Proposal: Trade Rumors/Proposals Thread 2013-2014 | Part VI

[MtRundle]

Spezza's real salary next season is 4 M, but his cap hit is 7 M. That means keeping Spezza allows the Sens to spend 3 M in real money below the floor when the cap goes up to 1-2 M past the internal budget figure. He is not going anywhere for many reasons, and his internal cap friendly contract is at the top of the list.

Good point- basically he's a Melnyk wet dream. Keeps him above the cap but he doesn't have to spend money.

I have no problem keeping Spezza if we add more pieces around him. If we keep this team as status quo we're going to get more of the same results.

 

[Neiler]

And how many actual Senators games ago was that?

100 team games.

Spezza was injured for all but five games last season. What's your point?

 

[Sensinitis]

1) I don't know how many 4 point games he has left in him

2) (I didn't elaborate on this one) Even if he does put up 2-3 points on a given night, how many was he on the ice for? That is increasingly part of the problem.

 

[mcnorth]

1) I don't know how many 4 point games he has left in him

2) (I didn't elaborate on this one) Even if he does put up 2-3 points on a given night, how many was he on the ice for? That is increasingly part of the problem.

Yeah, Spezza will get his points. No one doubts that, but it's not enough. Are we successful if he gets 80 pts and we miss the play-offs? I'd wager Sezza wouldn't call that a successful season, even if some would say he had a good season and the team didn't... it just doesn't work that way. We need some hard work along the boards, need some take-aways to make up for the give-aways, or fewer give-aways, more plus than minus, need him to lead by example and in words. He needs to be better. Up and down the line-up I think these guys are better, but the best players have to be your best players is probably the most important and impactful part of that. If Condra or Phillips elevates their game, we probably still miss the play-offs, but we know Spezza and EK or Andy elevating their game to what we'e seen in the past can turn our season around immediately.

 

[HSF]

if you deal spezza i am not sure ryan will stick around to waste the prime of his career while guys like Cowen, Zibby, turris,Ceci, Lazar and all the other young guys who we need to do well and play above their current pace right now to be a contender.

 

[HSF]

Yeah, Spezza will get his points. No one doubts that, but it's not enough. Are we successful if he gets 80 pts and we miss the play-offs? I'd wager Sezza wouldn't call that a successful season, even if some would say he had a good season and the team didn't... it just doesn't work that way. We need some hard work along the boards, need some take-aways to make up for the give-aways, or fewer give-aways, more plus than minus, need him to lead by example and in words. He needs to be better. Up and down the line-up I think these guys are better, but the best players have to be your best players is probably the most important and impactful part of that. If Condra or Phillips elevates their game, we probably still miss the play-offs, but we know Spezza and EK or Andy elevating their game to what we'e seen in the past can turn our season around immediately.

if Spezza gets 80 pts and we miss the playoffs I can't blame spezza that means that other guys on the team aren't doing their job

 

[Sensinitis]

I'd rather Spezza makes the sacrifice Thornton made. I don't know if he's capable though. Physically and mentally.

 

[mcnorth]

if Spezza gets 80 pts and we miss the playoffs I can't blame spezza that means that other guys on the team aren't doing their job

Well, I see your point. But if those guys aren't on the ice when the goals against are being scored... it is kinda on Spezza. Can't just look at one side of the ledger. Credit/debit. In/out. Plus/minus.

 

[HSF]

Well, I see your point. But if those guys aren't on the ice when the goals against are being scored... it is kinda on Spezza. Can't just look at one side of the ledger. Credit/debit. In/out. Plus/minus.

If Spezza is putting up 80 pts he will probably be a plus player

or maybe i should say if Spezza was putting up 80 pts and everyone else were doing their job as they should on defense and in nets then he will certainly be a plus player.


You think if Spezza goes to St Louis he will be a minus player? lol

 

[Sensinitis]

80 points, +3. Big whoop.

 

[HSF]

80 points, +3. Big whoop.

he was a +11 (80+pts) a couple years ago on a team that wasn't that good at all


you would be naive to think he wouldnt be a +20 player on st louis where other guys play the positions they are supposed and do it well



see it is fun to make up numbers too

 

[Sensinitis]

Couple years ago. That's the whole point of all this Spezza talk. He isn't the same as a couple years ago.

I didn't see the edit, was talking about him in OTT and that team 2 years ago wasn't not "that good at all". Made the playoffs at least. Not like they were sub 10th place or something.

 

[HSF]

Couple years ago. That's the whole point of all this Spezza talk. He isn't the same as a couple years ago.

he might not be able to carry a collin greening or a butler anymore but he sure as hell can play with quality players.


