one of the best wristers in the NHL today. I could absolutely see him putting up 50 goals next season if he stays healthy. The chemistry is there.
-Burns salary makes the sharks forward group more top heavy and leaves less salary to spend on the back end to fill the hole.
I know the easy answer is "see which problem you can solve first" but it is still worth discussion. I don't see any real chance Irwin/Demers/Braun can fill that role anytime soon (or ever), Boyle has maybe a season left as a #1 still if we are lucky (and isn't traded). We have no one in the farm to fill that role and we are unlikely to draft high enough anytime soon to get a near NHL ready player to fill that role. At forward we do have Nieto and Hertl, and drafting skilled forwards is easier than defense. Do the Sharks bet that they can somehow fill that hole or do they put Burns back on D?
This was an easy decision when the Sharks were playing a system that wasn't working and had zero puck movement from the defense (aside from Boyle). Now that the Sharks have suddenly reverted to a completely different system and are encouraging the defense to move the puck (and it's working very well), i'm less sure.
What do you guys think?
What do the Sharks do now? Short term they can keep Burns at forward sure, but long term, with Boyle's time as our #1 coming to an end fairly soon and Burn's salary, the Sharks have a bit of a pickle on their hands. Here is the way i see it at the moment:
- Burns is the only d-man they have who can fill a #1 role. If he stays at forward the Sharks either need to quickly draft, trade for, or develop a #1 dman. All fairly unlikely scenarios.
- Burns may be the most ideal player to be on Thornton's wing... ever. Even more than Cheechoo. He's big (creates his own space) skates incredibly well (huge advantage over Cheechoo) and has probably the best shot on the team. He's highly accurate, gets his wrister off incredibly fast and powerful at the same time. I would actually argue Burns may have one of the best wristers in the NHL today. I could absolutely see him putting up 50 goals next season if he stays healthy. The chemistry is there.
-Burns salary makes the sharks forward group more top heavy and leaves less salary to spend on the back end to fill the hole.
I know the easy answer is "see which problem you can solve first" but it is still worth discussion. I don't see any real chance Irwin/Demers/Braun can fill that role anytime soon (or ever), Boyle has maybe a season left as a #1 still if we are lucky (and isn't traded). We have no one in the farm to fill that role and we are unlikely to draft high enough anytime soon to get a near NHL ready player to fill that role. At forward we do have Nieto and Hertl, and drafting skilled forwards is easier than defense. Do the Sharks bet that they can somehow fill that hole or do they put Burns back on D?
This was an easy decision when the Sharks were playing a system that wasn't working and had zero puck movement from the defense (aside from Boyle). Now that the Sharks have suddenly reverted to a completely different system and are encouraging the defense to move the puck (and it's working very well), i'm less sure.
What do you guys think?
I don't care what happens this season with Burns' position but he goes back to D when the season is over. They will make room in the off-season by trading any of the D they prefer to move and my hope is Boyle but I don't see anyone but Irwin being off the table.
pappaf2
Registered User
It is a conundrum, burns has been a force up front. His size and speed make make him very difficult to defend against.
I agree that it would be easier to find a top 6 winger to take his place then it will be to find another #1 dman type.
I'd be ok with the sharks packaging Clowe and Braun if it brought us back a young top 6 winger. Who has speed and at least some size.
I agree that it would be easier to find a top 6 winger to take his place then it will be to find another #1 dman type.
I'd be ok with the sharks packaging Clowe and Braun if it brought us back a young top 6 winger. Who has speed and at least some size.
hockeyball
Registered User
- Nov 10, 2007
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Keep Burns on JT line.
Resign Clowe to a 1-2 year deal at fair price
Resign Gomez to another 1 year contract.
Trade a few picks for Bowumeester and get him to resign to a multi year deal
Bouwmeester will cost more than a few picks sadly. He's an option certainly though, but I get the feeling he wouldn't even consider San Jose an an option. Honestly the options are pretty slim. Bouwmeester, maybe Yandle after the team gets sold, beyond that it's trading for prospects or drafting them ourselves. Pretty big risk, also Bouwmeester and Yandle are both big downgrades from Boyle/Burns (or having both like we do now).
Keep Burns on JT line.
Resign Clowe to a 1-2 year deal at fair price
Resign Gomez to another 1 year contract.
Trade a few picks for Bowumeester and get him to resign to a multi year deal
They can't afford that unless they trade a high salary as a cap dump.
Boy Hedican
Homer Jr, friends call me Ho-Ju
All good points. I'm down to keep Burns up there as long as we have Boyle, but what to do when/if Boyle is gone? I dunno. I think it all depends how we finish the season.
It's definitely a pickle. Burns looks soooo good up front. The ice he covers is just ridiculous. I have the feeling teams will start to learn how to shut him down, or at least try, but he possesses so many attributes that are just difficult to defend regardless of the skill. I'd love to see him against Chara and see how he fairs against someone with size and skill. But man. What a treat he's been for us this season. I'm honestly going to be pretty sad if he moves back to D. I'll probably get flamed for this, but I feel like his talents may be wasted on D. I know, I know. I get what he brings to the blue line. But I think he brings a bit more as a forward. It's not like any 6'5" dman can just jump into a forward roll and thrive. He's exceptional. There's no question he could be an elite forward. In his years here in SJ, I'm not sure I'd say he's played like an elite dman (despite playing second fiddle to Boyle - he certainly never stole the show)
OrrNumber4
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- Jul 25, 2002
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I wonder how much of the Sharks resurgance is actually due to this + Wingels, not Murray being traded and Burish/Handzus being sit.
