Rumor: Trade Rumor Thread IV - "What's all the roar over RoR?"

[SnowblindNYR]

Getzlaf lol.. our top 4 might soon be. Staal stralman del zotto gilroy.. lol

What can you do with injuries?

 

[Heyoooo*]

Dude, how many D-men do you want? We had 3 of the top 4 D-men hurt. How many teams can take that kind of hit like that an ice a decent D-Corp? Our top 4 is good. Stralman is a very good #5. Sure we're a little week at #6. How many teams aren't? Gilroy has actually played pretty well. What kind of depth do you want 3 of your top 4 D-men are hurt? It's like Hossa, Kane, and Sharp being hurt for the Hawks. They won't look that good anymore.

This is spot on.

 

[pld459666]

Columbus is LOOOOVING this.

As would I if I were them.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Nice pivot. Your point WAS a #3C was more important than DZ.

My point was we have worse depth at C than at D. At C when everyone is healthy we have Brian friggin Boyle. That's awful on the 3rd line, that's not serviceable. On D, we're shaky at #6 D. #3 center is more important than #6 D. Either way I look at the future. Centers <30 that are proven = Stepan. D-men <30 that are proven (minus DZ)= McDonagh, Staal, and Girardi. All 3 of those players are better than Stepan. You have to look at the future too.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Columbus is LOOOOVING this.

As would I if I were them.

Well, I love Nash and Nash is better than all three of the players they got combined (I might as well throw in Marchessault as well), but the real question is who they will select with our first rounder.

 

[Kershaw]

Whacky Trades to fix the team

Just for entertainment purposes

To
Callahan
Boyle
Miller/Kreider
2014 2nd

To
Pavelski
Boyle
Handzus

To
Brad Richards

To
Radek Faska
2013 First Round Pick
Tomas Vincour

To
Michael Del Zotto
Christian Thomas

to
Ryan O'Reilly
Stefan Elliott

To
Kreider/Miller

To
Glencross

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Glencross-O'Reilly-Gaborik
Pyatt-Pavelski-Vincour
Powe-Halpern-Asham
Bickel

Staal-Boyle
McDonagh-Girardi
Stralman-Elliot
Gilroy

 

[DanNYI2191]

He has been GOD AWFUL in Buffalo this season.



My wish-list would be:

Streit
Smid
Murray

Streit is a legit top-4 PPQB

Wait until you see his true defensive game

 

[trilobyte]

Just for entertainment purposes

To
Callahan
Boyle
Miller/Kreider
2014 2nd

To
Pavelski
Boyle
Handzus

To
Brad Richards

To
Radek Faska
2013 First Round Pick
Tomas Vincour

To
Michael Del Zotto
Christian Thomas

to
Ryan O'Reilly
Stefan Elliott

To
Kreider/Miller

To
Glencross

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Glencross-O'Reilly-Gaborik
Pyatt-Pavelski-Vincour
Powe-Halpern-Asham
Bickel

Staal-Boyle
McDonagh-Girardi
Stralman-Elliot
Gilroy

A couple of players who I have always wished were Rangers are Dan Boyle and Curtis Glencross.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Just for entertainment purposes

To
Callahan
Boyle
Miller/Kreider
2014 2nd

To
Pavelski
Boyle
Handzus

To
Brad Richards

To
Radek Faska
2013 First Round Pick
Tomas Vincour

To
Michael Del Zotto
Christian Thomas

to
Ryan O'Reilly
Stefan Elliott

To
Kreider/Miller

To
Glencross

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Glencross-O'Reilly-Gaborik
Pyatt-Pavelski-Vincour
Powe-Halpern-Asham
Bickel

Staal-Boyle
McDonagh-Girardi
Stralman-Elliot
Gilroy

I thought you loved Boyle and didn't want ROR.

 

[Kershaw]

A couple of players who I have always wished were Rangers are Dan Boyle and Curtis Glencross.

Yeah same here! I've been pushing for Dan Boyle since I joined this website!

 

[Vitto79]

Yeah same here! I've been pushing for Dan Boyle since I joined this website!

yea but for what? Would have to be a mega deal.......like Boyle, Pavelski for Del Zotto, Gaborik............something insane centered around those guys

 

[Made Dan]

Would love to trade for Doug Murray. It's a no-brainer to me. Would also like to try and get Adam Burish thrown in.