Get him some legit wingers instead of having him continually having to carry scrubs on his back.


Most of his points are on the pp you know why? cause he plays with actual top 6 wingers. Is there a captain out there that plays with worse?

again put him on a team like St Louis and this guy will become as good as before

 

[Benjamin]

if you deal spezza i am not sure ryan will stick around to waste the prime of his career while guys like Cowen, Zibby, turris,Ceci, Lazar and all the other young guys who we need to do well and play above their current pace right now to be a contender.

If Ryan's only here because of Spezza, a player he never plays with, then im not sure I want Ryan. He should want to be here because he wants to be a Senator and not because he wants to be a Spezza teammate.

Is there a spezza rumour out there or just more useless talk about moving him cause fans feel like it?

No more discussing anything unless there is a 100% legit rumour!

he might not be able to carry a collin greening or a butler anymore but he sure as hell can play with quality players.
Get him some legit wingers instead of having him continually having to carry scrubs on his back.
Most of his points are on the pp you know why? cause he plays with actual top 6 wingers. Is there a captain out there that plays with worse?

Try him with MacArthur, he does nothing. Try him with Ryan, he does nothing. Try him with Zibanejad, he does nothing. Try him with Michalek, he does nothing. Try him with Conacher, he does nothing. Its the wingers fault!

If Spezza is putting up 80 pts he will probably be a plus player

or maybe i should say if Spezza was putting up 80 pts and everyone else were doing their job as they should on defense and in nets then he will certainly be a plus player.

LOL. Most of Spezza -'s are directly related to his dumb plays.

 

[Neiler]

1) I don't know how many 4 point games he has left in him

2) (I didn't elaborate on this one) Even if he does put up 2-3 points on a given night, how many was he on the ice for? That is increasingly part of the problem.

1) Statistically speaking, 6; assuming he plays to 1000 games before he's done. He's 30 years old. Doesn't seem like a stretch that he'll manage another 361 games (6 seasons @ 60GP or 5 seasons @ 72GP).

2) Unfortunately we don't have the on ice statistics from earlier in his career to be able to tell that. However, I can tell you the following regarding games he played in:

Total team games since beginning of 2002 season: 815
OTT GF per game in those games: 3.00
OTT GA per game in those games: 2.66

Games in which Spezza has played (same time frame): 639
OTT GF per game in those games: 3.04
OTT GA per game in those games: 2.73

Games in which Spezza has one or more points (same time frame): 402
OTT GF per game in those games: 3.61
OTT GA per game in those games: 2.69


Team record since beginning of 2002: 427 -290-80-18 (.524)
Team record with Spezza in the lineup: 332-229-65-13 (.520)
Team record when Spezza gets one or more pts: 247-107-44-4 (.614)

 

[StefanW]

Is there a spezza rumour out there or just more useless talk about moving him cause fans feel like it?

There is no Spezza rumor out there, so it falls in your "useless talk" category. Some fans are frustrated with the way he is playing. Other fans who put up a huge number of posts daily on this board have continued to bang the "trade Spezza" drum for ages now. Not to be taken seriously at this point.

Having said this, if we are out of a playoff spot at the trade deadline I'm sure his name will come up in real trade rumors. Considering his team cap-floor friendly deal (see my post earlier in this thread) I doubt anything will come of it, but you never know.

 

[HSF]

There is no Spezza rumor out there, so it falls in your "useless talk" category. Some fans are frustrated with the way he is playing. Other fans who put up a huge number of posts daily on this board have continued to bang the "trade Spezza" drum for ages now. Not to be taken seriously at this point.

Having said this, if we are out of a playoff spot at the trade deadline I'm sure his name will come up in real trade rumors. Considering his team cap-floor friendly deal (see my post earlier in this thread) I doubt anything will come of it, but you never know.

WHat i don't get is Spezza is one of the LEAST likely players to be traded not only is he the CAPTAIN he is our number 1 center and has a NTC.

It is pointless talking about moving him cause it isnt happening atleast not before 90% of this roster is moved.

I find it hard to believe some actually think Turris can be a number 1 center. Usually if a player hasn't shown immense potential by 24-25 he isn't going to magically turn into a top center. Turris is good but to me he is a good number 2

 

[mcnorth]

Some fans are frustrated with the way he is playing. Other fans who put up a huge number of posts daily on this board have continued to bang the "trade Spezza" drum for ages now.

Hey, some of us are snowed in and stuck here and don't have any other options. Back off, bud.

 

[StefanW]

Hey, some of us are snowed in and stuck here and don't have any other options. Back off, bud.