With Wingels performing as he is, the Sharks can put a slumping forward like Clowe on the third line. With Burns on the top line, another top-6 forward can sit on the the third line. That just gives the team the depth; Tmac now has at least one line that can produce well in soft minutes.
However, I'll take a 50 point, puck-moving Dman over a 70-80 point forward ANY day...
Tkachuk4MVP
32 Years of Fail
Good point. More specifically, it moves Pavs off that wing and back to his natural center position on a line with weaker matchups (something many of us had been clamoring for all year). He's playing his best hockey of the season right now, and Galiardi and Clowe are looking great on his wings as well. We went from having horrible forward depth to a third line of Gali-Pavs-Clowe overnight, that's pretty crazy.
A lot of hyperbole in the thread WRT Boyle. IMO, he has been one of the top 3 offensive dmen in the league for a long time. He is not a true #1 by the strict definition because his defense is not at that level (a big reason for limited Norris consideration). He is a #1 by the middle and looser definitions. However, this year his production has dropped. He is on pace for 40pts over an 82 game season. That is a big drop from the mid-50s. And there are a lot of righty dmen who can achieve 40 pts given Boyle's minutes. The first unit PP is in a tailspin still and that is in large part because of Boyle. If the issue is an undisclosed injury, I don't have a problem. I do have a problem if it is age catching up. Right now it is entirely possible that Demers could produce equally to Boyle's current numbers given the same minutes. Boyle has not had a history of mentoring up and coming dmen, others have. I would like to see a well considered refutation of these points before I see any more paeans to Boyle.
On Burns, he is not the assist machine that Boyle has been historically, but when he was playing defense last year he was driving possession in right direction by a good margin.
On Burns, he is not the assist machine that Boyle has been historically, but when he was playing defense last year he was driving possession in right direction by a good margin.
hockeyball
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He's looked just as good as ever, I would chalk up the reduced point totals primarily to a terrible system we played for much of the year that was completely stifling to offensive production.
For this season? Most of us have been clamoring for pavs on the 3rd line for the past 2 or 3 seasons. But nobody wanted to hurt pavs feelings by making him less important to the team lol
He is losing his PP assists. The PP is not that different. And, the PP is the responsibility of TM, JT and Boyle. By eyeball, Boyle's entries have been pathetic (bad choices and bad location of dumps) and he really isn't getting his shot off from the line or from pinches like he was in previous years. He is also losing 5on5 assists where it is possible that you have the explanation, also possible that he is part of the problem for delaying the puck getting up the ice. I don't remember him holding as much in seasons past as he has this year, but I am not certain there.
On Boyle, I'm in between you and Easy. On the PP, I don't think Boyle's as effective as he was in years past. I don't attribute that entirely to the system. By eyeball on the PP, he's been noticeably slower to react and pass / shoot. He's not as nimble at the point as he used to be. I chalk that up to age, injury, etc.
I would be fine if Boyle got dealt now or during the offseason so we get something for him. The worst would be he walks away after 2014.
Dicdonya
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- Jul 21, 2011
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He does seem to be slowing down some but it's not as sharp a decline as one might expect. He's been battling like crazy in a physical way lately which is good. Also he does have an infectious work ethic and attitude. Maybe he doesn't specifically mentor people but he certainly leads by example.
Would you keep him if he took like 4mil on his next contract? Or just try to trade him or let him go if we can't find a buyer by the end of his contract?
That's the dilemma with aging vets. We assume he'd take that much of a discount in his next deal.
I'm of the mindset that this team as currently constituted won't ever win the Cup so why bother keeping all of them until their contracts expire. That'd be terrible asset management. I'd rather start the "reset/refresh" process sooner before it's too late.
Of the core, get what you can for Clowe, Boyle, Jumbo and even Marleau while they have value.
Tkachuk4MVP
32 Years of Fail
hockeyball
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Any top-6 player is going to make a great 3rd liner, obviously.
If you were Pavelski, would you be happy being relegated to the 3rd line forever? Probably not.
If it is injury, I would still consider trade but wouldn't be adamant as he is that good when healthy. If it is age, I would demand trade. The staff won't play youngsters if the vet is in the way. We saw it with C. White, we've seen it with Zeus, etc. This is outright dumb if the youngster is currently playing better than the vet. I use a two level thing for mentoring and Boyle doesn't score on either level. It is extremely retrospective, but Boyle has enough years that it is applicable. Does a youngster dramatically improve when partnered with said player? Does a youngster go on to play better when that partner is no longer around? Lidstrom, Blake, Timonen and Markov all score on the mentoring scale in a big way. Scoring on the mentoring scale would have changed my tune on Boyle.
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