Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic]

[bicboi64]

Good off-ice habits and nutrition are important, and you see that beer gut Brady was rocking this season lol? Karlsson was one of the most physically fit and pound-for-pound strongest Senators we've ever had. You think he did that by sitting on his ass and not working out.

How does one even measure that, this isn't MMA? I love EK, but he was never as swole as Greening.

 

[Golden_Jet]

This is absolutely false.

There were times when the team as a whole didn't practice as much as other teams, but that was due to fatigue & injuries. If you have an issue with lack of practice, blame Boucher. Even when injured, EK was still at practice observing and involved.

Senators skipping out on practice to save energy

DALLAS — Allen Iverson would have loved playing for the Ottawa Senators.

ottawasun.com

There's been times the Sens delayed practice, but that was so EK could attend. And not because he was a diva, but because he was getting back to North America from the Worlds with Sweden.

Senators hold off practice so captain Erik Karlsson can attend

As the Senators skated onto the ice Wednesday night at the Canadian Tire Centre, they were joined by a familiar face wearing a wide smile.

ottawacitizen.com

Its possible to say you're a fan of one or the other with denigrating the other. You're literally acting the way you the poster you're responding to.

I guess Meth and Ryan were lying then, my bad.

 

[bert]

Karlsson definitely had selfish plays, but they came when the stakes were at their lowest and the team was playing for nothing. The higher the stakes, the better he played, and the better the team played. This is not something you can say about Brady and this team. They play best when the pressure is off. So, what is better leadership?

I'm not blaming Brady for the team, but I'm blaming Brady for his part as captain. If the captain is playing only one way, how can you have accountability over anyone else? And that's exactly what's happening here. There is little accountability on the team. They all just do whatever they want, and it starts with Brady doing whatever he wants.

Leadership off the ice is nice, but come on, doing charity events isn't what wins cups. And how was Karlsson not active in the community?

Good off-ice habits and nutrition are important, and you see that beer gut Brady was rocking this season lol? Karlsson was one of the most physically fit and pound-for-pound strongest Senators we've ever had. You think he did that by sitting on his ass and not working out.

And you aren't there spotting Karlsson or Brady when they are working out, so how would you know who is working harder?

Your bias is crazy, painting Brady as the greatest leader, but Karlsson as the worst despite on-ice performance and results clearly showing the opposite.

Brady doesnt only play one way though... He is one of the hardest players in the league. Only two players in the league had 70 + points and 100 + Pims. He is a league leader in hits. You talk about bias but then you dont even acknowledge this....

You seem to be confusing a really talented player playing to the best of their abilities with leadership.

Karlsson doesnt really train in the summer, he doesnt really need to but to suggest he is some off ice dynamo is not true.. Brady has some of the best off ice habits in the league. Again you are confusing natural talent with work ethic. They arent the same thing.

I know who works out because I have connections to the organization and I have friends who are very close to Karlsson. He simply doesnt need to.

I never said Karlsson was a bad leader but he isnt the type of guy who goes out of his way in how he treats the trainers and staff. He doesnt go out of his way to support in the community. He has his own separate circle of friends he doesnt hang out with many of his teammates away from the rink.

You dont have to believe me I dont really care. But this is how it is whether you want to believe it or not. There is a way different vibe with this group, before you go on and on about how much success the Karlsson group had they were all in their primes. This team isnt remotely close to peaking. To think the standard you want is that team which is not remotely close to one of the most successful in franchise history tells me you havent been following the team for very long.

This group is building to be a perennial contender like the team from 1997 to 2008. Not the flash in the pan team Karlsson was on. I get it you didnt see how it was built but it looked alot like this one. Way tighter group that was built better top to bottom with real elite depth and a sense of pride and purpose to wear the jersey. A team that played for one another hung out with one another volunteered in the community. People need some patience.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

How does one even measure that, this isn't MMA? I love EK, but he was never as swole as Greening.

Mark Scheifile whose source is the Senators players.