 

[Kershaw]

Would love to trade for Doug Murray. It's a no-brainer to me. Would also like to try and get Adam Burish thrown in.

Sharks fan have been saying Murray has been blowing chunks the past 2 seasons, along with Clowe. I don't see them helping out tbh.

 

[Kwayry]

Where is this so called strong organizational depth at D?
Let's dig a little deeper.
McIlrath is not ready for the show this season. The right way to bring him up is next season after a full training camp.
But for argument's sake, let's assume that he is ready and everybody else (Except DZ since he is a luxury we don't need) is healthy.
Girardi-McD
Staal-Stralman
Gilroy-McI
Eminger (For lack of better quality)

What depth is there behind?
None, Skjei is 2 years away at least.
You are left with Sean Collins and Mike Vernace from Hartford. Is that the organizational depth?
Oops, forgot Bickel ... Maybe he is the difference maker.

Our only saving grace is if (Big IF) Sauer comes back healthy next season.

We HAD depth, that's why we traded Tomas Kundratek to the caps, I am certain Sather wishes he can have him back.
That depth disappeared when Sauer got injured and Erixon got traded.


Finally, Here is the reason why we need better quality depth at D.
Below is the breakdown of the Rangers and the Bruins D minute distribution.
(You can try the Isles, Pens, Devils or Flyers for comparison too if you prefer, they are more balanced than ours)

Rangers
Marc Staal 24:30
Del Zotto 22:10
Dan Girardi 25:00
Ryan McDonagh 23:44
Anton Stralman 16:48
Matt Gilroy 9:52
Stu Bickel 5:36
Steve Eminger 5:52

Bruins
Dougie Hamilton 17:49
Zdeno Chara 25:20
Dennis Seidenberg 23:20
Johnny Boychuk 20:43
Andrew Ference 18:01
Adam McQuaid 14:14
Aaron Johnson 13:54

 

[The Sweetness]

I'm not arguing that a player never doubles his production. I'm arguing that it's not common.

The power of denial is strong in you...

Third year in the league, he's suddenly putting up 2nd line production. He doubles his previous career high. How often do you see numbers jump like that?! Answer--you don't. Development is nearly always incremental. What changed? One thing--Landeskog got stapled to his wing.

I listed several examples of players who did not go through incremental development disproving your notion. You obviously have difficulty accepting that development is not nearly always incremental but it's clear that O'Reilly is not alone in his offensive deveopment.

Out of your list, only a couple actually fit the bill, and they have mitigating circumstances. My entire point is that when a player starts putting up points well beyond what has always been his projected ceiling, it's likely got more to due with the elite guy who suddenly lined up next to him.



Did you think I wouldn't check or something? Let's take a look at your list. I've rearranged them into five groups--

The Gang of 2005/2006: The first year after the last lockout produced career years for most of the league. Did you not think it was kind of odd that half the guys on your list (Zetterberg, Samuelsson, Sedin, Vishnovsky, Sharp) ALL had such a huge jump in the same season? Doubling your previous career high WAS fairly "normal" in 2005-2006. Since that's not when O'Reilly did it, these guys are completely irrelevant.

Elite Prospects: Seguin (2nd overall) and Stamkos (1st overall) aren't expected to follow a "normal development." They are elite prospects. The only reason their second season stands out is because they didn't do it in their first season. People were calling Stamkos a bust in his first year. Their second years MET the expectations for the player/ceiling.

Guys that Actually Prove My Point For Me: You really included Boyle, Raymond and Burrows?! Boyle was a one year wonder. Raymond was a product of Kesler and the Sedins that year, and he's never come close to those numbers since. Burrows is pretty much ONLY effective with the Sedins.

Guys You Were Just Wrong About: Byfuglien did not actually double his production. Not even close really. He did see a jump in production, but it wasn't massive and it also came with a SEVEN MINUTE increase in ice-time. You are also the only person who seems to think he played defense that year. He was marked as a D on the roster, but he was basically a 4th forward the whole season. Dude made Green look defensively responsible.

You were also off on Gaborik. He saw an increase, but it wasn't double and he played 7 more games than the previous year.


