Proposal: Trade Rumors/Proposals Thread 2013-2014 | Part VI

[The Fuhr*]

Chris Campoli was dealt for a 1st... He no longer plays for this organization... Out of the NHL.

If BM got it right, could have had a core 2nd pair D.

Everything BM does bad is not his fault... And everything that goes right is all him.

Rational like that leads to endless mediocrity... Miss the playoffs this year and 1 playoff round win in 7 years... See it with the fan base in attendance.

It's not just me seeing the garbage product he is icing... The fan base is beginning to wake up

 

[The Waffler]

Check the thread on the main board. They've said they would love Methot.

Was that all the LA fans or just one guy?

If you went to the main board and saw a crappy Spezza offer and told the guy who made the proposal "Yeah that's a great offer, Spezza sucks" then he went to his board and put that same offer in their trade proposal thread and told all the other posters that it was a good deal to Ottawa fans and that they hate Spezza there.

I'm not saying that's the case here...Well I might be...definitely could be.

 

[masterandy]

Actually, if we were able to spend to the cap..this team would be amazing. Attempt to bash our GM all you want, he's made the moves that put us in a position to succeed. Only issue is we have an internal budget..and we all know it only started recently with Melnyk and his problems

 

[The Fuhr*]

Actually, if we were able to spend to the cap..this team would be amazing. Attempt to bash our GM all you want, he's made the moves that put us in a position to succeed. Only issue is we have an internal budget..and we all know it only started recently with Melnyk and his problems

I watched the Sens dominate 2000-2005 spending 30+ million dollars less then big teams like NYR, Philly and the Leafs

This internal budget is a scape goat for BM... During his tenure as GM he has been allowed to spend more money then any other GM in Sens history

 

[YNWA14]

I wonder if New York would be willing to move Hagelin?

 

[Xspyrit]

You know, I wouldn't discount that at all. Ottawa is a strange city. A quiet, political town, the scourge of the rest of the country. A lot of transient workers from around Ontario and Quebec. There is a sinister undercurrent in this city. Lots of tension.

I hear about that every week from people in Montreal who know I am a Sens fan. All I can say is "love is blind".

1 playoff series win in 7 years after this season is the players fault?

This should be a team with stability and treading upwards... Defense and bottom six should no longer be an issue

Team was giving 30+ shots a game last year as well... Team was bailed out by insane goaltending

What's the point? The average shots in a NHL game is 30 to 30 (at least this year)

Last year, Sens gave up 31.3 shots per game, 2 more than the league average. They just had a more efficient system that was made to adjust to key injuries.

Boston got fortunate that Chara signed there. How many marquee UFAs are we gonna sign with an internal budget?

Sens can only sign "reclamation projects" or stars on the decline... The team has a low budget now but there's many other factors why Ottawa doesn't attract a lot of UFAs (Taxes, weather, not much recent history, small market, weak fairweather fanbase, etc)

 

[Icelevel]

Chris Campoli was dealt for a 1st... He no longer plays for this organization... Out of the NHL.

If BM got it right, could have had a core 2nd pair D.

Everything BM does bad is not his fault... And everything that goes right is all him.

Rational like that leads to endless mediocrity... Miss the playoffs this year and 1 playoff round win in 7 years... See it with the fan base in attendance.

It's not just me seeing the garbage product he is icing... The fan base is beginning to wake up

that 1st round was pretty weak though later in the round. kyle palmieri ended up going in that spot, there was also dylan olsen a couple picks later, or carter ashton.
Instead we ended up with the 2nd rounder in 2011 which could have been used to get xavier ouellet (or chris gibson or kucherov) who could end up better than all those 2009 guys, so not much difference in the pick imo. instead it was used to get puempel which i'm not sure about but we'll see.

 

[masterandy]

I watched the Sens dominate 2000-2005 spending 30+ million dollars less then big teams like NYR, Philly and the Leafs

This internal budget is a scape goat for BM... During his tenure as GM he has been allowed to spend more money then any other GM in Sens history

It also took the 90's to get those prospects to flourish. Our "good core" are still young ie: Turris, Ryan, Zibanejad, Karlsson, Lehner. These 4 guys alone are real core players for the future. I really believe that. They are that good.

We're building a solid foundation that just needs time. When these guys hit their prime, we will dominate again even with a small budget.