The 5 Toughest Players I’ve Ever Faced | By Mark Scheifele

This is my attempt at taking you a little deeper inside the game that I love. Honestly, I probably could have made this 20 players long — but here are the five

www.theplayerstribune.com

"He’s almost like this urban legend. Like the NHL version of Bill Murray. But I’ve talked to a few of the guys in Ottawa, and I’ve just asked them straight up, like, “I don’t understand. He makes it look so easy. What’s the deal?” And they all say that he’s pound-for-pound one of the strongest guys in the league."

I choose to believe him especially since watching him on the ice and he is clearly incredibly strong and fit.

But yea can't really measure.

 

[bicboi64]

I guess Meth and Ryan were lying then, my bad.

I have yet to come across any interview/podcast where Meth, Ryan or any other player says that Erik Karlsson didn't feel like practicing. You're just mispresenting what they've said. Every time anyone has mentioned Karlsson and not practicing, it had to do with injury and are we literally going to think EK, or any other NHL professional is skipping on practice to get more rest?

Ffs, EK has been documented literally coming to practice when he was injured just to observe.

Its perfectly valid to say "I prefer Brady's leadership over EK, suits my preference", but the disingenuous arguments are thrown around don't make any sense.

 

[Senator Stanley]

Lebruns latest

-Dorion views a 2024 1st as just as valuable as a 2023 1st. So he doesn't feel like the draft next week is a hard deadline.

-Still thinks Dorion would like to get it done by the draft.

-Lots of teams calling, that weren't necessarily on Debrincat's list, which is giving his camp lots to think about.

-Definitely more than 5 teams on the list

Here's the quote. I wouldn't read this to mean that DeBrincat's camp has necessarily expanded its list, even if Dorion is talking to a longer list of teams.

One interesting development: Some teams that weren’t on the player’s original preferred destination list have called to get in on the action, and it’s given DeBrincat’s camp some things to think about. The bottom line here is that I believe Dorion is working with a list that has more than five teams on it.

LeBrun rumblings: What's next for Milan Lucic? Plus the latest on O'Reilly, Hellebuyck, DeBrincat, Dubois, more

Could a Bruins-Lucic reunion be in play? The rugged winger tells The Athletic: "Obviously it's a special place for me."

theathletic.com

 

[Golden_Jet]

I have yet to come across any interview/podcast where Meth, Ryan or any other player says that Erik Karlsson didn't feel like practicing. You're just mispresenting what they've said. Every time anyone has mentioned Karlsson and not practicing, it had to do with injury and are we literally going to think EK, or any other NHL professional is skipping on practice to get more rest?

Ffs, EK has been documented literally coming to practice when he was injured just to observe.

Its perfectly valid to say "I prefer Brady's leadership over EK, suits my preference", but the disingenuous arguments are thrown around don't make any sense.

Wrong

 

[Senscore]

So DeBrincat may be open to signing long term in even more places that aren't Ottawa?


Ok then.

 

[Golden_Jet]

So DeBrincat may be open to signing long term in even more places that aren't Ottawa?


Ok then.

Won’t he need time to get to know his teammates and fit, or was that only for Ottawa.

 

[Senscore]

Won’t he need time to get to know his teammates and fit, or was that only for Ottawa.

Is playing in Ottawa for the Sens really that bad? I mean what the f*** Alex?

 

[BondraTime]

Is playing in Ottawa for the Sens really that bad? I mean what the f*** Alex?

It’s not. But for a vast, vast majority of guys in DBC’s position, the grass is usually greener for them in a place of their choosing.

Also think that’s just a complete throwaway line. Other teams are seeing if he’d sign. He has to think about things. News at 11

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Here's the quote. I wouldn't read this to mean that DeBrincat's camp has necessarily expanded its list, even if Dorion is talking to a longer list of teams.

LeBrun rumblings: What's next for Milan Lucic? Plus the latest on O'Reilly, Hellebuyck, DeBrincat, Dubois, more

Could a Bruins-Lucic reunion be in play? The rugged winger tells The Athletic: "Obviously it's a special place for me."

theathletic.com

The extension at 8.5+ AAV is going to be the tough part and most of the teams on the list probably don't need or have room to add that player.
That list has to expand to any interested teams. Yzerman will low ball and string Dorion along as long as he can. If teams are calling they may meet or come close to Yzerman's offer with no extension. Dorion could tell Yzerman to find his goal scorer elsewhere

 

[bert]

Mark Scheifile whose source is the Senators players.

