Rumor: Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread XXV: Season over. Still waiting to begin...

[StoveTopStauffer]

I agree, but because Letang is a PP specialist that isn't particularly strong defensively or very tough he wouldn't add a ton to the Oilers.

I don't think i agree, our defense was incredibly stagnant for production. In fact I recall looking at D cores of quite a few other teams and laughing because their top 2 Dmen had more points than our entire D roster. System maybe played a role but Letang would be a massive upgrade back there, undoubtedly. Maybe not cap or roster friendly, however.

 

[thadd]

OK there have been rumblings of Horcoff not getting bought out.

Does this mean we're going to suffer another year with Horcoff and possibly buy him out in the next off-season (if he's healthy) or is he going to get traded?

I honestly don't know who'd want to pick him up in a trade. I know he's making less money than his cap hit, but even for the money he's making he isn't all that attractive of a player to have around.

I'm under the impression that he's got negative value. He's a slower skater than he used to be, he's a pretty soft player and he's got no offence in him.

What could Mac-T be brewing up here? If he possibly just bluffing about not being willing to buy Horcoff out so that teams are more likely to trade for his services?

 

[Paralyzer008]

OK there have been rumblings of Horcoff not getting bought out.

Does this mean we're going to suffer another year with Horcoff and possibly buy him out in the next off-season (if he's healthy) or is he going to get traded?

I honestly don't know who'd want to pick him up in a trade. I know he's making less money than his cap hit, but even for the money he's making he isn't all that attractive of a player to have around.

I'm under the impression that he's got negative value. He's a slower skater than he used to be, he's a pretty soft player and he's got no offence in him.

What could Mac-T be brewing up here? If he possibly just bluffing about not being willing to buy Horcoff out so that teams are more likely to trade for his services?

Horcoff is still underrated, his contract has been a target for Oiler fans to pick at for the last few years but I feel this guy isn't as horrible as how we painted it. I don't think it would be suffering if he came back.

However, now that MacT has came out with trading him, I think keeping him wouldn't be that great for the dressing room and on Horcoff's spirit himself. If you were a team though, why would you tell media that you were buying out a player? Why would a team trade for him then? It makes sense to say "we aren't going to buy him out even if we don't trade him, so if you want him, trade with us."

I still think if July 3 comes around and Horcoff hasn't found a new home, MacT will buy him out. That's not public because that would hurt Horcoff's value if he had any left.

 

[thadd]

Horcoff is still underrated, his contract has been a target for Oiler fans to pick at for the last few years but I feel this guy isn't as horrible as how we painted it. I don't think it would be suffering if he came back.

However, now that MacT has came out with trading him, I think keeping him wouldn't be that great for the dressing room and on Horcoff's spirit himself. If you were a team though, why would you tell media that you were buying out a player? Why would a team trade for him then? It makes sense to say "we aren't going to buy him out even if we don't trade him, so if you want him, trade with us."

I still think if July 3 comes around and Horcoff hasn't found a new home, MacT will buy him out. That's not public because that would hurt Horcoff's value if he had any left.

I can't disagree with anything you've said here.

One thing that sticks out for me is the fact that Mac-T has a long list of things to get done already.

Even if we keep Horcoff and Hemsky we still need a center, two wingers, an extra forward, a top four d-man, a third pairing d-man, maybe an extra d-man and a back-up goalie.

The media has speculated that Hemsky won't be back and I don't think he should be back because we want a different kind of player playing on the third line next year, don't we?

Last night I was imagining Lindholm and Monahan gone at #7 and Mac-T drafting Nichushkin. I don't know of Nichushkin's contract status with the KHL, but I imagine he could play third line minutes with us, effectively making our third line a mix of possession (Horcoff wins face-offs), grit (Nichushkin will be great in the corners for us) and scoring(Hemsky to Nichushkin and in).

On the other hand, Mac-T might draft Nurse if those guys are gone and I honestly wouldn't be shocked to see Nurse get tossed into the fire as an 18 year old. 3rd pairing minutes with Nick Schultz while Klefbom plays with Justin Schultz and Potter plays the role of our extra forward.

In either scenario, Mac-T has done nothing but sit on his hands like Tambo has and if the team is improved K-Lowe will give Mac-T credit for what Tambo had been doing all along.

I've even read non credible websites suggest that Marincin might start the next season with the Oilers. In any case it's still exactly what we've been doing before. I'll be a little surprised if Hemsky is back next season, but I won't be surprised if we have another two or three rookies taking up roster spots at the beginning of the season.

