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I'm with RB on Zucc.
It's the pro sports adage, across the board: usually, the good big man beats the good little man.
An exception would be Marty St. Louis, but that guy is UNBELIEVABLY freakishly strong.
I don't see Zuc turning into MSL.
Ergo, he's a good guy and all that but a better asset if we trade him into pick or prospect. Buy low, develop potential in his case.
It's the pro sports adage, across the board: usually, the good big man beats the good little man.
An exception would be Marty St. Louis, but that guy is UNBELIEVABLY freakishly strong.
I don't see Zuc turning into MSL.
Ergo, he's a good guy and all that but a better asset if we trade him into pick or prospect. Buy low, develop potential in his case.
Wouldn't it make sense to figure out who you keep and who you don't and who is going to give you maximum value if traded.
RFAs
Brassard
Zucc
Kreider
MDZ
Falk
J Moore
UFAs
Cally
Boyle
Pyatt
Pouliot
D Moore
Girardi
Stralman
Max Value
Kreider
Cally
Girardi
Stralman
Girardi plainly doesn't fit the system. No one regresses like this outside of injuries. In another system more defensive minded the guy would be crazy good again top pairing. He is worth a 1st round pick or a top 6 forward at worst.
Kreider is a no touch IMO.
Cally is the perfect conundrum. He is the captain and when playing the seemingly heart and soul of the team. Is his style going to be that of Chris Drury going forward? Who knows but you can't think he will take less money to be here. He is another worth a 1st round pick. You put him in a package with Girardi and you might get one of EDM's Big 4.
MDZ and Pyatt you pretty much have no leverage on but if add in Brassard you can pull something decent for the bottom 6 or a 4-6 Dman and a pick take it and run.
If Girardi was traded it opens a spot to pay Stralman a little more like in the $2.5-2.7 range over 4 years. To me that is reasonable when you have Connor Allen and McIlrath in the system.
Take some of that money saved trading Girardi and use it for Zucc. Another $2.5 over 4 years.
Amnesty Richards and you have a bunch of room to do some good things and still use your youth.
RFAs
Brassard
Zucc
Kreider
MDZ
Falk
J Moore
UFAs
Cally
Boyle
Pyatt
Pouliot
D Moore
Girardi
Stralman
Max Value
Kreider
Cally
Girardi
Stralman
Girardi plainly doesn't fit the system. No one regresses like this outside of injuries. In another system more defensive minded the guy would be crazy good again top pairing. He is worth a 1st round pick or a top 6 forward at worst.
Kreider is a no touch IMO.
Cally is the perfect conundrum. He is the captain and when playing the seemingly heart and soul of the team. Is his style going to be that of Chris Drury going forward? Who knows but you can't think he will take less money to be here. He is another worth a 1st round pick. You put him in a package with Girardi and you might get one of EDM's Big 4.
MDZ and Pyatt you pretty much have no leverage on but if add in Brassard you can pull something decent for the bottom 6 or a 4-6 Dman and a pick take it and run.
If Girardi was traded it opens a spot to pay Stralman a little more like in the $2.5-2.7 range over 4 years. To me that is reasonable when you have Connor Allen and McIlrath in the system.
Take some of that money saved trading Girardi and use it for Zucc. Another $2.5 over 4 years.
Amnesty Richards and you have a bunch of room to do some good things and still use your youth.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
- 28,981
- 24,357
You also think it was a mistake to qualify him?
Zuccarello doesn't need to me St. Louis to be effective. What if he, you know, keeps doing what he's doing?
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
- 13,694
- 1,493
MDZ QO: 2,805,000/yr
Brass QO: 3,502,000/yr
Are either of those players worth that? I'm inclined to say no... Trade them?
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
- 13,694
- 1,493
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
- 28,981
- 24,357
It's $3.7 million for Brassard and $2.9 million for Del Zotto. And no, I wouldn't hesitate to pay either.
pld459666
Registered User
I've said it time and again, no one is untouchable. NO ONE
That said, I find NO LOGIC in trading Zuccs for a pick unless the pick was a sure fire top15 in the 2014 draft. And we know that that is not going to happen.
He's getting more acclimated to the NA game after yo-yo'ing between the SEL, NHL, AHL, KHL and now back to the NHL.
He's on pace for 55 points in 81 games and as the season has progressed, he's gotten better and better.