The 5 Toughest Players I’ve Ever Faced | By Mark Scheifele

This is my attempt at taking you a little deeper inside the game that I love. Honestly, I probably could have made this 20 players long — but here are the five

www.theplayerstribune.com

"He’s almost like this urban legend. Like the NHL version of Bill Murray. But I’ve talked to a few of the guys in Ottawa, and I’ve just asked them straight up, like, “I don’t understand. He makes it look so easy. What’s the deal?” And they all say that he’s pound-for-pound one of the strongest guys in the league."

I choose to believe him especially since watching him on the ice and he is clearly incredibly strong and fit.

But yea can't really measure.

You really cant separate natural talent from anything else eh.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Brady doesnt only play one way though... He is one of the hardest players in the league. Only two players in the league had 70 + points and 100 + Pims. He is a league leader in hits. You talk about bias but then you dont even acknowledge this....

You seem to be confusing a really talented player playing to the best of their abilities with leadership.

Karlsson doesnt really train in the summer, he doesnt really need to but to suggest he is some off ice dynamo is not true.. Brady has some of the best off ice habits in the league. Again you are confusing natural talent with work ethic. They arent the same thing.

I know who works out because I have connections to the organization and I have friends who are very close to Karlsson. He simply doesnt need to.

I never said Karlsson was a bad leader but he isnt the type of guy who goes out of his way in how he treats the trainers and staff. He doesnt go out of his way to support in the community. He has his own separate circle of friends he doesnt hang out with many of his teammates away from the rink.

You dont have to believe me I dont really care. But this is how it is whether you want to believe it or not.

If you separate hockey into two things, offensive and defensive, Brady clearly only plays one way. The team as a whole is like that too, almost like they follow his lead because he is the most extreme example, as captain no less. I like the hitting, but it doesn't excuse the lack of defensive play. We are losing games because of the lack of defensive play, no matter how much this team scores or hits.

Brady likes playing offense and hitting, so he does those things. He does not like playing defense, so he does not do it. Do you think that's setting a good example for leadership when that is the very thing that is keeping this uber-talented team from becoming a serious team?

I'm not basing it on just their natural ability. I'm basing it on their poise, their personal ability to raise their games in rough spots and have that translate to the team elevating their game, and on-ice accountability for how their team is playing. These are things that lead to winning results.

But incredible ability is actually a leadership trait as well. No one followed Caesar or Alexander because they were chumps; they had incredible ability that made their soldiers believe they could do anything since their leader could do anything. Awe is powerful inspiration. Karlsson's teams definitely had more of a winning edge and mentality than Brady's teams, despite Brady's teams being much more talented. You seem to put leadership in a small, tidy box when it is many things.

As for working out, I have not seen a single Brady season where he looked visibly in better shape than EK. And yes, EK probably has a natural advantage, but the idea that he must not go hard in the gym at all is unrealistic. It's like the person who aces the test and says they didn't study. It's BS.

"I never said Karlsson was a bad leader, but he isn't the type of guy who goes out of his way in how he treats the trainers and staff. He doesn't go out of his way to support in the community. He has his own separate circle of friends and doesn't hang out with many of his teammates away from the rink."

Jordan didn't do that either, and he is arguably the greatest, most winning leader in sports history. Maybe leadership is more than the small little box you see it as?

 

[bert]

If you separate hockey into two things, offensive and defensive, Brady clearly only plays one way. The team as a whole is like that too, almost like they follow his lead because he is the most extreme example, as captain no less. I like the hitting, but it doesn't excuse the lack of defensive play. We are losing games because of the lack of defensive play, no matter how much this team scores or hits.

Brady likes playing offense and hitting, so he does those things. He does not like playing defense, so he does not do it. Do you think that's setting a good example for leadership when that is the very thing that is keeping this uber-talented team from becoming a serious team?