It might actually work because our top six seem to be ready to take that next big step. Our top six didn't play sheltered minutes like they did two seasons ago and that means that we don't necessarily need a line that's going to spend all of their minutes matched up against the other teams' top six.

Still gives me the jitters when I think about our blueline next year. Petry and Smid are a deadly shutdown line, but Justin Schultz needs to improve his defensive play and I think it's downright bat-**** insane for Klefbom to be playing in the NHL before he's had any time to play hockey after his injury and most importantly get used to playing hockey in North America.

Hall-Hopkins-Eberle
MPS-Gagner-Yakupov
New guy(UFA, guy from a trade, Nichushkin) - Horcoff/New guy- Hemsky/New guy
New guy-New guy/Horcoff- Brown
New guy/Petrell(please no)

Petry-Smid
Justin Schultz- Klefbom/New guy
New guy/Nurse- Klefbom/Nick Schultz
Potter/Nick Schultz

Dubby
New guy

It's incredibly frustrating to watch the days slowly peel off on the my calendar because there's so much work cut out Mac-T. Getting these roster spots plugged up with players qualified for the position and the minutes would be a huge headache for any GM IMO.

I know there are some people out there who aren't sold on MPS playing top six minutes... but he showed good chemistry last year. He doesn't make a ton of mistakes. He's a good 2 way player and most importantly it's much easier to go shopping for a quality 3rd line winger who doesn't have that "top six in a pinch" upside than it is to go out and get a legit top 6 forward. On top of that Magnus' contract will be incredibly economical for a top six forward and we can't afford to go blowing money on top six guys when we have so many other holes to fill.

 

[Lay Z Boy GM]

I can't see Horcoff not getting traded. He could help a team with loads of cap space and they won't actually be paying him that much because Katz already paid the bulk of it. I doubt we get a very good return, but I'm sure some teams will be interested.

 

[Paralyzer008]

I can't disagree with anything you've said here.

One thing that sticks out for me is the fact that Mac-T has a long list of things to get done already.

Even if we keep Horcoff and Hemsky we still need a center, two wingers, an extra forward, a top four d-man, a third pairing d-man, maybe an extra d-man and a back-up goalie.

The media has speculated that Hemsky won't be back and I don't think he should be back because we want a different kind of player playing on the third line next year, don't we?

Last night I was imagining Lindholm and Monahan gone at #7 and Mac-T drafting Nichushkin. I don't know of Nichushkin's contract status with the KHL, but I imagine he could play third line minutes with us, effectively making our third line a mix of possession (Horcoff wins face-offs), grit (Nichushkin will be great in the corners for us) and scoring(Hemsky to Nichushkin and in).

On the other hand, Mac-T might draft Nurse if those guys are gone and I honestly wouldn't be shocked to see Nurse get tossed into the fire as an 18 year old. 3rd pairing minutes with Nick Schultz while Klefbom plays with Justin Schultz and Potter plays the role of our extra forward.

In either scenario, Mac-T has done nothing but sit on his hands like Tambo has and if the team is improved K-Lowe will give Mac-T credit for what Tambo had been doing all along.

I've even read non credible websites suggest that Marincin might start the next season with the Oilers. In any case it's still exactly what we've been doing before. I'll be a little surprised if Hemsky is back next season, but I won't be surprised if we have another two or three rookies taking up roster spots at the beginning of the season.

It might actually work because our top six seem to be ready to take that next big step. Our top six didn't play sheltered minutes like they did two seasons ago and that means that we don't necessarily need a line that's going to spend all of their minutes matched up against the other teams' top six.

Still gives me the jitters when I think about our blueline next year. Petry and Smid are a deadly shutdown line, but Justin Schultz needs to improve his defensive play and I think it's downright bat-**** insane for Klefbom to be playing in the NHL before he's had any time to play hockey after his injury and most importantly get used to playing hockey in North America.

Hall-Hopkins-Eberle
MPS-Gagner-Yakupov
New guy(UFA, guy from a trade, Nichushkin) - Horcoff/New guy- Hemsky/New guy
New guy-New guy/Horcoff- Brown
New guy/Petrell(please no)

Petry-Smid
Justin Schultz- Klefbom/New guy
New guy/Nurse- Klefbom/Nick Schultz
Potter/Nick Schultz

Dubby
New guy

It's incredibly frustrating to watch the days slowly peel off on the my calendar because there's so much work cut out Mac-T. Getting these roster spots plugged up with players qualified for the position and the minutes would be a huge headache for any GM IMO.

