Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic]

[Big Muddy]

Totally, it was a short term focused move and that's why I respect it. This team needed something, ANYTHING and the fanbase was done waiting. So PD made a move to sell hope with the upside of it being a catalyst for accelerating our path. How can we fault him for that?

We all need to rewind to how desperate this team was to send the right signals post EM. That's what ADC was, he was one part swing for the fences, one part symbolic gesture to the fanbase.

It cost us a 7th, which of course, very predictably people are clamouring about right now (before we know his fate I might add..) and that to me is really narrow sighted. Had he done nothing you can bet fans would have been crucifying him for the opposite. "We were a second liner away from being a playoff team..."

People are so quick to analyze things in a vacuum. We can all agree that this team desperately needed a pick me up last year. ADC was that. Had we made the playoffs, which we should have barring goaltending and a Norris injury, I don't think we would be having this conversation. We would be optimistic about a run next year with ADC resigned at his QO (which ironically is a worse situation.)

Instead, the plan didn't quite work out and predictably the revisionists among us who always seem to have the right answer are out in droves.

I'll take the GM that makes the odd gutsy move to improve the team and if it backfires I'm not going to hold him to the coals.

The pick me up was Giroux. So, there wasn't going to be a "do nothing" scenario. Giroux didn't cost any assets, and was better. And, I didn't think it was the right move at that time, so there is no "revisionist history". The core was very young, and still is. It wasn't a situation where a move like this was absolutely necessary. Cleverness is good, but patience is better.

 

[SpezDispenser]

yea i get it, ottawa has the best players. that's why they were never in a playoff spot all season...

thinking batherson, norris and giroux are better than bratt is pure homerism.

he is on the same level as Brady and Stu but a better all around player right now.

You said he'd be our second best forward and I disagree. No way he's better than Tkachuk or Stutzle in my eyes.

I'd love to see what Norris could achieve in a healthy season with good wingers. Or a healthy batherson who is a very good player imo.

 

[bert]

yea i get it, ottawa has the best players. that's why they were never in a playoff spot all season...

thinking batherson, norris and giroux are better than bratt is pure homerism.

he is on the same level as Brady and Stu but a better all around player right now.

If Bratt was on our team and Norris, Batherson, Giroux on NJ I bet you'd be saying Bratt is better and the other inferior.

Bratt has one empty net goal in 11 playoff games. Him being on the same level as Tkachuk and Stutzle is a terrible take even for you.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Why would they trade him at his all time lowest value? Atleast you asked but I get why people would be all over you it's a bad idea.


He wasn't a free agent until this offseason...

That's exactly the point. If he did express his desire to leave then trading him made sense.

Perhaps the time of the trade and the return can be questioned but Dorion shouldn't bear the blame FOR trading him.

This is all under the assumption that he himself said he won't be back

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Bratt has one empty net goal in 11 playoff games. Him being on the same level as Tkachuk and Stutzle is a terrible take even for you.

cmon, how many playoff goals do Stutzle and Tkachuk have?

what happened when they could have secured a playoff spot and proceeded to choke to powerhouses like CBJ, Vancouver and Chicago in the span of a week?

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

You said he'd be our second best forward and I disagree. No way he's better than Tkachuk or Stutzle in my eyes.

I'd love to see what Norris could achieve in a healthy season with good wingers. Or a healthy batherson who is a very good player imo.

stutzle is better than bratt, when brady starts actually playing defense he should be better. but right now cmon. one player hurts the team on that front while the other is a positive, and they both produce the same...

Bratt is clearly better than DBC, Norris, Giroux, Batherson.

thinking he would be our 5th-6th best forward is pure hubris while the same roster spent one week in playoff contention.

 

[SpezDispenser]

stutzle is better than bratt, when brady starts actually playing defense he should be better. but right now cmon. one player hurts the team on that front while the other is a positive, and they both produce the same...

Bratt is clearly better than DBC, Norris, Giroux, Batherson.

thinking he would be our 5th-6th best forward is pure hubris while the same roster spent one week in playoff contention.

