Rumor: Trade Rumor/Speculation Thread XXVII: Viva la St.Louis! [Mod Warning post #1]

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

The Rangers already had a chance last season to flip Stepan + for an upgrade. do we remember Ryan O reilly?..The Rangers passed

 

[haveandare]

I'm sorry but Forsberg is not on that level. The Panthers just drafted Barkov ahead of names like Drouin and Jones. They REALLY like him.

People talk about MSL because it's very realistic and it makes the team better in the immediate future.

Exactly. He's a player that is elite right now and can be had at a discount in the near future. Without the NMC, the trade demand, and the desire to be a Ranger, I wouldn't want much to do with MSL, but all those things exist, and trying to get him in the situation where all of that collides is just a smart move in my opinion.

That said, I don't think it's a bad idea to brain storm some ways to get a 1C, but Barkov is likely about as untouchable as anybody on any team.

I think the most realistic way to go about getting a possible 1C for this franchise is to draft high risk/reward centers more often, and/or to look at other teams young centers to search for anyone who is outperforming what was expected of them, but not at such a high level that they're untouchable. We have Duclair doing that for us right now, for example. A team could get him now plausibly, but if he keeps building on this season, in a year or two, he'll be damn near impossible to trade for. Again, a big "if", but teams don't trade young center prospects without "if"s around them. Forsberg is probably a little further along than that. I suspect he'd require a pretty hefty package.

 

[Gardner McKay]

No, because neither is going to turn into a #1 Center, which has held this team back for two decades. But i figured at least one person would pop up to defend them.

This team needs a #1C. Without them, we're not going anywhere. And to get one, you need to trade guys who are quality.



11th Overall. He's going to be a fantastic player. He was elite in the WJC this year.

Going to be. Perfect type of player to get when you are rebuilding. That doesn't help us now. It amazes me how people can be so short sighted. What good will these trades do us when Lundqvist is 36/37 and may not playing at this level any more?

Barkov has 24 points in 54 games. Not terrible, but we need someone now. What if he only tops out as a 60 point guy? That is a lot to give up. Before any one says he's going to be a star, I remember how many fans here talked about Burmistrov and how he was going to be a sure fire 70-75 point center. Burmistrov sucked.

Florida has Z E R O reason to trade Barkov. Therefore they are going to want even more for him in a trade. Outside the box is one thing. Barkov is just unrealistic.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

We're talking about guys like Forsberg for being elite in the WJC.

Remember when Stepan was an elite player when he played there?

Stepan has produced at a .75 PPG pace in his last 109 games, this season and last season. That's 60 points over 82 games. 23 year olds (albeit 24 in 3 months) who do that are pretty ****ing good, especially when they play the defensive game he does against the players he does.

He's not Johnny Toews and probably will never be, but it's too soon to assume Step can't be Patrice Bergeron. I'm not moving him unless for a GUARANTEED upgrade. I'm all for getting creative, but I think moving Steps isn't the right answer for a gamble at a 1C.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I can't. I don't know who is available. But it would be refreshing to see something that's not predictable.

It doesn't matter. Hasn't stopped any one else from coming up with ideas. You criticize some of us for only going off of scenarios (of what we know is available) talking about Stastny etc. as the same old. Yet you can't give me an example of something that is "refreshing"?

We're talking about guys like Forsberg for being elite in the WJC.

Remember when Stepan was an elite player when he played there?

Stepan has produced at a .75 PPG pace in his last 109 games, this season and last season. That's 60 points over 82 games. 23 year olds (albeit 24 in 3 months) who do that are pretty ****ing good, especially when they play the defensive game he does against the players he does.

He's not Johnny Toews and probably will never be, but it's too soon to assume Step can't be Patrice Bergeron. I'm not moving him unless for a GUARANTEED upgrade. I'm all for getting creative, but I think moving Steps isn't the right answer for a gamble at a 1C.

You realize you are going to be burned at the stake for saying something like that? I absolutely agree with you though.