I'm not basing it on just their natural ability. I'm basing it on their poise, their personal ability to raise their games in rough spots and have that translate to the team elevating their game, and on-ice accountability for how their team is playing. These are things that lead to winning results.

But incredible ability is actually a leadership trait as well. No one followed Caesar or Alexander because they were chumps; they had incredible ability that made their soldiers believe they could do anything since their leader could do anything. Awe is powerful inspiration. Karlsson's teams definitely had more of a winning edge and mentality than Brady's teams, despite Brady's teams being much more talented. You seem to put leadership in a small, tidy box when it is many things.

As for working out, I have not seen a single Brady season where he looked visibly in better shape than EK. And yes, EK probably has a natural advantage, but the idea that he must not go hard in the gym at all is unrealistic. It's like the person who aces the test and says they didn't study. It's BS.

"I never said Karlsson was a bad leader, but he isn't the type of guy who goes out of his way in how he treats the trainers and staff. He doesn't go out of his way to support in the community. He has his own separate circle of friends and doesn't hang out with many of his teammates away from the rink."

Jordan didn't do that either, and he is arguably the greatest, most winning leader in sports history. Maybe leadership is more than the small little box you see it as?

Leading the entire NHL in hits is setting a great example. You have a bias here not me.

Incredible ability is not a leadership trait on any level.

You're in denial about the rest.

Basketball is nothing like hockey its an individual based sport.

You are the one who views leadership as a small little box. Its obvious you have never played competitve sports if you think ability is leadership.

 

[Relapsing]

I get the convenience and the comfort but after tearing my miniscus a couple of years ago I switched from easy slip on sloppy shoes to Skechers Arch fit .. I have a pair for indoors and out doors. I They really stabilize my feet and help the knee joints which can be painful. Also really good for the arches in preventing or healing fasciitis. I am really happy I made the switch. This was recommended by my doctor when I wore an old sloppy fit pair of runners in and complained about my knee pain.

I'm gonna have to look at those. I had a bucket handle tear of my miniscus plate at 13, and it still bugs me every now and again over 20 years later

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Leading the entire NHL in hits is setting a great example. You have a bias here not me.

Incredible ability is not a leadership trait on any level.

You're in denial about the rest.

Basketball is nothing like hockey its an individual based sport.

You are the one who views leadership as a small little box. Its obvious you have never played competitve sports if you think ability is leadership.

oh yea that's why we see the captaincy go to the worst but hardest working players on the clubs instead of the best hard working players.

Ability plays a huge role leadership, in history, in sports, in business. No one wants to follow someone incompetent, but someone incredible or great? You think that if Musk or Jobs had only average ability people would see them as the same level of leaders? follow them as eagerly? Or Gretzky and Orr?

crazy you're so dismissive and arrogant when you get this very basic thing wrong about human nature.

 

[NyQuil]

oh yea that's why we see the captaincy go to the worst but hardest working players on the clubs instead of the best hard working players.

Ability plays a huge role leadership, in history, in sports, in business. No one wants to follow someone incompetent, but someone incredible or great? You think that if Musk or Jobs had only average ability people would see them as the same level of leaders? follow them as eagerly? Or Gretzky and Orr?

crazy you're so dismissive and arrogant when you get this very basic thing wrong about human nature.

Tkachuk is the worst but hardest working player on the club?

He's incompetent?

Funny to throw around words like dismissive.

You really are like Don Quixote. Just admit you want Brady to fail because you'd rather be right than admit that he's a good player.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Tkachuk is the worst but hardest working player on the club?

He's incompetent?

Funny to throw around words like dismissive.

You really are like Don Quixote. Just admit you want Brady to fail because you'd rather be right than admit that he's a good player.

It was an abstract example illustrating that ability does in fact matter when talking about leadership.

and jeez man im frustrated with brady because he is a very good player with incredible tools but the way he plays in his defensive effort hurts his line and the team.

I want Brady to be better, I want Brady to WIN! Not to fail, wtf. Tired of this team failing.