 

[83DIZ65]

I watched the Sens dominate 2000-2005 spending 30+ million dollars less then big teams like NYR, Philly and the Leafs

This internal budget is a scape goat for BM... During his tenure as GM he has been allowed to spend more money then any other GM in Sens history

Im starting to join this bandwagon........ the thing is though that a new gm would come in here and blow up bmurs team...........probably mean byby spezza phillips neil anderson..... theyd almost have to shuck this team to get it restarted and take it in its new direction......oddly i have no problem with that idea at all.......

 

[The Fuhr*]

What's the point? The average shots in a NHL game is 30 to 30 (at least this year)

Last year, Sens gave up 31.3 shots per game, 2 more than the league average. They just had a more efficient system that was made to adjust to key injuries.

Last year of the 7teams that gave up more shots then us 2 were above .500 (Washington, Toronto)

Same thing this year... Two teams are behind us in shots allowed (Washington and Toronto)

Ottawa has one of the worst defense the last two years... Goaltending hid it last year.

We don't have the offense like Washington or Toronto to allow as many shots as we do.

 

[83DIZ65]

It also took the 90's to get those prospects to flourish. Our "good core" are still young ie: Turris, Ryan, Zibanejad, Karlsson, Lehner. These 4 guys alone are real core players for the future. I really believe that. They are that good.

We're building a solid foundation that just needs time. When these guys hit their prime, we will dominate again even with a small budget.

two things.....karlson and ryan pretty much are what there gonna be........ and there are 5 people you just listed not 4 and id add cowen lazar and ceci to that list......and id still not be thrilled........

 

[Xspyrit]

Chris Campoli was dealt for a 1st... He no longer plays for this organization... Out of the NHL.

If BM got it right, could have had a core 2nd pair D.

Everything BM does bad is not his fault... And everything that goes right is all him.

Rational like that leads to endless mediocrity... Miss the playoffs this year and 1 playoff round win in 7 years... See it with the fan base in attendance.

It's not just me seeing the garbage product he is icing... The fan base is beginning to wake up

A core 2nd pair D with the 26th overall pick? Ok but reality says the chances of finding that with the mid 2nd round pick are about the same. However, we used that 2nd to move up in the draft (to get Puempel)

Also, how many prospects do we need? It's not like we don't have a ton of those quality prospects you get with late 1st or 2nd round picks (Puempel, Hoffman, Da Costa, Petersson, Wikstrand, Stone, Wiercioch, Pageau, Prince). At some point, you need actual players and there's a limited number of spots available on a team

It's funny when people say "He no longer plays for this organization", because he DID play 2.5 years, it counts for something as not all players are eternal.

And "out of the NHL". I saw you criticize Murray for dealing players that are out of the NHL today (or on the verge). So now you like the Corvo trade to Carolina since Corvo is back? lolz

I'm not saying BM don't have faults, I have always been criticizing his coachings hirings. This team always needed a Ken Hitchock type of coach (proven sure thing) but he always goes with unknowns. Very risky IMO

For the rest, I don't criticize much his moves because most made sense and he did well under the circumstances, the cards he was given to play with. No, if I had to criticize, he would be for things he DIDN'T do, moves that would have helped even more. But do I really need and have time to do that since there is so many that already do?

Again, 1 playoff round won and 4 playoffs appearance is a lot better than some teams that get praised a lot these days, namely Chicago, LA and St-Louis

Why would Ottawa of all places be any different that they are so special and don't have to go through the natural organization cycle of life? What do you think about that?

The product is not garbage at all. Have the Michalek trip been called yesterday and the Sens scored on the PP to win it 3-2, people would sing a very different tune today. No, the "product" is extremely inconsistent, Jekyll & Hyde style. I see the good and the bad, not only the bad like some of you. They have played great in many games, like against Detroit, Boston, St-Louis, etc. But unfortunately, they can't do it on most nights. Has to be expected for a young inexperienced team that gets average goaltending though.

