Speculation: Trade Rumors/Speculation Part IX: Dubinsky, Rozsival and a 2nd

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Because he's had one third of a season of high end offensive production. Until now, he's basically been a .5 PPG player who really didn't bring much to the table other than the points, and great ability in the shootout. If he continues this level of play through the end of the year, we're looking at a 60 point player who can kill penalties, and has some sand paper in his game. This one season will drastically alter his value and will thus drive up the money on a new deal.

Committing to a player after 3/4's of a good season is a very tricky proposition. Especially one who is a group II and will be eligible to be a UFA at the end of next season. It's easy for you as a fan to say "He's not going to regress" but much harder for a NHL team to make that assumption with millions of dollars at stake and a salary cap to worry about.

I'm not saying we should trade him. I want to keep him. However, I'm not naive enough to think that you can just keep him at any cost to the team. It's a risk no matter how you want to spin it.

I'm not saying he won't regress. Typically, a player that doesn't rely on speed and isn't physical enough to induce wear and tear on his body will not regress as fast as someone who needs either/both characteristics to be successful. Zucc's success is derived on vision on the ice and the precision of his passes. This is how he was playing in the Olympics 4 years ago.

The potential is there and he's shown the ability to pay dividends for this club when given the chance. Since November he's scored something like 7 goals and had like 15-16 assists. He had a slow start, but so did everyone on our team. Since then, he's been the most consistent forward we have, along with Kreider.

You look for consistency. Clearly a risk with giving ANY player a big contract is that they won't perform. It was a risk with McD. It'll be a risk with Staal next year, and with Girardi this year, and thus forth. But given Zucc's track record, I don't think that he's the player that will regress after the contract (from our list of players that are eligible for new contracts). He's never really been given a chance to succeed. Torts system was offensive creativity averse... Zucc's success as a player is based on creativity. Is it a wonder he's playing up to Olympic standards now that AV is the coach?

3 year deal at 3/3.25 per? Desharnais as the comparable he had 4/14 or an AAV of 3.5 a year. That's not crippling to any team.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

David Desharnais. Look at his numbers in the career. Had that big year. 60 points. Got four years and $14M. That guy is a good comparable to Zuccarello. Montreal would give him away for free if they could because of that contract. Zuccarello is on pace to have a very good year and Newport will want what the guy in MTL got.

Zucc is not getting a 4yrs/$14M contract. He'll get $2.5M-$3M AAV for 3 or 4 years if management decides to give him term. Which is fine for what he brings to the table. Feel free to bump this thread when he signs, because I really don't think I'm going to be wrong on this one. Just because MTL handed out a dumb contract does not mean we are obligated to. When faced with the prospect of either taking another 1 year deal in arbitration for possibly more money, or taking on years at a mild discount, I think Zucc will take the term deal.

 

[Trxjw]

I'm not saying he won't regress. Typically, a player that doesn't rely on speed and isn't physical enough to induce wear and tear on his body will not regress as fast as someone who needs either/both characteristics to be successful. Zucc's success is derived on vision on the ice and the precision of his passes. This is how he was playing in the Olympics 4 years ago.

I'm not worried about him physically. I'm worried about this hot streak he's on being the exception to the rule.

The potential is there and he's shown the ability to pay dividends for this club when given the chance. Since November he's scored something like 7 goals and had like 15-16 assists. He had a slow start, but so did everyone on our team. Since then, he's been the most consistent forward we have, along with Kreider.

You look for consistency. Clearly a risk with giving ANY player a big contract is that they won't perform. It was a risk with McD. It'll be a risk with Staal next year, and with Girardi this year, and thus forth. But given Zucc's track record, I don't think that he's the player that will regress after the contract (from our list of players that are eligible for new contracts). He's never really been given a chance to succeed. Torts system was offensive creativity averse... Zucc's success as a player is based on creativity. Is it a wonder he's playing up to Olympic standards now that AV is the coach?