What you want from a mid to late 1st round pick is to HOPE that player developes into a 55 point producing player 3-4 years after the draft.
What logic is there in trading a player that is producing today what you HOPE to get from a player you are drafting 6 months from now?
And no, there is no one in the system that can come in and do what Zuccs is doing now.
There is no logic to trading Zuccs for a pick or a prospect at the moment.
That said, I find NO LOGIC in trading Zuccs for a pick unless the pick was a sure fire top15 in the 2014 draft. And we know that that is not going to happen.
He's getting more acclimated to the NA game after yo-yo'ing between the SEL, NHL, AHL, KHL and now back to the NHL.
He's on pace for 55 points in 81 games and as the season has progressed, he's gotten better and better.
What you want from a mid to late 1st round pick is to HOPE that player developes into a 55 point producing player 3-4 years after the draft.
What logic is there in trading a player that is producing today what you HOPE to get from a player you are drafting 6 months from now?
And no, there is no one in the system that can come in and do what Zuccs is doing now.
There is no logic to trading Zuccs for a pick or a prospect at the moment.
Shadowtron
Registered User
- Sep 17, 2007
- 24,926
- 22,848
Who is this "good big man" who is ready to step in and replace him? How much is that player going to cost in terms of cap dollars or assets to acquire?
pld459666
Registered User
exactly.
a player that is 6ft and 200lbs putting up 50+ point pace will cost 5+ million EASILY
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
- 13,694
- 1,493
isn't it 10% more than they make?
ALso, why are people even question Zucc's capabilities?
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
- 28,981
- 24,357
10% more for players making under 600,000 I believe. For players over $1 million, it's just 100%, but it's calculated on that season's salary, not the cap hit.
- Sep 17, 2007
- 24,926
- 22,848
No. It's 10% more for under 600k. Under 1 mil but >= 600k is 5%. 1 mil or more the QO is the same as the prior year salary.
That's how it was in the last CBA. I don't remember seeing anything about it changing in the new CBA, but I could see those number going up as the minimum salary goes up. At some point, no one will be making under 600k. Regardless, at the salaries that MDZ and Brass have, their QO's will be their current salary.
So because Zucc isnt MSL, we should trade him? Our best forward and people want him traded, what a shame.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Beer League Sniper
Homeless Man's Rick Nash
Zuccarello battles harder than most of our forward roster. He also wins more board battles than most of our forward roster. He tends to get knocked off the puck more easily if he's trying to make a move on a defender, but that's about it. He's harder on the puck than Boyle, Moore, Brassard, Pouliot, Nash, and Richards. He stands up for himself and his teammates. What exactly is small about his game?
LeetchisGod
This is a bad hockey team.
If mdz is so great, why are we shopping him around the league and getting crap offers? He is 23 and the organization is already sick of him. He has been in the doghouse of two different coaches. You obviously have a different definition of success than I do. This organization has boatloads of money but they definitely don't spend enough of it on scouting. A bunch of organizations also passed on mdz after he was highly touted at the beginning of his junior career. We should have been one of them.
Raspewtin
Stay at home defenseman hater
- May 30, 2013
- 44,300
- 21,901
Obviously. If a player isn't top 10 in his position on this team he should be traded, always.
Don't you understand HFNYR logic?
Obviously. If a player isn't top 10 in his position on this team he should be traded, always.
Don't you understand HFNYR logic?
Its just sick imo. Zucc has been our best forward and he takes **** from nobody. But yeah, trade him.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
- 28,981
- 24,357
If a player's not top 10 in his position there's always a goon or a prospect that's not ready waiting to take his spot.Obviously. If a player isn't top 10 in his position on this team he should be traded, always.
Don't you understand HFNYR logic?
Raspewtin
Stay at home defenseman hater
- May 30, 2013
- 44,300
- 21,901
You totally redirected the discussion. You called Del Zotto a wasted pick, which he isn't.
I agree he's having a tough time now, even though he's looked better of late. He can use a change of scenery.
Raspewtin
Stay at home defenseman hater
- May 30, 2013
- 44,300
- 21,901
Again. Who would you have taken past DZ? Eberle and Carlson are obvious choices, but again if they were such sure things why didn't the other 22 teams pick them? You all act as if DZ was this obvious pick to avoid, with multiple future stars ahead of him.
Scouting isn't as simple as some people think it is.
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