You were right, SV % of last year wasn't sustainable but things would be a lot better if we didn't have the 7th worst in the NHL right now

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/stats/teamsort/NHL/T-SVPCT/regularseason

What is disappointing this season is we have no idea which team will show up and that they are playing the level of the opponent instead of imposing their own identity. This team identity might be gone with Aflie though and it will take a bit of time to rebuild a new one

 

[Tuna99]

Col: Bobby Ryan
Ott: O'Reilly, Col 1st 2014

Tor: Spezza, Gryba (Spezza has NTC)
Ott: Tor 1st 2014, Freddy Gauthier, Cody Franson

LA: Michalek
Ott: Toffolli

Calgary: Anderson
Ott: 3rd rounder

This lineup looks a lot faster

Mac - Turris - Stone
Zibby - O'Reilly - Toffoli
Gauthier - Pageau - Condra
Greening - Smith - Neil

Cowen - Karllson
Methot - Franson
Phillips - Ceci

 

[The Fuhr*]

Foligno was a late 1st and BM got Methot for him.

He's done some good things but the amount of crap he has done far outweighs the positives... Time is beginning to show that

 

[OgieO]

Chris Campoli was dealt for a 1st... He no longer plays for this organization... Out of the NHL.

If BM got it right, could have had a core 2nd pair D.

Everything BM does bad is not his fault... And everything that goes right is all him.

Rational like that leads to endless mediocrity... Miss the playoffs this year and 1 playoff round win in 7 years... See it with the fan base in attendance.

It's not just me seeing the garbage product he is icing... The fan base is beginning to wake up

Oh come on, that's a pretty ridiculous straw man you're building there. Nobody says Murray is flawless or hasn't made mistakes and nobody gives him full credit when things go right.

Last year MacLean got most of the credit, not Murray. This year there is plently of blame to go around, and pinning it on Murray is stupid.

You keep making **** up and refuting.

 

[Hossa18]

Right now the only thing I am looking at is

Alfie - gave up on the team
Ryan - puts his heart out there every night.

I see things differently and you would have to believe that Alfredsson wouldn't just quit on the team. Would you want to work for someone who doesn't value you as an employee?

I was on Senschirp last week and someone posted that the real reason that Alfredsson left was because Melnyk called Alfredsson right before free agency apparently drunk and told him that he was not worth 5.5 million and would never get that in an Ottawa uniform. Senschirp later posted that the story was in fact true but it was an email that was sent to Alfredsson and not a phone call.

What would you do?

 

[Icelevel]

I see things differently and you would have to believe that Alfredsson wouldn't just quit on the team. Would you want to work for someone who doesn't value you as an employee?

I was on Senschirp last week and someone posted that the real reason that Alfredsson left was because Melnyk called Alfredsson right before free agency apparently drunk and told him that he was not worth 5.5 million and would never get that in an Ottawa uniform. Senschirp later posted that the story was in fact true but it was an email that was sent to Alfredsson and not a phone call.

What would you do?

and who told him that? bibi?

 

[Tuna99]

Foligno was a late 1st and BM got Methot for him.

He's done some good things but the amount of crap he has done far outweighs the positives... Time is beginning to show that

Letting Alfie go will be his legacy, any boss that let's its best, most important and hardest worker leave doesn't deserve all the slamming he can get. You let your #1 employee go, the guy that leads every person in the company, through intelligence, modesty and hard work over money he deserves, not matter what you've done you cannot make up for a mistake like that.

The message with Alfie leaving and Melnyk chirping him on the way out the door sent to the Ottawa players is "You are expendable and no matter what you do for this organization, even if you help built it from nothing, you are expendable. We don't value you, we value money"

It's hard to stay motivated with that message being sent and we are seeing that now.

 

[harvey]

Foligno was a late 1st and BM got Methot for him.

He's done some good things but the amount of crap he has done far outweighs the positives... Time is beginning to show that

Well that is your opinion, and you have blasted you negativity far and wide lately. However having been a season ticket holder since day one in Ottawa I have seen where this team has been and gone. Murray has done the best over those years than any other GM we have had. But then again you are probably a Toronto fan and thus really don't watch the Sens that much other than through the eyes of the Toronto media

 

[Xspyrit]

Foligno was a late 1st and BM got Methot for him.