Yes, he's been good for 25 games. That is a very, very small sample size. McDonagh was a top-pairing defender for several seasons before he got his deal. That was a no brainer, and at the price we paid, a flat out bargain. Staal was the same when he got his contract, but will rightfully be a question mark due to injury next summer. Girardi has an established track record and his concerns aren't about production, but whether or not he'll physically break down, and whether or not we should trade him for assets who might fit into this system more effectively.

3 year deal at 3/3.25 per? Desharnais as the comparable he had 4/14 or an AAV of 3.5 a year. That's not crippling to any team.

It's not about crippling the team financially. It's about evaluating a player and determining whether or not he's worth a new contract, or if he's better off being dealt while his value may be at it's peak. The same thing the Pens did when they traded Goligoski.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

Pyatt has size. So does Poo. Nash as well.

What type of physical impact do these guys have?

One minute we need skill. The next minute, **** skill, we need size.

Zucc has won me over. But not because of his skill. He plays big. And he contributes offensively. He's not the guy you break the bank for, but then again he hasn't produced enough to warrant that type of contract.

This board is all over the place. A good player is a good player, regardless of his size, race, hairstyle, or personality. Last I checked we need good players. MZA has proven he has a role on this team.

Yea.. Let's trade him. It's all about asset management. That's the only thing that matters.

I'm not even a MZA fanboy but it's a little disturbing to read some of the comments here.

 

[Ail]

He plays big. And he contributes offensively. He's not the guy you break the bank for, but then again he hasn't produced enough to warrant that type of contract.

The fact he plays 6 inches taller than he is, is a key part of his game. I think he will be worth his next contract, and it won't be as bad as people are making it sound like it might be in this thread.

For what it is worth as well, he's on a hot streak on a team that is completely inept offensively most nights and bereft of consistent talent. I'd rather give a guy who hot streaks on a bad team a contract he earned, than a guy hot streaking on a good team a contract he may have rode coattails to.

Zucc is carrying players, not vice versa.

 

[RangerBoy]

Pyatt has size. So does Poo. Nash as well.

What type of physical impact do these guys have?

One minute we need skill. The next minute, **** skill, we need size.

Zucc has won me over. But not because of his skill. He plays big. And he contributes offensively. He's not the guy you break the bank for, but then again he hasn't produced enough to warrant that type of contract.

This board is all over the place. A good player is a good player, regardless of his size, race, hairstyle, or personality. Last I checked we need good players. MZA has proven he has a role on this team.

Yea.. Let's trade him. It's all about asset management. That's the only thing that matters.

I'm not even a MZA fanboy but it's a little disturbing to read some of the comments here.

Disturbing? Discussing the value of the player is "disturbing"? Why is he different than any other player?

 

[Ail]

Disturbing? Discussing the value of the player is "disturbing"? Why is he different than any other player?

Maybe I'm the one who doesn't understand English, but I am pretty sure he said SOME of the comments were disturbing, not the entire discussion.

 

[BBKers]

I think Zucc is a more well rounded player than DD, but this is the kind of situation you have to worry about with ANY player who has a breakout season in a contract year. Not just the small ones.

Brassard should be dealt (for a younger, bigger 3c) as I think he will not live up to his QO. I do not see him being a piece moving fwd as bringing Bang for the buck.
Zuccarello is an interesting case. People here thought he was getting paid too much at slightly above 1M or should not be resigned at all. Zuccarello has made their arguments totally ridiculous with his play so far this year but the Besserwissers still will not cave in here. Guy brings the most value on the team (other than Kreider on the ELC) and yet he should still be traded now as he has value, might cost too much in the future and might become Desharnais? Twilight zone reasoning. I mean - if we can sign him for 4 years+ at 15 M or less, pull the trigger immediately. I am sure his going rate is lower than that. If that is a bad deal or not well then every deal has a potential of turning out sour. So just go and buy a new crop of UFAs that fill the bill each year. We might then finally get the lottery pick we are desperately clamoring for. Within a decade.

