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Rumor: Trade Rumor Thread IV - "What's all the roar over RoR?"

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TrueBlue9 said:
Trading Gaborik is silly. You aren't going to get a roster player of equal value so the team will automatically be less skilled. What you will get is immediate cap space and a pick. He's off the books after 2014 anyway. But we are not rebuilding. If cap space is your priority the only high end player to consider trading is Richards. His production can be replaced at the level he is in now, and the cap space over the next 8(!) years is invaluable.
Click to expand...

To be fair, you trade Gaborik for a good young roster player, pick or prospect who has potential, not someone who is as good as Gaborik now. It's a move for the future.
 
Barnaby said:
They don't need to trade Yandle... you need to entice them so Stepan and Kreider or Miller. I think Miller will be the better NHL'er so I keep Miller. Korpikoski is fast and can score 15-20 goals plus PK.

Yandle is great... Yogan, St. Croix, a 2nd? These additions don't get you anything. Would you deal Staal if a major part of the package was a 2nd, Yogan and St. Croix? Obviously not. You'd say come back when I can't say no.
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Agree they don't NEED to trade Yandle; however, it is common knowledge that there are rumblings of a D for help at W, preferably a scorer. Doesn't have to be Yandle. But they would move him for enough return.

Kreider will be proven to be too much to sacrifice, esp w a core of Stepan

1.5 Hagelins would do the job, so Stepan+.
Yogan is big, St. Croix not so much but both have scoring track records + are cheap. And a second, while not a first, is still a nice return, esp if we tank

Would you deal Staal if a major part of the package was a 2nd, Yogan and St. Croix?
depends on the balance of the package.

I think it is enough of a return as to value.
Ir is a fair question as to whether or not Phx gets a better offer, so how much do we up ours in response remains to be seen
 
bernmeister said:
Agree they don't NEED to trade Yandle; however, it is common knowledge that there are rumblings of a D for help at W, preferably a scorer. Doesn't have to be Yandle. But they would move him for enough return.

Kreider will be proven to be too much to sacrifice, esp w a core of Stepan

1.5 Hagelins would do the job, so Stepan+.
Yogan is big, St. Croix not so much but both have scoring track records + are cheap. And a second, while not a first, is still a nice return, esp if we tank

Would you deal Staal if a major part of the package was a 2nd, Yogan and St. Croix?
depends on the balance of the package.

I think it is enough of a return as to value.
Ir is a fair question as to whether or not Phx gets a better offer, so how much do we up ours in response remains to be seen
Click to expand...

Nope.

I'm trading a defensemen who plays 25-28 min a game. I don't want 'ifs' I don't want your 9th or 10th best prospect. This is not a video game. I want guys that WILL play.

Stepan will be my #2 center... Kreider WILL play for me. If you don't want to look into Yandle then that's fine... but if you do, then you need real pieces. I'd take Yogan if I got him for free, but does he factor into a trade for a guy whose on the ice half of a game and a top notch player? No.
 
bernmeister said:
Agree they don't NEED to trade Yandle; however, it is common knowledge that there are rumblings of a D for help at W, preferably a scorer. Doesn't have to be Yandle. But they would move him for enough return.

Kreider will be proven to be too much to sacrifice, esp w a core of Stepan

1.5 Hagelins would do the job, so Stepan+.
Yogan is big, St. Croix not so much but both have scoring track records + are cheap. And a second, while not a first, is still a nice return, esp if we tank

Would you deal Staal if a major part of the package was a 2nd, Yogan and St. Croix?
depends on the balance of the package.

I think it is enough of a return as to value.
Ir is a fair question as to whether or not Phx gets a better offer, so how much do we up ours in response remains to be seen
Click to expand...

No way to the bolded. Not a chance. A second round pick has a 20% chance of even making the NHL and Yogan and St. Croix likely have a lower chance than that. A major part of a top pairing defender?


You keep talking about unleashing the Kreider as if he was some dragon. He was unleashed in the playoffs with no responsibility and rode 5 goals in 18 games. He's not the next Keon. Right now, it looks like we might get a Stalberg. Which, while valuable, isn't exactly that great a player. He's been given plenty of opportunities to succeed and I know he'll get better as he's still adjusting. But Tortorella is teaching him to be a two-way player, which even if it decreases his point totals, makes him more valuable as a player.