Leftover Guys Who Don't Fit Into an Obvious Category:
Loui Eriksson IS a case of a player who doubled his production without being an elite prospect at the time. Even with that, he played 10+ more games than he did the previous season. Eriksson progressed to be sure, but it's not the exact same situation.

St. Louis is pretty much the same story--yeah, he did it, but he had also never played a full season before the one where he broke out.

As for Chara, yes, he doubled his numbers, but there's a bit of a difference between going from ~10 points to ~20 points and going from 26 points to 55. Also, if you look at Chara's line, he DOES develop incrementally.

Everyone fits the bill in that they did not develop incrementally. You obviously have a hard time dealing with the overwhelming evidence against you as you make such a case of me listing Byfuglin (despite moving from forward to defense) and Gaborik because they did not strictly double their production. However, that isn't really the point is it? We are discussing development nearly always being incremental when it is clearly not, even if you try and hide behind poor arguments because you were clearly called out and disproven.

The fact is that O'Reilly did not double his production on a ppg basis either, but he drastically increased it like all the examples I provided.The point is that players throughout the league sometimes go through dramatic increases in their production for various reasons.

Attributing O'Reilly's offensive improvement solely to playing with better players is lazy and incorrect. Also, you may not understand this but good players end up playing with good players. When players develop and show more offensive ability they get moved up to the second or first line and get powerplay time. Just like in O'Reilly's case or many of the cases I stated.

It is comical how you try and discredit some of the examples. For example, Seguin and Stamkos because they were drafted highly or Raymond because he played with Kesler (newsflash - if you play well in the NHL you will play with good players).

Perhaps you should start listing disclaimers next time before you make a definitive statement so you don't have to backtrack? I'm not sure what you thought you proved with your post rather than trying to hide behind a lot of words and no substance.

This would be more simple if you just state what kind of offense O'Reilly will produce throughout his career if you feel his offensive is a product of Landeskog. I think this will probably be the only way to get a read on what kind of player you think O'Reilly is.

Are you thinking 30-40 points as a standard season?

 

[LetterJ]

Where is Pavel Valentenko when you really need him?

 

[NYRfan11]

Not sure if anyone has brought this idea up, but let's assume for a second that MDZ for O'Reilly gets it done.

Do you think Calgary would do Richards for Bouwmeester? I think they would totally do that--Feaster loves Richards, they have been looking for a legit center for Iginla forever. It is apparent Feaster has put off rebuilding and continues to do so. I think Feaster wants to make another push instead of trading off Iginla and Kipper. Salaries match up, and for Calgary it is not a risk either. If things go terribly wrong, he could buy out Richards summer of '14.

For us, Bouw plays a lot of minutes--would help with these injuries obviously. If we want to trade him in the summer, we could easily do so. And it saves us a buyout for the summer of '14 if we make a dumb signing in the summer of '13.

 

[Leetch66]

Not sure if anyone has brought this idea up, but let's assume for a second that MDZ for O'Reilly gets it done.

Do you think Calgary would do Richards for Bouwmeester? I think they would totally do that--Feaster loves Richards, they have been looking for a legit center for Iginla forever. It is apparent Feaster has put off rebuilding and continues to do so. I think Feaster wants to make another push instead of trading off Iginla and Kipper. Salaries match up, and for Calgary it is not a risk either. If things go terribly wrong, he could buy out Richards summer of '14.

For us, Bouw plays a lot of minutes--would help with these injuries obviously. If we want to trade him in the summer, we could easily do so. And it saves us a buyout for the summer of '14 if we make a dumb signing in the summer of '13.

No team other than the NYR would be foolish enough to take a contract like Richards has . I doubt Calgary would want to think about wasting that amount of loot on a buy out...there are less risky options available I have to believe .

However I was also wondering about J Bo . How could we fit him in here both roster wise and Cap wise over the long haul . He has the rushing and shooting skills we lack on our blueline but he also is a pacifist like most of our current crew . I think we would have to move somebody back like Girardi ? I think J Bow helps us in a lot of ways and helps kickstart the PP and the rush at least on every other shift .

Anyone have any ideas on how we could accommodate J Bow . Can or would Calgary pick up some of his salary ?

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

Not sure if anyone has brought this idea up, but let's assume for a second that MDZ for O'Reilly gets it done.