He's done some good things but the amount of crap he has done far outweighs the positives... Time is beginning to show that

Sorry but I don't see it

I think he has been burned most of the time by his coaching selections and the team didn't entirely play up to potential because of it but when he took over he had no goaltending (Emery was average and became worse by himself. Murray didn't have a voodoo doll on him, Gerber was Gerber and no prospects), and a very weak prospect pool. He also had a lot of declining players or on the verge of decline (Redden, Meszaros, Alfie, Schaefer, Preissing... and eventually Heatley)

he had many factors to go against him but under the circumstances he :

- built a goaltending pipeline (Anderson, Lehner, Driedger, Hogberg, Brassard, Hammond)

- built a young defense pipeline with lot of potential (Karlsson, Cowen, Ceci, Methot, Wiercioch, Wikstrand, Borowiecki, Claesson, Rutkowski, Harpur, Wideman, Sdao, Boyle)

- is building (not over since it was the last thing undertaken) a young forwards stable : Ryan, Zibanejad, Turris, Lazar, Prince, Puempel, Stone, Pageau, Conacher, Smith, Grant, Da Costa, Petersson, Hoffman, Dzingel, McCormick, Dunn, Shore, Schneider, Robinson...MacArthur? Michalek?)

Look at the age and experience of those guys... the work is far from done.

Letting Alfie go will be his legacy, any boss that let's its best, most important and hardest worker leave doesn't deserve all the slamming he can get. You let your #1 employee go, the guy that leads every person in the company, through intelligence, modesty and hard work over money he deserves, not matter what you've done you cannot make up for a mistake like that.

The message with Alfie leaving and Melnyk chirping him on the way out the door sent to the Ottawa players is "You are expendable and no matter what you do for this organization, even if you help built it from nothing, you are expendable. We don't value you, we value money"

It's hard to stay motivated with that message being sent and we are seeing that now.

Sad but true, but what power was in Murray hands? I doubt Murray didn't want Alfie back, just for the loyalty that Murray advocates, and the leadership and experience factors.

Personally, I think Alfie was a bit tired as he gets older to carry a young team and looked at his Swedish friends in Detroit and say "why not try that?". Melnyk money was also a big factor but in the end, it is Alfie decision...

 

[John Holmes*]

Well that is your opinion, and you have blasted you negativity far and wide lately. However having been a season ticket holder since day one in Ottawa I have seen where this team has been and gone. Murray has done the best over those years than any other GM we have had. But then again you are probably a Toronto fan and thus really don't watch the Sens that much other than through the eyes of the Toronto media

You can't be serious...

Our best GM was Marshall Johnston in a landslide victory.

I'd give Pierre Gauthier serious consideration for that title as well, but Johnston, in his limited time, set this franchise up for years.

Gauthier brought us from a laughing stock franchise to a legitimate contender, and he did it with half the budget that BM has ever had.

Murray is like the Pied Piper of the Ottawa fanbase. I don't know how this guy gets the unconditional love that he does get. He's accomplished nothing, anywhere he's ever been.

His best top 10 pick ever was Martin Lapointe. His draft record is actually pretty bad if you look at his entire body of work, and of course suspend the belief that every single pick he's made in Ottawa is going to make it to the NHL.

I'd rank him somewhere between John Muckler (the worst) and Randy Sexton.

He's all reputation (which makes no sense) and zero results.

 

[HSF]

Murray i think has done a lot of good since the rebuild.

Lehner, Karlsson, Turris, Ryan, Zibby, Cowen, Andy, Methot, Ceci, Lazar, Macarthur, Smith, Pageau are all the types of players you need to win.


Hated how we drafted/traded so many soft skilled players back in the day especially the russians who never came

 

[Hossa18]

and who told him that? bibi?

yup

 

[Hossa18]

Well that is your opinion, and you have blasted you negativity far and wide lately. However having been a season ticket holder since day one in Ottawa I have seen where this team has been and gone. Murray has done the best over those years than any other GM we have had. But then again you are probably a Toronto fan and thus really don't watch the Sens that much other than through the eyes of the Toronto media

nope.....he cheers for the Muckler's

 

[LuckyPierre]

I see things differently and you would have to believe that Alfredsson wouldn't just quit on the team. Would you want to work for someone who doesn't value you as an employee?

I was on Senschirp last week and someone posted that the real reason that Alfredsson left was because Melnyk called Alfredsson right before free agency apparently drunk and told him that he was not worth 5.5 million and would never get that in an Ottawa uniform. Senschirp later posted that the story was in fact true but it was an email that was sent to Alfredsson and not a phone call.

What would you do?

Link/source?