Rumor: Trade Rumor/Speculation Thread XXVII: Viva la St.Louis! [Mod Warning post #1]

[AHB*]

Everyone here harps on the "elite" center mentality ... how many truly elite centers are there in the NHL? About a dozen at best.

We're harping on them because every team that wins the cup has one. Pretty easy to see it's incredibly important to being a successful franchise.

There are also likely more then 12.

Crosby
Malkin
Datsyuk
Kopitar
Toews
Tavares
Stamkos
Getzlaf
Giroux
Thornton
Sedin
E. Staal

Then there's that second tier (and all better then anyone on our roster are)

Bergeron
Backstrom
Seguin
Coutoure
Pavelski
Duchene
Kreicji
Stastny
Spezza
Nugent-Hopkins

Then there's the up and comers, some of which we should be targeting

Girgensons
Barkov
Mackinnon
Monahan
Scheifle
Strome
Forsberg
Grigorenko

Etc, Etc.

You don't need an uber elite, you need a LEGIT #1. No one is advocating for Crosby, we're saying we need a REAL first line center. Not a 1B, not a 2A, like Stepan. A full-blown guy that people know is an actual 1C

 

[GregSirico]

I'll just wait for Glen Sather to die because that is the next chance for a new Rangers GM to rebuild this flawed organization...

Rebuild? Seriously ... SERIOUSLY? You really think we are THAT far away from being a contender?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The problem is you need both. Trade Stepan and/or Kreider and you create a hole that can't currently be filled internally.

Can we end the myth of organizational depth now?

Not as long as theres names to list.

 

[GregSirico]

Oh not this again ... FFS.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Not as long as theres names to list.

Touché.

 

[AHB*]

The problem is you need both. Trade Stepan and/or Kreider and you create a hole that can't currently be filled internally.

Can we end the myth of organizational depth now?

Somewhat agree, but I think this team has decent center depth when it comes to the #2. Hypothetically speaking, say we can package Stepan for a young, #1 and that they develop properly. FOR EXAMPLE, I'll use Barkov.

I think we easily survive depth wise, if we have

Barkov
Brassard/Miller
Miller/Brassard

That's pretty good depth. Not saying Stepan isn't a very good piece, but I think if we were able to turn him into a legit, young #1 by adding nice pieces to him, our center depth would be pretty good.

But again, i'm much higher on Miller then most here. I truly think he'll be a good #2. And Brassards production is already on par with a #2. So basically we'd have a legit #1 and 2 #2's, which is on par with teams that win cups.

 

[Doctyl]

Wouldn't it seem like a better tactic to throw all your organizational time and resources towards finding the answer at center, then trading for/acquiring guys like Stepan and Kreider?

I would be pretty damn happy if we got another Stepan and Kreider

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I'd include Fast. He will be a very solid player, ala Lindberg, but i don't see him being that high end winger.

As long as we're keeping one of Skjei or Allen, I'm rather fine with it. I think they're both somewhat similar players and i think they'll both be successful NHL'rs. Although I think Skjei has the talent to be a star.

I loved how he played in the WJC this year.

Regardless, there are very few untouchables I'd have in regards to acquiring a center like that.

I think your misunderstood my post - I was saying that Fast was up there with Skjei in terms of whom I'd prefer to keep. To be clear, if there were ever actually an opportunity to get Barkov, I'd trade Stepan + any one of our prospects (including Duclair or Buchnevich, BTW) + more to get him.

The only question is what the "more" would be - and that would depend on the prospect.

(That's for Barkov though - he's in rarified air. If we were to discuss other guys, I might start taking certain prospects off the list.)

 

[Doctyl]

FLORIDA IS NOT TRADING BARKOV!

He is a stud #1 center who will become the face of that franchise in the near future. It would take a massive overpayment to pry him from them.

 

[AHB*]

I think your misunderstood my post - I was saying that Fast was up there with Skjei in terms of whom I'd prefer to keep. To be clear, if there were ever actually an opportunity to get Barkov, I'd trade Stepan + any one of our prospects (including Duclair or Buchnevich, BTW) + more to get him.

The only question is what the "more" would be - and that would depend on the prospect.

(That's for Barkov though - he's in rarified air. If we were to discuss other guys, I might start taking certain prospects off the list.)

Agreed, I like the Grigorenko idea though.

 

[AHB*]

FLORIDA IS NOT TRADING BARKOV!