Players like Briere and Richards don't try hard defensively and it shows. Players like Toews and Hossa do. It's which a player like Bergeron or ROR is more valuable than a 75 point one-way dynamo.
 
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Best hope the return has the same impact Gaborik does because 40 goals doesnt grow on trees.
 
Stefan Elliott played his best game last night for the Avs in his short 4 game NHL career. He has been paired with Greg Zanon. Elliott is a right handed shot. Hedja-Barrie. Hunwick-O'Bryne. O'Brien is still a healthy scratch. Elliott looked lost until last night against the Ducks. If not Barrie,then Elliott.
 
This team needs to bring in at least 2 nasty players at I deadline.

When's trade deadline this year?

How about Skrudland and Keane?
 
A couple of things.

I speculates and day dream as much as/more then everyone else. But after the last couple of things, I've started to see a few things in a bit diffrent light.

FOR STARTERS, the more of the trio of Feds, Prust and Mitchell we could have kept -- we should have kept. We have 5 new forwards, of 12, with Kreider and thats just way too much for a couple of years probably. We tried to insert that number (or is it 6 now with Miller?) our a summer. That's Slats in a nutshell.

You can always look around and find teams that did well with plenty of new guys (LA?) and you can fool yourself with deals that makes sense on paper -- but you should just not go with the option to enter a season with 5 new forwards. You tear down a ton of what you have built the previous years.

Slats obviously screwed up here, and as a long time fan, that really annoys me. Its always the story with Slats, screw up after screw up after screw up. We can point at a ton of things he has done really well, but I F'ing hate that we qo in a direction and then after two weeks find out that darn this didn't work. We have to make more changes.

Torts and Slats are professionals. They should not have the team they had last season and then put a team on the ice this season that:
1. Can't PK.
2. Don't have a 4th line.
3. Don't have a 6th D.
4. Has a unblanaced 3rd line.

They don't have the ability to sit down before a season and figure out if 3 players wiill work as a 4th line in this league or not???? WTF. There are so many coach/GM duos out there that never would let that happend. And I am not even getting into the biggest problem -- 5. Don't have a PP -- because it wasn't that easy to know how our PP would look with Nash on it.

SO NO MORE FINE TUNINGS. I am sorry, we are out of moves in this department. Slats had his goes, now he can't mess with the room and chemistry more.

BUT WE STILL NEED TO FIX THE PP. Lets be serious here. Enough is enough. There is no short cuts to get a better power play for this team. We can forget about that. We need to acknowledge that the power play in the NHL anno 2013 is MECHANICAL. You put players with their sticks point specific directions on the ice and you have players with specific abilities in certain positions. Then you on play after play after play do the same thing and you get up towards 20% by playing the odds.

Our PP is becoming Philly's goalie postion. We -- here in NY -- laugh at Philly for not taking care of their goalie position, like no matter the cost. We are in that boat -- now -- here in NY. We get a whole bunch of players for this and that position, but since our half arsed attempt with Kolarik we really has not paid any attention to brining in role players for our PP, we have just tried to make due with what we have and -- ding ding -- it is not working.

With Richards already on the team, it -- IMHO -- makes more sense to build form his side (as opposed to from Stepan's side).
Hence we need a:
1. left handed playmaker down low, and
2. a right shooting PPQB.

If we got a good right shooting PPQB, make Nash can get by in the left handed playmaking role.

IN THE END, Slats has -- screwed -- around with a ton of unnecessary lateral moves (Asham for Prust, Halpern for Mitchell, Powe for Fedetenko) that has really screwed with our chemistry. Enough with these kind of moves already. Enough with looking at waiver pickups and who possibly could help our depth and slightly improve player x or y. We could possibly afford to make a change or two more the coming yearS, with those moves we better fix our frekin PP. JT Miller will help with the 3rd line, and push Boyle back to the 4th line in the coming years. McI will help with toughness in 2-3 years. Fasth/Thomas/Lindberg/Hrivik and co will give us some depth.