Do you think Calgary would do Richards for Bouwmeester? I think they would totally do that--Feaster loves Richards, they have been looking for a legit center for Iginla forever. It is apparent Feaster has put off rebuilding and continues to do so. I think Feaster wants to make another push instead of trading off Iginla and Kipper. Salaries match up, and for Calgary it is not a risk either. If things go terribly wrong, he could buy out Richards summer of '14.

For us, Bouw plays a lot of minutes--would help with these injuries obviously. If we want to trade him in the summer, we could easily do so. And it saves us a buyout for the summer of '14 if we make a dumb signing in the summer of '13.

Yea Calgary might. No way Richards does Richards for JBo. He's not waiving a NMC for Calgary

 

[Matt4776]

I would still rather try to sign Getzlaf than trade away DZ for a center with only one good year of production, and I'm not even a huge Getzlaf fan.

Kreider-Getzlaf-Nash (This is a big, mean 1st line)
Hagelin-Stepan-Gaborik (Gabby/Hags can make up for Stepan's speed)
Pyatt-Miller-Callahan (Next year Miller should be ready for full-time duty)
Powe-Boyle-Asham

McD-G
Staal-Stralman
DZ-McIlrath

3 pairings that can all play ~20 minutes a night if need be.

Stralman has been incredibly solid for us. At the same time, I would look to replace him with someone who has a bit of a nicer shot and can contribute on the PP.

 

[Vitto79]

how about a deal for Clutterbuck when healthy............Boyle going back?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Where is this so called strong organizational depth at D?
Let's dig a little deeper.
McIlrath is not ready for the show this season. The right way to bring him up is next season after a full training camp.
But for argument's sake, let's assume that he is ready and everybody else (Except DZ since he is a luxury we don't need) is healthy.
Girardi-McD
Staal-Stralman
Gilroy-McI
Eminger (For lack of better quality)

What depth is there behind?
None, Skjei is 2 years away at least.
You are left with Sean Collins and Mike Vernace from Hartford. Is that the organizational depth?
Oops, forgot Bickel ... Maybe he is the difference maker.

Our only saving grace is if (Big IF) Sauer comes back healthy next season.

We HAD depth, that's why we traded Tomas Kundratek to the caps, I am certain Sather wishes he can have him back.
That depth disappeared when Sauer got injured and Erixon got traded.


Finally, Here is the reason why we need better quality depth at D.
Below is the breakdown of the Rangers and the Bruins D minute distribution.
(You can try the Isles, Pens, Devils or Flyers for comparison too if you prefer, they are more balanced than ours)

Rangers
Marc Staal 24:30
Del Zotto 22:10
Dan Girardi 25:00
Ryan McDonagh 23:44
Anton Stralman 16:48
Matt Gilroy 9:52
Stu Bickel 5:36
Steve Eminger 5:52

Bruins
Dougie Hamilton 17:49
Zdeno Chara 25:20
Dennis Seidenberg 23:20
Johnny Boychuk 20:43
Andrew Ference 18:01
Adam McQuaid 14:14
Aaron Johnson 13:54

All of our organizational depth graduated. Where's our organizational depth at C? You still haven't answered that question.

 

[NYR Viper]

This team lacks an identity. They have Richards and Gaborik as pure skilled players. Callahan, Stepan, Nash and Havelin are 2 way guys. Everyone else lacks sufficient skill or experience to bring much more than one side of the puck.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

This team lacks an identity. They have Richards and Gaborik as pure skilled players. Callahan, Stepan, Nash and Havelin are 2 way guys. Everyone else lacks sufficient skill or experience to bring much more than one side of the puck.

Richards has been far from skilled this year imo thats one of our biggest problems. Right now he looks like the Arod of the Rangers :/

 

[bernmeister]

Boyle and Gaborik need to be shopped. The team needs a transformation.

Boyle if the return is high enough. He's flawed but earning his keep.

Boyle + Thomas + small pick to Chicago for former first rounders D Dylan Olsen and C Mark McNeil, who should be competing as early as next year.

----------

Gaborik -- no sacred cows, have an open mind.
However, don't expect return to be better than Gabby's results.

It is not CERTAIN we could move him, and use the cap $$ more economically and get same level of sniper results.