 

[NyQuil]

and jeez man im frustrated with brady because he is a very good player with incredible tools but the way he plays in his defensive effort hurts his line and the team.

I want Brady to be better, I want Brady to WIN! Not to fail, wtf. Tired of this team failing.

Every line on this team is not particularly good defensively.

In fact, the 2nd line (which does not have Brady Tkachuk on it) may well have been the worst defensive line in the entire league.

I'll wager they certainly had the worst plus/minus (a combined -87 for Pinto, DeBrincat and Batherson).

At some point you have to ask if it's Brady's influence across the entire team or maybe someone like the coach being out of his depth.

 

[aragorn]

For example; Hamonic could be the best leader on the team with the most leadership qualities, however he won't ever be named captain because he doesn't have the high profile the media & fans want. They want the guy who scores most of the goals & is somewhat flamboyant in front of the camera, not the glue guy who the players like & go to when they need help. Hockey like everything else in our society is all about the 2 min clip & one liner that makes for a good headline & click bait.

But as a player who would you follow into the playoffs where it's going to be hard hitting & very tough going? Most I think would follow the guy who stands up for his teammates & isn't afraid of the fight rather than the guy who needs to be defended & can't or won't stand up for himself. Tkachuk is a combination of very good skilled player & a very tough, hard hitting guy who stands up for his teammates who they will follow & clearly the camera, the fans, his teammates & the media love him. He checks all the boxes IMO. Jamie Benn is similar in that he is a high skilled player who is also very tough & defends his teammates. Shea Webber was like that, Doan, Iginla, Chara & Pronger were all like that too.

 

[NyQuil]

Personally I think the Captain has to be a guy that can win the game by himself when called upon on occasion.

I do think Brady Tkachuk can be that guy. He's not the most skilled guy on the team but his broad skill-set is sufficient to make enough of a difference to win the game.

Whether it's scoring the game winning goal (which he has more of than any other Senator in his time here, 8 more than the Senator in 2nd place), or simply raising the physical compete level, I think he leads on the ice.

We've seen with the Leafs what happens when you have a Captain or a leadership group that is highly skilled but isn't prepared to sacrifice the body when it counts.

I don't know about the off-ice stuff, but he seems popular and friendly enough and appears to be on good terms with his teammates.

One example of a Captain I think that doesn't fit that mould is Jason Smith. Jason Smith was a solid player, a hard worker and a physical presence, but when the game is on the line, what is he going to do?

Go out and chip the puck out of his zone?

It's the same reason why I didn't want Chris Phillips to be the Captain.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Every line on this team is not particularly good defensively.

In fact, the 2nd line (which does not have Brady Tkachuk on it) may well have been the worst defensive line in the entire league.

I'll wager they certainly had the worst plus/minus (a combined -87 for Pinto, DeBrincat and Batherson).

At some point you have to ask if it's Brady's influence across the entire team or maybe someone like the coach being out of his depth.

You can thank Batherson for that and did you guys see how hard I was on Batherson? Everyone was. But when anyone is hard like that on Brady suddenly it's sacrilege. And this is despite Batherson not being a captain and making 8 million. So Brady actually has a much bigger obligation to give an effort defensively for the good and success of the team.

And yea this team in general has a miasma of not wanting to do what is necessary to win. Yet people are lauding how close the boys are, how great the leadership is, and how much fun they have as they lose. Meanwhile Karlsson teams despite less talent would be much more visibly frustrated when they were losing, but that's bad team dynamics and leadership.

But which team actually did more winning?

There is no accountability on this club. It's on Dorion, it's on DJ, and despite popular belief it's actually on the players as well for not having more pride about winning.

 

[aragorn]

It's interesting that no one is talking about Chabot being the captain any more, so now it's a player from another team. As far as I know you can only pick players from your own team to be captain, I think that's still the case.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

I get the feeling that Detroit will end up with Koneckny instead. Seems more like a Yzerman player with a lower cap hit and already signed compared to Debrincat. Also brings more of an element that they lost with Bertuzzi.