Just get a right handed PPQB already. Not getting one could like -- litterarty -- destroy Brad Richards career. That is one of the costs, of many others. Besides just not getting any production from our PP. Besides letting teams know that they can be out there and head hunt with it only giving them momentum because we will screw up and loose all energy by yet another horrible PP display.

FIX THE PP!
 
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^ my response more directed at the earlier part of your post...

I agree in part. No need yo part ways with all of Prust, Mitchell, and Pyatt. Just plain stupid, when you're already losing mainstays in AA and Duby.

I'll never understand this Halpen for Mitchell trade esp with the former 10 yrs older! Beyond stupid. Pyatt is an upgrade over Feds who did essentially nothing...
Prust was an integral player for this squad. You can't lose players like this if you don't replace what they bring... Typical Sather


Again, though feeling this turnover wouldn't have been this bad if it were a regular season. This season is an anomaly.
 
NikC said:
^ my response more directed at the earlier part of your post...

I agree in part. No need yo part ways with all of Prust, Mitchell, and Pyatt. Just plain stupid, when you're already losing mainstays in AA and Duby.

I'll never understand this Halpen for Mitchell trade esp with the former 10 yrs older! Beyond stupid. Pyatt is an upgrade over Feds who did essentially nothing...
Prust was an integral player for this squad. You can't lose players like this if you don't replace what they bring... Typical Sather


Again, though feeling this turnover wouldn't have been this bad if it were a regular season. This season is an anomaly.
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Mitchel makes more moeny than Halpern so that's one thing........also Mitchel is a dime a dozen so replacing a 4th line guy who has played just as much in the AHL as the NHL is not a big deal. Halpern has done just fine in his role.

Again if Nash doesnt get hurt this team does not lose 3 in a row. Powe was also giving them a good 4th line.........injuries happen, deal with it............the team is not THAT different than last yrs............if they win 3 in a row everyone can shut up
 
Ola said:
A couple of things.

I speculates and day dream as much as/more then everyone else. But after the last couple of things, I've started to see a few things in a bit diffrent light.

FOR STARTERS, the more of the trio of Feds, Prust and Mitchell we could have kept -- we should have kept. We have 5 new forwards, of 12, with Kreider and thats just way too much for a couple of years probably. We tried to insert that number (or is it 6 now with Miller?) our a summer. That's Slats in a nutshell.

You can always look around and find teams that did well with plenty of new guys (LA?) and you can fool yourself with deals that makes sense on paper -- but you should just not go with the option to enter a season with 5 new forwards. You tear down a ton of what you have built the previous years.

Slats obviously screwed up here, and as a long time fan, that really annoys me. Its always the story with Slats, screw up after screw up after screw up. We can point at a ton of things he has done really well, but I F'ing hate that we qo in a direction and then after two weeks find out that darn this didn't work. We have to make more changes.

Torts and Slats are professionals. They should not have the team they had last season and then put a team on the ice this season that:
1. Can't PK.
2. Don't have a 4th line.
3. Don't have a 6th D.
4. Has a unblanaced 3rd line.

They don't have the ability to sit down before a season and figure out if 3 players wiill work as a 4th line in this league or not???? WTF. There are so many coach/GM duos out there that never would let that happend. And I am not even getting into the biggest problem -- 5. Don't have a PP -- because it wasn't that easy to know how our PP would look with Nash on it.

SO NO MORE FINE TUNINGS. I am sorry, we are out of moves in this department. Slats had his goes, now he can't mess with the room and chemistry more.

BUT WE STILL NEED TO FIX THE PP. Lets be serious here. Enough is enough. There is no short cuts to get a better power play for this team. We can forget about that. We need to acknowledge that the power play in the NHL anno 2013 is MECHANICAL. You put players with their sticks point specific directions on the ice and you have players with specific abilities in certain positions. Then you on play after play after play do the same thing and you get up towards 20% by playing the odds.

Our PP is becoming Philly's goalie postion. We -- here in NY -- laugh at Philly for not taking care of their goalie position, like no matter the cost. We are in that boat -- now -- here in NY. We get a whole bunch of players for this and that position, but since our half arsed attempt with Kolarik we really has not paid any attention to brining in role players for our PP, we have just tried to make due with what we have and -- ding ding -- it is not working.