Agree to disagree that he'd be our 2nd best forward.

 

[Samsquanch]

Agree to disagree that he'd be our 2nd best forward.

The disrespect for Brady gets drawn from a bottomless well of derpy opinions.

It scares me how clueless some of our fans are when you consider that a PPG version of Brady STILL didn't open up their eyes to what we have in him.

And you know exactly how loud and insufferable they would be about his contract if he wasn't already destroying their wildest predictions for his production.

The expectations for him to already be a perfect player already while simultaneously ignoring the things he does that can't be taught, is baffling to me.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

The disrespect for Brady gets drawn from a bottomless well of derpy opinions.

It scares me how clueless some of our fans are when you consider that a PPG version of Brady STILL didn't open up their eyes to what we have in him.

And you know exactly how loud and insufferable they would be about his contract if he wasn't already destroying their wildest predictions for his production.

The expectations for him to already be a perfect player already while simultaneously ignoring the things he does that can't be taught, is baffling to me.

who ignores the things he does? at what he is good at he is a unicorn that arguably no other player is like, everyone sees that.

but why does that excuse his non-existent defensive play? not just the quality but more damning is the lack of effort. wtf happened to our standards? if Karlsson, Stone, Alfredsson played like that they would be ripped to shreds, and right fully so. it's not okay as it would cost our playoff chances, and they would know that too.

Spezza got grilled for much less egregious defensive play. why does Brady get a free pass? he has never been a positive player in his career and a huge part of that his is own doing.

no on is asking him to be perfect its impossible, but you should feel entitled to more than the bare minimum in defensive effort by the captain.

I realize my posts about Brady will never be popular, but honestly this place overrates brady a lil, we just had people talking about how Brady is better than 109 point Matt Tkachuk... while brady sits at home watching his brother in the playoffs... tell me how that makes sense.

like there is a reason we aren't in the playoff despite having so much talent... our players don't like playing defense. if you cared about this team winning you would care about that, but apparently you're just a bad fan for caring about that. makes no sense.

 

[bert]

That's exactly the point. If he did express his desire to leave then trading him made sense.

Perhaps the time of the trade and the return can be questioned but Dorion shouldn't bear the blame FOR trading him.

This is all under the assumption that he himself said he won't be back

They traded him at his lowest possible value in the offseason when no one has cap space. It made the opposite of making sense. He was a ufa regardless and they needed him. What's the difference if he said that he won't be back or not? He would have had way more trade value later and they needed him.

cmon, how many playoff goals do Stutzle and Tkachuk have?

what happened when they could have secured a playoff spot and proceeded to choke to powerhouses like CBJ, Vancouver and Chicago in the span of a week?

Come on watch a game he's been terrible. You clearly haven't been. Bratt is no where close to the same level. He's been a disgrace these playoffs. Their most disappointing player. A 35 year old Pat Kane completely embarrassed him in the first round. Stealing a puck and outskating him and out working him to score. Stutzle had 90 points.... The best D + 3 other than McDavid since 2008. Tkachuk battles every night and sticks up for his teammates was one of only 2 players in the league with 75 + Points and 100+ pims. 'How many playoff goals do Stutzle and Tkachuk' have is your rebuttal. Are you kidding me? Bahahaha I guarantee you they'd have more than 0 on a goalie in 11 games. Bratt is soft just like all the fancy players you're an 'expert' about. I love that you posted this tbh. Just exposes you even more.

Turn on a t.v watch what it actually takes to win right now from a compete stand point. It's gonna help if you have an open mind.

 

[Sens in Process]

The disrespect for Brady gets drawn from a bottomless well of derpy opinions.

It scares me how clueless some of our fans are when you consider that a PPG version of Brady STILL didn't open up their eyes to what we have in him.

And you know exactly how loud and insufferable they would be about his contract if he wasn't already destroying their wildest predictions for his production.

The expectations for him to already be a perfect player already while simultaneously ignoring the things he does that can't be taught, is baffling to me.

Not to mention, Brady was so raw when drafted. He is just filling into that huge frame. He is going to get bigger and stronger. Brady at 24/25 will be terrifying.