I know there are some people out there who aren't sold on MPS playing top six minutes... but he showed good chemistry last year. He doesn't make a ton of mistakes. He's a good 2 way player and most importantly it's much easier to go shopping for a quality 3rd line winger who doesn't have that "top six in a pinch" upside than it is to go out and get a legit top 6 forward. On top of that Magnus' contract will be incredibly economical for a top six forward and we can't afford to go blowing money on top six guys when we have so many other holes to fill.

WE AGREE! I kind of think this is a miracle, two people on HFBoards fully agreeing.

Honestly, I feel like a top nine of
Hall-RNH-Eberle
Paajarvi-Gagner-Yakupov
Nichushkin-Horcoff-Hemsky

would be very, very interesting, and it's better than last year's because if Nichushkin is as good as he's been touted to be, he'll be a wrecking ball on that third line and if need be, he could be bumped up to help the smaller guys make some room.

If Hemsky goes (which seems certain), then I'd want a different type of player in his place, I like Cal Clutterbuck but I also like Viktor Stalberg in that spot if you wanted more offense, despite his offensive zone start tendencies. If you had a third line of Nichushkin-Horcoff/new guy-Stalberg, then you'd have a third line that can score, but also a third line that is big and can drive the play. If Horcoff goes, then we'll need a "Todd Marchant" somehow. All of this meaning Paajarvi can be bumped up to the 2nd line. I hope we draft a forward and not Nurse, because Nurse will take some time and a forward could help us get better now, especially Nichushkin.

As for D...I'm scared because it's still one of the worst in the league. Justin Schultz, Jeff Petry and Ladislav Smid are the only 3 I have confidence in. Belov should be fine on the 3rd pairing but we don't know who he is yet. I'd like to see Klefbom as the No.7 or 8, and I also think it's crazy to take an injured player (who is also a rookie) and throw him in the lineup immediately without AHL time. Smid, Schultz, Petry, Gilbert etc. were all rushed with minutes immediately and they struggled early, Schultz defensively was gross. On D, we need two more solid shutdown players or, if Klefbom can play third pairing minutes without sheltering, a solid top pair guy.

One of Phaneuf/Letang/Yandle/Bieksa/Edler/whoever would be a massive upgrade. Also, two of Scuderi/Hainsey/Z.Michalek(in trade)/Ference would likewise be huge. The latter is easier to do, as the first one would likely involve having to trade our pick (meaning more UFA scavenging, I think Penner would work here but it's unlikely) or trade Gagner, which would make us have to go out and sign Weiss, Roy, etc.

Nick Schultz isn't physical consistently enough for me to want to keep him.

Thinking:
Hall-RNH-Eberle
Paajarvi-Gagner-Yakupov
Nichushkin-"Todd Marchant"-Stalberg
Smyth(he isn't leaving sadly)-New guy(Zack Smith fits here)-Brown/depth player(12th and 13th forwards, Lander 14th)

Scuderi/Michalek-J.Schultz
Smid-Petry
Hainsey/Ference-Belov
Klefbom

Dubnyk
Backup

Another idea would be Stalberg on the LW, with Paajarvi-Monahan-Clutterbuck and Stalberg on line 2, if we drafted Monahan. Stalberg would take 2nd line because of his size, but him and Paajarvi could swap. Problem with this is Monahan is thrust into his role quickly.

 

[thadd]

WE AGREE! I kind of think this is a miracle, two people on HFBoards fully agreeing.

Honestly, I feel like a top nine of
Hall-RNH-Eberle
Paajarvi-Gagner-Yakupov
Nichushkin-Horcoff-Hemsky

would be very, very interesting, and it's better than last year's because if Nichushkin is as good as he's been touted to be, he'll be a wrecking ball on that third line and if need be, he could be bumped up to help the smaller guys make some room.

If Hemsky goes (which seems certain), then I'd want a different type of player in his place, I like Cal Clutterbuck but I also like Viktor Stalberg in that spot if you wanted more offense, despite his offensive zone start tendencies. If you had a third line of Nichushkin-Horcoff/new guy-Stalberg, then you'd have a third line that can score, but also a third line that is big and can drive the play. If Horcoff goes, then we'll need a "Todd Marchant" somehow. All of this meaning Paajarvi can be bumped up to the 2nd line. I hope we draft a forward and not Nurse, because Nurse will take some time and a forward could help us get better now, especially Nichushkin.

As for D...I'm scared because it's still one of the worst in the league. Justin Schultz, Jeff Petry and Ladislav Smid are the only 3 I have confidence in. Belov should be fine on the 3rd pairing but we don't know who he is yet. I'd like to see Klefbom as the No.7 or 8, and I also think it's crazy to take an injured player (who is also a rookie) and throw him in the lineup immediately without AHL time. Smid, Schultz, Petry, Gilbert etc. were all rushed with minutes immediately and they struggled early, Schultz defensively was gross. On D, we need two more solid shutdown players or, if Klefbom can play third pairing minutes without sheltering, a solid top pair guy.