Hahaha! Got it and backing slowly away.

 

[Punchbowl]

1) Statistically speaking, 6; assuming he plays to 1000 games before he's done. He's 30 years old. Doesn't seem like a stretch that he'll manage another 361 games (6 seasons @ 60GP or 5 seasons @ 72GP).

2) Unfortunately we don't have the on ice statistics from earlier in his career to be able to tell that. However, I can tell you the following regarding games he played in:

Total team games since beginning of 2002 season: 815
OTT GF per game in those games: 3.00
OTT GA per game in those games: 2.66

Games in which Spezza has played (same time frame): 639
OTT GF per game in those games: 3.04
OTT GA per game in those games: 2.73

Games in which Spezza has one or more points (same time frame): 402
OTT GF per game in those games: 3.61
OTT GA per game in those games: 2.69


Team record since beginning of 2002: 427 -290-80-18 (.524)
Team record with Spezza in the lineup: 332-229-65-13 (.520)
Team record when Spezza gets one or more pts: 247-107-44-4 (.614)

Thank you for bringing cold, hard numbers into this, Moller, but there really isn't much significance to the team record when Spezza gets 1+ points.

If Spezza gets a point in a match, that means the Sens scored at least one goal that game. Looking only at games Spezza got a point in is basically spotting the Sens a +1 handicap for each of those games. Of course their point percentage is going to be higher if they have a +1 handicap. It's to be expected for any player in the league.

This is the same fallacy that leads to the whole, "We win when Phillips scores," theory. Obviously we'll have a better record when one of our players scores (especially, as in Phillips' case, if it's a lesser offensive player).


To be honest, looking at the team record with/without Spezza and drawing any kind of conclusion that Spezza is a positive, negative, or neutral influence on the team is pretty invalid as it's such a general statistic.

 

[HavlatMach9]

^ or the record when a player is in the lineup, that lineup is that player better, surprise

 

[Neiler]

Thank you for bringing cold, hard numbers into this, Moller, but there really isn't much significance to the team record when Spezza gets 1+ points.

If Spezza gets a point in a match, that means the Sens scored at least one goal that game. Looking only at games Spezza got a point in is basically spotting the Sens a +1 handicap for each of those games. Of course their point percentage is going to be higher if they have a +1 handicap. It's to be expected for any player in the league.

This is the same fallacy that leads to the whole, "We win when Phillips scores," theory. Obviously we'll have a better record when one of our players scores (especially, as in Phillips' case, if it's a lesser offensive player).


To be honest, looking at the team record with/without Spezza and drawing any kind of conclusion that Spezza is a positive, negative, or neutral influence on the team is pretty invalid as it's such a general statistic.

Fair points and ones I hadn't considered. To remove the handicap, what if we look at those same games but remove games in which the opposition did not score at least one goal? That removes 29 shutouts and 113 GF.

Games in which Spezza has one or more points and so does opposition: 373
OTT GF per game in those games: 3.59
OTT GA per game in those games: 2.90

Team record when Spezza gets one or more pts and so does opposition: 218-107-44-4 (.584)

 

[83DIZ65]

I agree the contract is brutal....truth is it will have to be brutal contract for butal contract imo, but at least Zajac doesn't have the injury problems.

Plus it's equal amounts of money going both ways, which qualifies it as realistic in my books. My proposals are usually realistic in that sense, as the Sens are a budget team.

the actual dollars being spent on spezz next year are far less.....dollar to dollar this is brutal.....playe for player a wash at best......

 

[Sensinitis]

Moller, stats aren't going to tell the story.

Especially since you're looking at past stats. The problem is this season and the ones upcoming. That's what most fans are worried about.

 

[83DIZ65]

I coulda quoted half of this thread to retort too......had to stop myself....

if you deal spezza i am not sure ryan will stick around to waste the prime of his career while guys like Cowen, Zibby, turris,Ceci, Lazar and all the other young guys who we need to do well and play above their current pace right now to be a contender.

turris is better then spezza now im sure ryan can tell....thats part of why theyre meshing so well.

if Spezza gets 80 pts and we miss the playoffs I can't blame spezza that means that other guys on the team aren't doing their job

Jeez so offensive stats are all that decides how well youve played????im sorry but all 80 of spezzas theoretical points could disapear and wed score 30 less goals and allow 50 less.....

Well, I see your point. But if those guys aren't on the ice when the goals against are being scored... it is kinda on Spezza. Can't just look at one side of the ledger. Credit/debit. In/out. Plus/minus.

^^^this but even if we did just look at that side of the ledger wed still see losing numbers..... we give up more goals then we score when hes on the ice....