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

id gladly move Girardi or Del Zotto in a deal for Yakupov

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Brassard should be dealt (for a younger, bigger 3c) as I think he will not live up to his QO. I do not see him being a piece moving fwd as bringing Bang for the buck.
Zuccarello is an interesting case. People here thought he was getting paid too much at slightly above 1M or should not be resigned at all. Zuccarello has made their arguments totally ridiculous with his play so far this year but the Besserwissers still will not cave in here. Guy brings the most value on the team (other than Kreider on the ELC) and yet he should still be traded now as he has value, might cost too much in the future and might become Desharnais? Twilight zone reasoning. I mean - if we can sign him for 4 years+ at 15 M or less, pull the trigger immediately. I am sure his going rate is lower than that. If that is a bad deal or not well then every deal has a potential of turning out sour. So just go and buy a new crop of UFAs that fill the bill each year. We might then finally get the lottery pick we are desperately clamoring for. Within a decade.

Worst case we're middle of the round. Our goaltending alone is getting us to .500.

With Cally and Staal set to come back... I can't see this team sinking to top 10 status.

 

[RangerBoy]

Zucc is not getting a 4yrs/$14M contract. He'll get $2.5M-$3M AAV for 3 or 4 years if management decides to give him term. Which is fine for what he brings to the table. Feel free to bump this thread when he signs, because I really don't think I'm going to be wrong on this one. Just because MTL handed out a dumb contract does not mean we are obligated to. When faced with the prospect of either taking another 1 year deal in arbitration for possibly more money, or taking on years at a mild discount, I think Zucc will take the term deal.

You must be one of those people who refuses to believe Clarkson won't impact Callahan or what Brown got won't impact Callahan. You miss my point. If the Rangers don't want to pay him,another team will pay him. Its a business. Even for Zuccarello. He hired Newport for a reason. They get their guys paid.

 

[Ail]

Brassard should be dealt (for a younger, bigger 3c) as I think he will not live up to his QO. I do not see him being a piece moving fwd as bringing Bang for the buck.

He should be dealt, waived, buried, banished, exiled to the land of the inconsistent enigmas who can't put together a full, well rounded game at the NHL level.

I admit my anti-Brassard bias, but for the few moments he has where he looks legit he has long stretches of not being there at all. He definitely will not be worth whatever contract he is given. He has the skill to be a very good 2c, or an elite 3c, but doesn't have the complete game to be either. I'm sick of players like this, and if they bring him back I will be bitter until he is gone.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

id gladly move Girardi or Del Zotto in a deal for Yakupov

I wish.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

He should be dealt, waived, buried, banished, exiled to the land of the inconsistent enigmas who can't put together a full, well rounded game at the NHL level.

I admit my anti-Brassard bias, but for the few moments he has where he looks legit he has long stretches of not being there at all. He definitely will not be worth whatever contract he is given. He has the skill to be a very good 2c, or an elite 3c, but doesn't have the complete game to be either. I'm sick of players like this, and if they bring him back I will be bitter until he is gone.

Package with DZ. Maximize return.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Disturbing? Discussing the value of the player is "disturbing"? Why is he different than any other player?

You weren't discussing value, you were advocating trading him because of what he theoretically might want on his next contract. All this just because of who his agent is, without taking into account past contract negotiations.

Zucc didn't have to come here. He could have made more money staying in Russia. If he gets the Desharnais contract, I'll eat my hat.

Zucc will sign a reasonable contract.

He's not getting $3.5M per.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

You weren't discussing value, you were advocating trading him because of what he theoretically might want on his next contract. All this just because of who his agent is, without taking into account past contract negotiations.

Zucc didn't have to come here. He could have made more money staying in Russia. If he gets the Desharnais contract, I'll eat my hat.

Zucc will sign a reasonable contract.

He's not getting $3.5M per.

I think 3-3.25 is reasonable. 3.5 isn't a far way off. I wouldn't be upset with 3.5.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

You must be one of those people who refuses to believe Clarkson won't impact Callahan or what Brown got won't impact Callahan. You miss my point. If the Rangers don't want to pay him,another team will pay him. Its a business. Even for Zuccarello. He hired Newport for a reason. They get their guys paid.

Brown will impact what Callahan gets. Clarkson's contract was a joke the moment it was signed, and everyone knows it. Nobody is getting paid based on Clarkson's contract. Just like Zuccarello isn't getting paid based on Desharnais' bad contract.