With Richards already on the team, it -- IMHO -- makes more sense to build form his side (as opposed to from Stepan's side).
Hence we need a:
1. left handed playmaker down low, and
2. a right shooting PPQB.

If we got a good right shooting PPQB, make Nash can get by in the left handed playmaking role.

IN THE END, Slats has -- screwed -- around with a ton of unnecessary lateral moves (Asham for Prust, Halpern for Mitchell, Powe for Fedetenko) that has really screwed with our chemistry. Enough with these kind of moves already. Enough with looking at waiver pickups and who possibly could help our depth and slightly improve player x or y. We could possibly afford to make a change or two more the coming yearS, with those moves we better fix our frekin PP. JT Miller will help with the 3rd line, and push Boyle back to the 4th line in the coming years. McI will help with toughness in 2-3 years. Fasth/Thomas/Lindberg/Hrivik and co will give us some depth.

Just get a right handed PPQB already. Not getting one could like -- litterarty -- destroy Brad Richards career. That is one of the costs, of many others. Besides just not getting any production from our PP. Besides letting teams know that they can be out there and head hunt with it only giving them momentum because we will screw up and loose all energy by yet another horrible PP display.

FIX THE PP!
Click to expand...


great post bc this is the main issue that people dont seem to get.. It not the current personnel, coachs, system.. its the change in players from last year from this year.. Idk why we didn't resign feds, mitchell, prust (even if we overpaid $2m caphit) at least we wouldv't had team chemistry building off previous years.. its also the fact that these players are replaceable bc everyone is, it just team chemistry is huge and you want everyone playing as one unit.. this current team will just take time to regain it from last year.. we just have to be patient and let them all grow and bond together..
 
My Plan for the 2013 off-season:

Trades:

To NSH:
Richards

To NYR:
Hornqvist + Ellis + NSH 1st '13



To DET:
Gaborik + Pyatt

To NYR:
Tatar + Sheahan + DET 1st '13 + DET 2nd '14


To COL:
MDZ + Boyle

To NYR:
ROR + Barrie



Signings:
Getzlaf @ 7 year for 52.5 million (7.5 million/year)
Streit @ 2 years for 7 million (3.5 million/year)
Regehr @ 2 years for 5 million (2.5 million/year)

Lines:

Hagelin-Getzlaf-Nash
Tatar-ROR-Callahan
Kreider-Stepan-Hornqvist
Powe-Miller-Asham/Haley/Mashinter

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Streit
Regehr-McIlrath/Ellis
Bickel

Hank
Biron
 
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Brandon Prust has a cap hit of 2.5M. For four years. At a time when his style of play is going to wear down his body like going off a cliff.

Yes, he was a great teammate. And great on the forecheck and helpful on the PK. But 2.5 million for a 4th liner makes zero sense.

Then you're stuck sacrificing in other areas. Maybe my having to create more churn by getting rid of guys and replacing them with even more guys who are cheaper alternatives. I thought that was what you don't want?

Regarding Feds and Mitchell, I thought they both wanted out. Feds for more playing time, and Mitchell for both time and money.

Retaining players isn't just about what the GM wants.

And who would complain about Powe being on this team? He's made for the Rangers style of play. That's a new face that fits perfectly onto our old body in need of a spark.
 
Ola said:
A couple of things.

I speculates and day dream as much as/more then everyone else. But after the last couple of things, I've started to see a few things in a bit diffrent light.

FOR STARTERS, the more of the trio of Feds, Prust and Mitchell we could have kept -- we should have kept. We have 5 new forwards, of 12, with Kreider and thats just way too much for a couple of years probably. We tried to insert that number (or is it 6 now with Miller?) our a summer. That's Slats in a nutshell.

You can always look around and find teams that did well with plenty of new guys (LA?) and you can fool yourself with deals that makes sense on paper -- but you should just not go with the option to enter a season with 5 new forwards. You tear down a ton of what you have built the previous years.

Slats obviously screwed up here, and as a long time fan, that really annoys me. Its always the story with Slats, screw up after screw up after screw up. We can point at a ton of things he has done really well, but I F'ing hate that we qo in a direction and then after two weeks find out that darn this didn't work. We have to make more changes.