One of Phaneuf/Letang/Yandle/Bieksa/Edler/whoever would be a massive upgrade. Also, two of Scuderi/Hainsey/Z.Michalek(in trade)/Ference would likewise be huge. The latter is easier to do, as the first one would likely involve having to trade our pick (meaning more UFA scavenging, I think Penner would work here but it's unlikely) or trade Gagner, which would make us have to go out and sign Weiss, Roy, etc.

Nick Schultz isn't physical consistently enough for me to want to keep him.

Thinking:
Hall-RNH-Eberle
Paajarvi-Gagner-Yakupov
Nichushkin-"Todd Marchant"-Stalberg
Smyth(he isn't leaving sadly)-New guy(Zack Smith fits here)-Brown/depth player(12th and 13th forwards, Lander 14th)

Scuderi/Michalek-J.Schultz
Smid-Petry
Hainsey/Ference-Belov
Klefbom

Dubnyk
Backup

OK well we've got Potter signed which tells me he's #7.
Getting rid of Nick Schultz won't be easy because he doesn't do a whole lot. He's not bad as a third pairing guy.
Klefbom won't be a #7 guy. He'll be in the AHL where he'll actually get minutes so that he can actually develop.

I do like the idea of Nichushkin, though.

I'll be happy with whoever we draft.

Barkov, Nichushkin, Nurse, Monahan or Lindholm... I'm confident that all of these guys should turn into really effective players that'll help us out tons.

 

[Paralyzer008]

OK well we've got Potter signed which tells me he's #7.
Getting rid of Nick Schultz won't be easy because he doesn't do a whole lot. He's not bad as a third pairing guy.
Klefbom won't be a #7 guy. He'll be in the AHL where he'll actually get minutes so that he can actually develop.

I do like the idea of Nichushkin, though.

I'll be happy with whoever we draft.

Barkov, Nichushkin, Nurse, Monahan or Lindholm... I'm confident that all of these guys should turn into really effective players that'll help us out tons.

I can live with Potter as 7 and Klefbom in the AHL. I forgot the point was to get him in the AHL

I think Carolina could take Nick Schultz on for not too much cash, he isn't a terrible 3rd pairing guy but if I could get rid of him, I'd certainly think about it.

I want a forward, my top 7 on my list are all forwards, so I'd want Barkov/Lindholm/Monahan or Nichushkin, Nurse for me is sketchier because of how long D take to develop.

 

[Fourier]

Unconditional waivers means you're being bought out, don't think anybody can claim you, different type of waivers.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, probably am

You can still be claimed off unconditional waiver. However if the player is not claimed the original team will not be able to retain his rights.

In the case of a buyout for a player with a NMC the player has the option of being placed on unconditional waivers or simply being bought out. Unless such a player feels that they would have little chance of signing for 1/3 of their current salary allowing the waivers to go ahead would be stupid.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

Letang is by no means a bad defenseman. But my argument is that a true #1 defenseman is someone that leads their team in ESTOI. I think that's a reasonable expectation.

Letang would instantly become the Oilers most impactful defenseman. #1 PP guy who probably will play a 1b role with Petry in terms of ESTOI. I see Petry Smid racking up the heavy shutdown assignments while Letang will get second pairing duties with primary offensive minutes at ES (something JSchultz isn't ready for yet).

My point is his value is quite exaggerated right now coming off of an undeserved Norris nomination and a career year for points/game.

Oilers would not only have to overpay to acquire him, but they'd probably sign him to a heavy extension right away as well.

I'd rather give JSchultz 2-3 years to become the next Letang and spend less to acquire a more pressing need - like a true top-pairing LD to play with Petry.

 

[Nic]

Letang is by no means a bad defenseman. But my argument is that a true #1 defenseman is someone that leads their team in ESTOI. I think that's a reasonable expectation.

Letang would instantly become the Oilers most impactful defenseman. #1 PP guy who probably will play a 1b role with Petry in terms of ESTOI. I see Petry Smid racking up the heavy shutdown assignments while Letang will get second pairing duties with primary offensive minutes at ES (something JSchultz isn't ready for yet).

My point is his value is quite exaggerated right now coming off of an undeserved Norris nomination and a career year for points/game.

Oilers would not only have to overpay to acquire him, but they'd probably sign him to a heavy extension right away as well.

I'd rather give JSchultz 2-3 years to become the next Letang and spend less to acquire a more pressing need - like a true top-pairing LD to play with Petry.