There are these baked in assumptions that his production has tapped out, but Brady will get into the 90 point plus territory next year. He just improves so much from year to year. This year was his shot, and puck control along the wall. Can't wait for next year!

 

[PlayersLtd]

The pick me up was Giroux. So, there wasn't going to be a "do nothing" scenario. Giroux didn't cost any assets, and was better. And, I didn't think it was the right move at that time, so there is no "revisionist history". The core was very young, and still is. It wasn't a situation where a move like this was absolutely necessary. Cleverness is good, but patience is better.

Except we traded for ADC before we knew we had Giroux. At a certain point you need to instil a winning culture. I'm all about patience but I saw the ADC move as a building block for learning how to win in the lead up to our best window of contention. WIth a core that is all just about the same age we are in some ways on borrowed time and ADC represented an attempt to get into the playoffs and begin that learning curve one year ahead of time.

We'll see what ultimately transpires with him. If the delta between what we paid and what we get is not that much than there really isn't any fodder for criticism.

 

[Big Muddy]

Except we traded for ADC before we knew we had Giroux. At a certain point you need to instil a winning culture. I'm all about patience but I saw the ADC move as a building block for learning how to win in the lead up to our best window of contention. WIth a core that is all just about the same age we are in some ways on borrowed time and ADC represented an attempt to get into the playoffs and begin that learning curve one year ahead of time.

We'll see what ultimately transpires with him. If the delta between what we paid and what we get is not that much than there really isn't any fodder for criticism.

LOL. Do you think the Giroux trade was negotiated the day it was officially announced? I find it hard to believe that you actually believe that.

I get the idea of supporting the players and letting them know that management is behind them.

I just believe that patience is a key virtue in success. Knowing when to do things is really important and vital. If you'e ever read about the strategy in war, the smart generals only go into battle when they know they have the superior and overwhelming advantage. They wait until they do.

Given the age of our core, imho it was too early to start moving high 1st round picks. Snatch them up when the opportunity avails itself. So, this is the obvious "fodder" for criticism even if some don't want to acknowledge it.

Assuming that Debrincat won't sign here, it will be important If teams can approach Debrincat's camp to work out a new contract. Otherwise, I don't think the return will be that great (or equal to what we gave up) for a one-year, $9 m rental.

Time will tell and we hope for the best obviously.

 

[Qward]

It has to be a sign and trade to wherever he goes. Doesnt make sense otherwise.

 

[Big Muddy]

The disrespect for Brady gets drawn from a bottomless well of derpy opinions.

It scares me how clueless some of our fans are when you consider that a PPG version of Brady STILL didn't open up their eyes to what we have in him.

And you know exactly how loud and insufferable they would be about his contract if he wasn't already destroying their wildest predictions for his production.

The expectations for him to already be a perfect player already while simultaneously ignoring the things he does that can't be taught, is baffling to me.

Hmmm. I see very few people in here that disrespect or don't highly value Brady. I'm thinking you must be talking about a very small number of people i.e., a handful or less.

Best to ignore the tiny fringe minority with weird opinions.

 

[BankStreetParade]

LOL. Do you think the Giroux trade was negotiated the day it was officially announced? I find it hard to believe that you actually believe that.

I get the idea of supporting the players and letting them know that management is behind them.

I just believe that patience is a key virtue in success. Knowing when to do things is really important and vital. Given the age of our core, imho it was too early to start moving high 1st round picks. Snatch them up when the opportunity avails itself. So, this is the obvious "fodder" for criticism even if some don't want to acknowledge it.

Assuming that Debrincat won't sign here, it will be important If teams can approach Debrincat's camp to work out a new contract. Otherwise, I don't think the return will be that great (or equal to what we gave up) for a one-year, $9 m rental. Time will tell and we hope for the best obviously.

If your organizational philosophy precludes you from trading a 7OA pick in a Covid-affected draft for a young guy with multiple 40G+ seasons on his resume, then I don't know why you're pretending to be in the business of winning.