 

[Clown Fiesta]

We're talking about guys like Forsberg for being elite in the WJC.

Remember when Stepan was an elite player when he played there?

Did it happen in the last 3 months? If not than no, our memories rarely extend beyond a calendar year.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I get what they are saying though, trying to make a ballsy trade for a top center could do more for this franchise than signing Stastny, but most of those guys wouldn't even be available.

 

[aufheben]

Guys, Forsberg was just an example. Stastny and/or MSL are classic Sather moves. If us posters could figure out how to get a #1C, we'd be GMs and not forum users. Virtually everyone is available for the right price.

 

[cd211]

Did it happen in the last 3 months? If not than no, our memories rarely extend beyond a calendar year.

you mean a day?

stepan could have a hatrick tonight and all will be forgotten..

stepan is a great player.. dudes got the hockey IQ, may be spotty of late with points but hes a keeper and a guy i dont move..

some of you guys live in the past and always think the grass is always greener..

also guys like barkov, drouin, these guys arent going to be available.. lets be real now..

Panthers are rebuilding and arent going to move a dude who was just a top 5 pick in 2013...

we should keep what we got.. or make a play for kesler.. other then that.. keep stepan brass miller and just grow as a team..

 

[AHB*]

Going to be. Perfect type of player to get when you are rebuilding. That doesn't help us now. It amazes me how people can be so short sighted. What good will these trades do us when Lundqvist is 36/37 and may not playing at this level any more?

Barkov has 24 points in 54 games. Not terrible, but we need someone now. What if he only tops out as a 60 point guy? That is a lot to give up. Before any one says he's going to be a star, I remember how many fans here talked about Burmistrov and how he was going to be a sure fire 70-75 point center. Burmistrov sucked.

Florida has Z E R O reason to trade Barkov. Therefore they are going to want even more for him in a trade. Outside the box is one thing. Barkov is just unrealistic.

I don't understand how you are calling me short sighted when you are the one advocating trading for a near 39 year old.

That's the definition of ironic.

And Burmistrov didn't suck. He was mishandled. He just turned 22 and you're acting like he's a 40 year old told you so.

And I WASN"T SAYING TRADE FORSBERG FOR STEPAN.

You literally can't say anything here without people putting words in your mouth. The guy was an example. How many posts do i need to put that into for someone to actually read it.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

Guys, Forsberg was just an example. Stastny and/or MSL are classic Sather moves. If us posters could figure out how to get a #1C, we'd be GMs and not forum users. Virtually everyone is available for the right price.

I understand, and don't want Stastny either. I think the vitriol against getting MSL is kinda strange, though.

If it comes down to trading Cally for anything less than a #1 pick/top 6 prospect or MSL, i'm taking MSL any day of the week.

The Rangers have played some really good hockey over the past two months so I guess I might have my homer shades on, but I don't think replacing Stepan with anything less than a proven PPG center who plays a two-way game will make us contenders over Bruins or Pitts. I think we should be getting MORE creative and trying to get a 40 point d-man, etc.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

It doesn't matter. Hasn't stopped any one else from coming up with ideas. You criticize some of us for only going off of scenarios (of what we know is available) talking about Stastny etc. as the same old. Yet you can't give me an example of something that is "refreshing"?

I've "criticized" people for offering predictable scenarios? Not sure that's true. I'm longing for the front office to do more than just buy the biggest name on the free agent. Find talent in other organizations where you see something a player that maybe that team doesn't. Find diamonds in the rough of other teams.

Let's be honest, it's sad that this board probably is pretty accurate as to what will occur this summer. Richards will go and Sather will turn around and give that money to Stastny. Or Moulson. Or Vanek.

But wouldn't it be nice to have a GM who actually had some fire to do his job rather than by the next Richards, Gomez, Drury or Redden?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The Rangers already had a chance last season to flip Stepan + for an upgrade. do we remember Ryan O reilly?..The Rangers passed

Sounds like a rumor thats being put forth as gospel.

People want answers, even when the proposals aren't right answers, at least its something and they get latched onto.