Torts and Slats are professionals. They should not have the team they had last season and then put a team on the ice this season that:
1. Can't PK.
2. Don't have a 4th line.
3. Don't have a 6th D.
4. Has a unblanaced 3rd line.

They don't have the ability to sit down before a season and figure out if 3 players wiill work as a 4th line in this league or not???? WTF. There are so many coach/GM duos out there that never would let that happend. And I am not even getting into the biggest problem -- 5. Don't have a PP -- because it wasn't that easy to know how our PP would look with Nash on it.

SO NO MORE FINE TUNINGS. I am sorry, we are out of moves in this department. Slats had his goes, now he can't mess with the room and chemistry more.

BUT WE STILL NEED TO FIX THE PP. Lets be serious here. Enough is enough. There is no short cuts to get a better power play for this team. We can forget about that. We need to acknowledge that the power play in the NHL anno 2013 is MECHANICAL. You put players with their sticks point specific directions on the ice and you have players with specific abilities in certain positions. Then you on play after play after play do the same thing and you get up towards 20% by playing the odds.

Our PP is becoming Philly's goalie postion. We -- here in NY -- laugh at Philly for not taking care of their goalie position, like no matter the cost. We are in that boat -- now -- here in NY. We get a whole bunch of players for this and that position, but since our half arsed attempt with Kolarik we really has not paid any attention to brining in role players for our PP, we have just tried to make due with what we have and -- ding ding -- it is not working.

With Richards already on the team, it -- IMHO -- makes more sense to build form his side (as opposed to from Stepan's side).
Hence we need a:
1. left handed playmaker down low, and
2. a right shooting PPQB.

If we got a good right shooting PPQB, make Nash can get by in the left handed playmaking role.

IN THE END, Slats has -- screwed -- around with a ton of unnecessary lateral moves (Asham for Prust, Halpern for Mitchell, Powe for Fedetenko) that has really screwed with our chemistry. Enough with these kind of moves already. Enough with looking at waiver pickups and who possibly could help our depth and slightly improve player x or y. We could possibly afford to make a change or two more the coming yearS, with those moves we better fix our frekin PP. JT Miller will help with the 3rd line, and push Boyle back to the 4th line in the coming years. McI will help with toughness in 2-3 years. Fasth/Thomas/Lindberg/Hrivik and co will give us some depth.

Just get a right handed PPQB already. Not getting one could like -- litterarty -- destroy Brad Richards career. That is one of the costs, of many others. Besides just not getting any production from our PP. Besides letting teams know that they can be out there and head hunt with it only giving them momentum because we will screw up and loose all energy by yet another horrible PP display.

FIX THE PP!
Click to expand...

Spot on Ola!
The PP covers alot of warts, and if your PP is as awful as ours, it means everyone must play at the top of their game every night to stand a chance to win.
 
Prust is the only one of those three they really miss. Halpern and Powe have been good additions. For every good moment Mitchell and Feds had, they also had some poor ones. The thing they miss most about those two is their familiarity.

When healthy, Powe, Halpern, Asham is a pretty good 4th line. Probably the first time in awhile the 4th line doesn't scare the **** out of me everytime it hits the ice.
 
NYR Boyler87 said:
My Plan for the 2013 off-season:

Trades:

To NSH:
Richards

To NYR:
Hornqvist + Ellis + NSH 1st '13



To DET:
Gaborik + Pyatt

To NYR:
Tatar + Sheahan + DET 1st '13 + DET 2nd '14


To COL:
MDZ + Boyle

To NYR:
ROR + Barrie



Signings:
Getzlaf @ 7 year for 52.5 million (7.5 million/year)
Streit @ 2 years for 7 million (3.5 million/year)
Regehr @ 2 years for 5 million (2.5 million/year)

Lines:

Hagelin-Getzlaf-Nash
Tatar-ROR-Callahan
Kreider-Miller-Hornqvist
Powe-_______(Lindberg/Sheahan/Watson)-Asham/Haley/Mashinter

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Streit
Regehr-McIlrath/Ellis
Bickel

Hank
Biron
Click to expand...

I like it overall, but neither the NSH or DET trade are realistic, imo.
 
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