This is an example of separating intention from result. The idea that anyone can have an issue with intention, regarding the ADB trade, is beyond explanation. Being upset with the result? Totally fair. Even if there are extenuating circumstances like a 35% drop in S% from the previous season, playing with a rookie centre most of the year, playing with a linemate recovering from a notoriously challenging injury like a high ankle sprain, new team and system adjustment, etc.

Despite that, he still had some career highs this year and putting him on Stutzle's wing next year will almost certainly guarantee career highs in goals, assists and points.

Hmmm. I see very few people in here that disrespect or don't highly value Brady. I'm thinking you must be talking about a very small number of people i.e., a handful or less.

These imaginary ghosts and battles are kind of fascinating though.

I haven't seen anyone disparage Brady lately, except with regard to his defensive play, which is inarguably well below average.

 

[Big Muddy]

If your organizational philosophy precludes you from trading a 7OA pick in a Covid-affected draft for a young guy with multiple 40G+ seasons on his resume, then I don't know why you're pretending to be in the business of winning.

This is an example of separating intention from result. The idea that anyone can have an issue with intention, regarding the ADB trade, is beyond explanation. Being upset with the result? Totally fair. Even if there are extenuating circumstances like a 35% drop in S% from the previous season, playing with a rookie centre most of the year, playing with a linemate recovering from a notoriously challenging injury like a high ankle sprain, new team and system adjustment, etc.

Despite that, he still had some career highs this year and putting him on Stutzle's wing next year will almost certainly guarantee career highs in goals, assists and points.


I haven't seen anyone disparage Brady lately, except with regard to his defensive play, which is inarguably well below average.

What I find interesting is that a lot of people say they didn't expect to make the playoffs, and yet the goal of the Debrincat trade was to push us over the top and into the playoffs. You can't have it both ways because one way or another, a player with one year of term remaining and with another potential expensive $9 m QO year can easily result in having the player for just one year = short term move & objective.

Intent is nice. What's that cliche -> The road to hell is paved with good intentions. But GMs need to have a good strategy and results. The rest of what you said is just noise or a deflection from this point.

 

[BankStreetParade]

What I find interesting is that a lot of people say they didn't expect to make the playoffs, and yet the goal of the Debrincat trade was to push us over the top and into the playoffs. You can't have it both ways because one way or another, a player with one year of term remaining and with another potential expensive $9 m QO year can easily result in having the player for just one year = short term move & objective.

Intent is nice. What's that cliche -> The road to hell is paved with good intentions. But GMs need to have a good strategy and results. The rest of what you said is just noise or a deflection from this point.

Yes, the intention was to make the playoffs. That's not questionable. The result is a totally separate thing. Losing your 1C a week into the season? Having 7 starting goalies in 1 season? Half a season lost by your #1 RD? Many man games lost to injury? Having a rookie play 2C all year? Not having an unsigned RFA who gave you 18G last year and was invaluable to your bottom 6 in your lineup? A sexual assault investigation involving 2 of your players? Those are related to the results, not intention. You don't intend to start the season with critical injuries across the roster, do you? You don't intend to have a historic number of starting goaltenders play for you, do you? Those are the results that happen to you, as opposed to the results you intended to achieve.

I'd say, with nearly 100% confidence, that a season with a healthy Norris, Formenton in the lineup and a healthy starting goalie tandem, and we would have made the playoffs. The addition of Chychrun takes it over the top. If you'd like to disagree with the makeup of the roster and whether they would have made it, is a discussion I'd gladly have. Confusing intention with the results is not.

 

[BondraTime]

If your organizational philosophy precludes you from trading a 7OA pick in a Covid-affected draft for a young guy with multiple 40G+ seasons on his resume, then I don't know why you're pretending to be in the business of winning.

This is an example of separating intention from result. The idea that anyone can have an issue with intention, regarding the ADB trade, is beyond explanation. Being upset with the result? Totally fair. Even if there are extenuating circumstances like a 35% drop in S% from the previous season, playing with a rookie centre most of the year, playing with a linemate recovering from a notoriously challenging injury like a high ankle sprain, new team and system adjustment, etc.