When was the last time the Rangers overpaid a RFA?

 

[GAGLine]

I think 3-3.25 is reasonable. 3.5 isn't a far way off. I wouldn't be upset with 3.5.

The cap will likely be at least 70 mil next year. 3.5 mil is only 5%. If Zucc is getting that kind of money, it will be for at least 4 years I think. How high will the cap be 2 or 3 years down the road?

Of course we need to weigh how much it will take to sign him and the chance that he can continue to produce at his current level. Every player needs to be evaluated every year, regardless of their contract situation. It's too early to make that evaluation on Zucc. See where he and the team are at come the trade deadline.

 

[Ail]

Brown will impact what Callahan gets. Clarkson's contract was a joke the moment it was signed, and everyone knows it. Nobody is getting paid based on Clarkson's contract. Just like Zuccarello isn't getting paid based on Desharnais' bad contract.

When was the last time the Rangers overpaid a RFA?

Derek Stepan.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

I think 3-3.25 is reasonable. 3.5 isn't a far way off. I wouldn't be upset with 3.5.

Quite honestly, neither would I, but the Rangers don't overpay RFAs based on the poor decisions of another organization.

 

[Kocur Dill]

After watching the Yak vid it seems we lack peckerheads on this team.

Too many nice guys.

Don't get me wrong you need the strong, silent types, they make great leaders who lead by example, but that is one thing Dubi brought, was the "peckerhead factor".

Who on this team gets into the head of other players?

Surely not Dorsett. He's more of a Hollweg type. Reactionary and dumb instigation penalties with nothing positive coming from it.

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

After watching the Yak vid it seems we lack peckerheads on this team.

Too many nice guys.

Don't get me wrong you need the strong, silent types, they make great leaders who lead by example, but that is one thing Dubi brought, was the "peckerhead factor".

Who on this team gets into the head of other players?

Surely not Dorsett. He's more of a Hollweg type. Reactionary and dumb instigation penalties with nothing positive coming from it.

one reason Sather messed up big time and did not try to get Steve Downie. Rangers could have offered more than Maxime Talbot.. i would have done Del Zotto and Boyle for Downie + something like McGinn... Rangers need that player that gets the other team off of their game.. look at what McIlrath did vs the Bluejackets to get the other player sent to the box.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

one reason Sather messed up big time and did not try to get Steve Downie. Rangers could have offered more than Maxime Talbot.. i would have done Del Zotto and Boyle for Downie + something like McGinn... Rangers need that player that gets the other team off of their game.. look at what McIlrath did vs the Bluejackets to get the other player sent to the box.

Very negative locker room stigma associated with Downie. Im glad we didn't get him.

 

[Kocur Dill]

I've wanted Downie since he left TB.

How we missed him twice without even a courtesy call is beyond me.

Marchand
Downie
Dubinsky

These types of skilled pests are not easy to come by.

 

[Trxjw]

Brassard should be dealt (for a younger, bigger 3c) as I think he will not live up to his QO. I do not see him being a piece moving fwd as bringing Bang for the buck.
Zuccarello is an interesting case. People here thought he was getting paid too much at slightly above 1M or should not be resigned at all. Zuccarello has made their arguments totally ridiculous with his play so far this year but the Besserwissers still will not cave in here. Guy brings the most value on the team (other than Kreider on the ELC) and yet he should still be traded now as he has value, might cost too much in the future and might become Desharnais? Twilight zone reasoning. I mean - if we can sign him for 4 years+ at 15 M or less, pull the trigger immediately. I am sure his going rate is lower than that. If that is a bad deal or not well then every deal has a potential of turning out sour. So just go and buy a new crop of UFAs that fill the bill each year. We might then finally get the lottery pick we are desperately clamoring for. Within a decade.

His play as of late has made a good case for him to be worth re-signing, but let's not forget how badly he started the season. Also, it's important to remember that he's never scored at this kind of pace before. He's playing very well, but there are way too many people jumping on the "I told you so" bandwagon. Frankly, it's way too early to draw any conclusions either way.