All I can say is this - if my only choice in the offseason is Stastny at $7M+ per year, I gladly go into the season with

Stepan
Brassard
Miller
Moore/Boyle

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

Anyone else think if we do sign cally he'll go all out the next game and games after that...cuz right now I don't think he's going full out

 

[AHB*]

Lol, trade the farm for Kesler and MSL, but I'm the crazy one who doesn't is "what have you done for me lately."

Ok, I'm short-sighted. I'll bump this in 5 years when we've had a plethora of first and second round exits with Stastny as our #1C and MSL long been retired.

Sather, Rinse, Repeat. Young prospects for old geezers and oft-injured players, past their effective primes. I guess it's easier to accept defeat then advocate for change.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

We're not getting Florida's top prospects for our top prospects without some kind of massive change of circumstance. Maybe Kreider scores 15 goals in his first 20 games next year. Maybe Barkov gets hurt again. Without that, they're way too far apart and quantity from the Rangers doesn't mean anything for them. Obviously it's not just Barkov, but the kind of guy who is playing well in the NHL at 18 stays put.

Guys like Forsberg and Grigorenko - great guys to have, great prospects, worth a hell of a lot more than Marty Erat, but they're more likely to develop into Stastnies/Stepans/Brassards than superstars. Kyle Turris was a very high pick and a great bargain for Ottawa when he begged out of the desert. He's a very good player and he's still developing. If something like that happens I want us to pull the trigger on the guy. I still don't think Kyle Turris changes the game here, maybe I'm wrong.

I think all of this discussion is important in demonstrating how far away we are from that kind of player (and for me, how little sense it makes to turn down ~three years of MSL for prospect goop if that is actually an option)

 

[AHB*]

I've "criticized" people for offering predictable scenarios? Not sure that's true. I'm longing for the front office to do more than just buy the biggest name on the free agent. Find talent in other organizations where you see something a player that maybe that team doesn't. Find diamonds in the rough of other teams.

Let's be honest, it's sad that this board probably is pretty accurate as to what will occur this summer. Richards will go and Sather will turn around and give that money to Stastny. Or Moulson. Or Vanek.

But wouldn't it be nice to have a GM who actually had some fire to do his job rather than by the next Richards, Gomez, Drury or Redden?

Don't you know, Stastny, Kesler or MSL are going to change that! Just like Lindros and Fleury, Holik, Bure, etc etc etc.

I just can't believe how many times people can be duped by the same brainless moves for over the hill stars, yet they STILL want to continue doing it. You'd think after 14 years people would catch on.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Don't you know, Stastny, Kesler or MSL are going to change that! Just like Lindros and Fleury, Holik, Bure, etc etc etc.

I just can't believe how many times people can be duped by the same brainless moves for over the hill stars, yet they STILL want to continue doing it. You'd think after 14 years people would catch on.

Too be fair most of those older stars that we brought in had signs of slowing down before we even got them. MSL really has not shown that. Kesler on the other hand has.

 

[AHB*]

We're not getting Florida's top prospects for our top prospects without some kind of massive change of circumstance. Maybe Kreider scores 15 goals in his first 20 games next year. Maybe Barkov gets hurt again. Without that, they're way too far apart and quantity from the Rangers doesn't mean anything for them. Obviously it's not just Barkov, but the kind of guy who is playing well in the NHL at 18 stays put.

Guys like Forsberg and Grigorenko - great guys to have, great prospects, worth a hell of a lot more than Marty Erat, but they're more likely to develop into Stastnies/Stepans/Brassards than superstars. Kyle Turris was a very high pick and a great bargain for Ottawa when he begged out of the desert. He's a very good player and he's still developing. If something like that happens I want us to pull the trigger on the guy. I still don't think Kyle Turris changes the game here, maybe I'm wrong.

I think all of this discussion is important in demonstrating how far away we are from that kind of player (and for me, how little sense it makes to turn down ~three years of MSL for prospect goop)

These guys were examples. There are players that project to be better then Stepan, Brassard, etc, that we could go after with packages built around Stepan and Kreider.