He is a stud #1 center who will become the face of that franchise in the near future. It would take a massive overpayment to pry him from them.

Jesus, people around here really don't understand the "for example" concept, do they.

 

[AHB*]

Probably nothing, since he's playing but:

Craig Button ‏@CraigJButton 13m

At Heritage Game introductions Ryan Kesler only Vancouver player not introduced in starting lineups. #ForgottenNotGone

 

[GregSirico]

You don't need an uber elite, you need a LEGIT #1. No one is advocating for Crosby, we're saying we need a REAL first line center. Not a 1B, not a 2A, like Stepan. A full-blown guy that people know is an actual 1C

How do you propose we acquire a 1C while maintaining the integrity of the talent pool we have (without subtracting from it that takes us backwards - we aren't exactly an offensive power house)?

 

[Trxjw]

Um, when did Philip Forsberg become a #1C in the making? The guy doesn't even play center.

 

[Doctyl]

Jesus, people around here really don't understand the "for example" concept, do they.

No one is going to trade a player of that caliber when he's a teenager. It is pretty pointless to even suggest this. We would have to gut our entire franchise to get someone like Barkov

 

[GregSirico]

FLORIDA IS NOT TRADING BARKOV!

He is a stud #1 center who will become the face of that franchise in the near future. It would take a massive overpayment to pry him from them.

As with ANY of these elite young forwards ... there is no REASON to trade developing stars.

 

[AHB*]

Um, when did Philip Forsberg become a #1C in the making? The guy doesn't even play center.

I was using him as an example of a young, top prospect that got traded and it got skewed into a debate.

How do you propose we acquire a 1C while maintaining the integrity of the talent pool we have (without subtracting from it that takes us backwards - we aren't exactly an offensive power house)?

I, and others, have already done that in this thread. I'm not going through it agian.

 

[Trojanman03]

I think it's more like 15 ... but point is not everyone has an elite center ... also it depends on what your definition of "elite" is.

nvm beaten to it by AHB lol

 

[Trxjw]

I was using him as an example of a young, top prospect that got traded and it got skewed into a debate.

You have in your "up and coming" tier of centers about 5 posts up the page.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

As with ANY of these elite young forwards ... there is no REASON to trade developing stars.

And, if you're the Rangers, theres seemingly no reason to cultivate them

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

à might get killed for this.. but why is Bergeron considered "elite"? He's had 2 seasons where he's hit 70 points.. other than that he's been around 50-60 or less.. I understand he raised his game in the playoffs twice, but thats a small sample size.. The guy is making 6.5M and this season has 39 points .. how is that elite?

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

Rebuild? Seriously ... SERIOUSLY? You really think we are THAT far away from being a contender?

yes well take a look at it like this:

look at the teams that won the cup Hawks Penguins Kings Bruins. all have 2 or 3 legit offensive threats that they have drafted themselves and not signed as an UFA or part of a trade...

Kings Kopitar Doughty Voynov
Hawks Kane Toews
Bruins Bergeron Lucic Krejci
Penguins Malkin Staal Crosby (when they won in 09)

see the trend. all drafted by the team that they have won with..

Rangers should be able to draft like this..

Bergeron Lucic Krejci were not 1st round picks so it is possible to find these type in the 2ed or 3rd rounds.. Rangers need a lesson on how to scout...

 

[Gardner McKay]

I was using him as an example of a young, top prospect that got traded and it got skewed into a debate.



I, and others, have already done that in this thread. I'm not going through it agian.

No you haven't. You talked about mortgaging half the team for a player who has 24 points that Florida won't even trade.

 

[Doctyl]

à might get killed for this.. but why is Bergeron considered "elite"? He's had 2 seasons where he's hit 70 points.. other than that he's been around 50-60 or less.. I understand he raised his game in the playoffs twice, but thats a small sample size.. The guy is making 6.5M and this season has 39 points .. how is that elite?

I might get killed for this but why can't Stepan become a Bergeron like player?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

à might get killed for this.. but why is Bergeron considered "elite"? He's had 2 seasons where he's hit 70 points.. other than that he's been around 50-60 or less.. I understand he raised his game in the playoffs twice, but thats a small sample size.. The guy is making 6.5M and this season has 39 points .. how is that elite?

Hes borderline for me, because hes so good defensively.

Boston would have some issues if they didnt have another very very good center behind him in Krejci.