Despite that, he still had some career highs this year and putting him on Stutzle's wing next year will almost certainly guarantee career highs in goals, assists and points.


I haven't seen anyone disparage Brady lately, except with regard to his defensive play, which is inarguably well below average.

2022 wasn't a Covid effected draft, point remaining

 

[Big Muddy]

Yes, the intention was to make the playoffs. That's not questionable. The result is a totally separate thing. Losing your 1C a week into the season? Having 7 starting goalies in 1 season? Half a season lost by your #1 RD? Many man games lost to injury? Having a rookie play 2C all year? Not having an unsigned RFA who gave you 18G last year and was invaluable to your bottom 6 in your lineup? A sexual assault investigation involving 2 of your players? Those are related to the results, not intention. You don't intend to start the season with critical injuries across the roster, do you? You don't intend to have a historic number of starting goaltenders play for you, do you? Those are the results that happen to you, as opposed to the results you intended to achieve.

I'd say, with nearly 100% confidence, that a season with a healthy Norris, Formenton in the lineup and a healthy starting goalie tandem, and we would have made the playoffs. The addition of Chychrun takes it over the top. If you'd like to disagree with the makeup of the roster and whether they would have made it, is a discussion I'd gladly have. Confusing intention with the results is not.

So, the Debrincat acquisition was a gamble then. Ostensibly that's the conclusion. It didn't work out. Injuries happen. Several teams were using their back-up (3rd & 4th string) goalies. That's all part of the NHL experience. It's always a dichotomy or the battle between risk & reward. Like I said, the smart generals go into battle when they have the overwhelming odds in their favour.

No point in further discussion. This is becoming repetitive.

 

[Loach]

Hmmm. I see very few people in here that disrespect or don't highly value Brady. I'm thinking you must be talking about a very small number of people i.e., a handful or less.

Best to ignore the tiny fringe minority with weird opinions.

This is a weird opinion.

 

[Big Muddy]

This is a weird opinion.

Yep. Good idea to ignore those that frequently have weird opinions.

 

[BankStreetParade]

So, the Debrincat acquisition was a gamble then. Ostensibly that's the conclusion. It didn't work out. Injuries happen. Several teams were using their back-up (3rd & 4th string) goalies. That's all part of the NHL experience. It's always the battle between risk & reward. Like I said, the smart generals go into battle when they have the overwhelming odds in their favour.

No point in further discussion. This is becoming repetitive.

No.

And it's repetitive because you still don't understand the difference between intention and result.

Also, equivocating playing a #3G with playing #7 is a microcosm of how you "argue" your point. That's not "part of the NHL experience". Actually, 7 starting goalies in 1 year is a vanishingly rare occurrence in the NHL.

 

[Samsquanch]

Hmmm. I see very few people in here that disrespect or don't highly value Brady. I'm thinking you must be talking about a very small number of people i.e., a handful or less.

Best to ignore the tiny fringe minority with weird opinions.

Saying that a soft player (Bratt) who was drafted 2 years before Brady and scored 10 less points than Brady - is a better player than Brady - is in fact being disrespectful to him. And clearly they are not valuing Brady properly.

 

[Big Muddy]

No.

And it's repetitive because you still don't understand the difference between intention and result.

Also, equivocating playing a #3G with playing #7 is a microcosm of how you "argue" your point. That's not "part of the NHL experience". Actually, 7 starting goalies in 1 year is a vanishingly rare occurrence in the NHL.

LOL. There's no lack of understanding when it comes to a simple concept (intent versus result). GMs get paid to weigh the risks and make the correct decisions and pick the best options or alternatives. I can make a post and point without denigrating the other poster I'm having a discussion with.

This is just going in circles now & further discussion is pointless. Cheers.

Saying that a soft player (Bratt) who was drafted 2 years before Brady and scored 10 less points than Brady - is a better player than Brady - is in fact disrespectful. And clearly they are not valuing Brady properly.

I agree. It's a weird, minority opinion. Oh well.