That's not to knock either of those guys as players. I think they're fantastic and happy we could develop them. But we need to think on a grander scheme here. We have a lot of nice pieces, but we need that shrewd move to put us over the top. Acquiring a guy who has a realistic shot at being a #1C, regardless of price, outside of McD and Hank, should be a primary focus.

The simple answer is to throw money at guys and we've been doing that since Sather took over. It's time to change the game plan. In fact, it's way past due.

 

[stan the caddy]

Guys, Forsberg was just an example. Stastny and/or MSL are classic Sather moves. If us posters could figure out how to get a #1C, we'd be GMs and not forum users. Virtually everyone is available for the right price.

They're classic anybody moves because they make sense. MSL is still playing at a high level and wants to be here and Stastny is probably the best center in FA. As the GM there are only so many options. We're not talking overpaying Redden here.

FWIW I wouldn't want Stastny either but it could be worse. I have a feeling he'll keep Brad around.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Guys, Forsberg was just an example. Stastny and/or MSL are classic Sather moves. If us posters could figure out how to get a #1C, we'd be GMs and not forum users. Virtually everyone is available for the right price.

I agree with you that it is a classic move. That may be because the other options are not viable. How often do you see kids like Barkov traded? Seguin? Sure. Before that? Thornton? It doesn't happen often. If it was that easy, every GM would be doing it.

It doesn't happen for two reasons. A. There is a risk involved. There is no "sure thing". B. Costs too much. If the risk doesn't pan out then one team just gave up a lot of assets for nothing

As a person who frequents casinos I can always appreciate a bold move paying off. It is what keeps casinos in business. I would be all for a move like this if we were a gutter or non playoff team. I just do not see how trading key pieces for a kid who has 8 goals on the year while we are 2nd in our division is the right move to make at the moment. It would sure has hell be bold. I don't think it is the right decision.

The entire reason I would be for signing Stastny would be it would allow us to trade Stepan or Brassard for additional assets. If that trade doesn't work out, well we still have our top 3 centers. Stastny-Brass/Step-Miller. If we trade Stepan ++ for Barkov without signing Stastny and for some reason Barkov doesn't become that #1C, then we are up a river of excrement without means of propulsion.

 

[OverTheCap]

Its' refreshing to see some outside the box proposals for first line centers as opposed to the usual discussions like debating Cally for the millionth time. Those who don't like these ideas needn't worry though - I am sure Sather will do something typical like sign Stastny. Sigh.

 

[AHB*]

Too be fair most of those older stars that we brought in had signs of slowing down before we even got them. MSL really has not shown that. Kesler on the other hand has.

He's turning 39 in a few months. He is bound to slow down soon. We're lucky if we squeeze 2 good seasons out of the guy.

I don't think this team is one piece away from the cup. If i did, I'd agree that we should bring him in.

We may be one piece away in the sense of Crosby, Malkin or Kopitar, but not a winger.

 

[cd211]

Lol, trade the farm for Kesler and MSL, but I'm the crazy one who doesn't is "what have you done for me lately."

Ok, I'm short-sighted. I'll bump this in 5 years when we've had a plethora of first and second round exits with Stastny as our #1C and MSL long been retired.

Sather, Rinse, Repeat. Young prospects for old geezers and oft-injured players, past their effective primes. I guess it's easier to accept defeat then advocate for change.

**** MSL, and hes one my favorite players all time too..

cally straight up for MSL FINE..

but if we want to address issues up front then get kesler.. thats actually a trade worth doing.. not saying give up the farm but hes the center we need and lack and would do wonders for Stepan

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

They're classic anybody moves because they make sense. MSL is still playing at a high level and wants to be here and Stastny is probably the best center in FA. As the GM there are only so many options. We're not talking overpaying Redden here.

FWIW I wouldn't want Stastny either but it could be worse. I have a feeling he'll keep Brad around.

They make sense when you panic, sure.

The bolded is refreshing.