Fair insight, however I think 99% of us that would agree that Letang is a legit #1 or #2 d-men, maybe not quite as good as a Karlsson, Suter, Chara or Webber etc, but certainly much closer than anybody we have.

Schultz is extremely talented, but bottom line is that we need more elite defence talent, and getting it at the draft is probably only a long term solution given how long most defence take to develop. Honestly, I would much rather overpay a guy like Letang a bit, than trade for somebody like Coburn, who I don't like will improve our team nearly as much.

 

[Wadewilson]

If gagner would sign a $4mill x 5 contract then that would give us money to get Letang. He's put up more points then gagner too.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

Fair insight, however I think 99% of us that would agree that Letang is a legit #1 or #2 d-men, maybe not quite as good as a Karlsson, Suter, Chara or Webber etc, but certainly much closer than anybody we have.

Schultz is extremely talented, but bottom line is that we need more elite defence talent, and getting it at the draft is probably only a long term solution given how long most defence take to develop. Honestly, I would much rather overpay a guy like Letang a bit, than trade for somebody like Coburn, who I don't like will improve our team nearly as much.

Coburn is a RD - wouldn't do much when he's playing behind Petry as 2RD (as would Letang IMO) and leaving Schultz with limited minutes on that side.

I'm talking a solid LD - guys that when paired with Petry would produce a legitimate top pairing.

Off the top of my head - Phaneuf, Edler - hell maybe even Brian Campbell.

This would leave Smid to baby-sit J.Schultz in a 2nd pairing role - one Smid would excel in. He barely kept his head out of the water on the top pairing last year.

To be a + defenseman on a team as bad as the Oilers, while playing some of the toughest minutes in the league - Jeff Petry is ready to prove he can be part of a solid top-pairing - he just needs the right partner to shine.

 

[Paralyzer008]

Lecavalier will be bought out per Ren Lavoie

 

[Bobblehead]

Phaneuf made a lot of mistakes this year... unforced errors... some of them did not result in goals against, but enough did for the TO fanbase to take notice. He is not a stalwart, he puts himself out of position and makes some questionable decisions/fumbles with the puck. You can pick on anyone in these regards, but by my eye he made more than you would expect from a captain. Can't say that he would be any worse than our guys, but he is far from an ideal candidate. We really need someone with their head on straight at the price level we're shopping.

Glenn Healey said (didn't check stat) that Dion won the giveaway title this year in the NHL. I've always said Dion is not a good passer and decision maker. Would be much happier with Gardiner.

 

[Peter Zezel]

Lecavalier will be bought out per Ren Lavoie

The guy is still very productive, although not worth his cap hit/length. Very interested in where he signs.

 

[CornKicker]

It should be interesting. What I think is most interesting, though, is how a player like Brad Richards, who has a NMC, can be placed on waivers and sent to a team that he doesnt want to play for. Does this not violate his contract in some way? I can't figure that one out.

waivers is the only way around a NMC really. the team needs some way to get rid of the contract and face the financial consequences for it.

 

[Soli]

Lecavalier will be bought out per Ren Lavoie

He just became the best FA center on the market. Oooo.

 

[McDoused]

Vinny probably signs in Montreal.

 

[CornKicker]

Lecavalier will be bought out per Ren Lavoie

i would love Vinnie on the oilers for 3-4 years @5Mish. he is still a very effective player and a perfect leader for the young group. Stanley cup winner and great #2C and could eat hard minutes to help RNH develop his overall game.

 

[CornKicker]

Vinny probably signs in Montreal.

i wouldnt be surprised if Feaster plucks him off waivers before he gets to UFA

 

[Fourier]

i wouldnt be surprised if Feaster plucks him off waivers before he gets to UFA

He won't go on waivers. He has a NMC and will almost for sure choose the FA route.

 

[Soli]

He won't go on waivers. He has a NMC and will almost for sure choose the FA route.

Does Vinny and other players with NMCs have that as an option? Decline being picked up?

nielson1260
From Dreger this morning....there is interest in Horcoff, a trade will likely happen but the Oilers will need to keep a chunk of his salary

 

[Spawn]

I too would love Lecavalier for a few years at 5 million.

Problem is I think 1/2 the teams in the league would too, and realistically there is no reason why he would sign in Edmonton. Maybe if we were a contender, but we aren't. I bet the Stars land him... not that they are a contender, but he has spent his entire career in a market where he can go around with no one knowing who he is. Doubt he changes that now.

 

[McDoused]

Dredger reporting that Kris Letang is likely to sign for the 7 mill he was seeking. Between him and the Kunitz signing, I think something has to give.