Rumor: Trade Rumor/Speculation Thread XXVI: G Staying Put.

[Hunter Gathers]

Ok, all of you guys *****ing about centers, what's your solution? Sell off any and all of our assets until (if) we got one for prospects and picks? Rebuild and hope we get a #1 center in the draft? What's the solution?

The solution to getting a number one center is acquiring a number one center. We need to get one.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

When did Yzerman say this?

 

[GregSirico]

Who's the Kings prototypical 1C? Kopitar with 76 points in 82 games? Or Richards with 44 in 74 games? Beating a Devils team with no business being there.

How about Boston's cup run? Krejci with a whopping 62 points in 75 games or Bergeron with 57 pts. in 80 games?

Our own Brad Richards is on pace for both of those Boston guys, FYI.

Sure, Bergeron is a great, GREAT two way player. But let's keep this "elite 1C to win" crap in perspective. You don't need Sydney Crosby to win (he's won once). You need a TEAM to win. Like every other sport.

POST OF THE NIGHT

 

[AHB*]

Who's the Kings prototypical 1C? Kopitar with 76 points in 82 games? Or Richards with 44 in 74 games? Beating a Devils team with no business being there.

How about Boston's cup run? Krejci with a whopping 62 points in 75 games or Bergeron with 57 pts. in 80 games?

Our own Brad Richards is on pace for both of those Boston guys, FYI.

Sure, Bergeron is a great, GREAT two way player. But let's keep this "elite 1C to win" crap in perspective. You don't need Sydney Crosby to win (he's won once). You need a TEAM to win. Like every other sport.

Um, there are other elite C's besides Sidney Crosby. Points are not everything. Mike Richards had a down year, as did Jeff Carter. Anze Kopitar is one of the best players in the NHL. Far better then ANY player on the Rangers roster.

I hate using lines like this, but if you don't respect these guys then you just don't watch them enough.

I think multiple examples of teams winning Cups without elite centers has been posted in this thread already.

That's your opinion. I think goaltending is the most important. A hot goaltender can carry a non-elite team to a championship.

Really, have there been any since the lockout? You can't look back to the trap era. That's practically a different sport. Anaheim had Getzlaf, he is elite. Boston had Kreijci and Bergeron, both better then any Rangers center today and arguably both #1's with Bergeron being an elite #1. Also, elite playoff performers.

You're right, a hot goaltender can carry a team to a championship. Thing is, mediocre goaltenders go on hot runs, quite often. Crawford did, yet i don't consider him elite. Fleury did, yet i don't consider him elite. Hell, I don't think Carey price is consistent enough to be up there in the top 5 and he was nearly unbeatable in Sochi.

It was said above, you need a team to win. You need center depth to win. We don't have enough high end talent in our centers to get away with that over a 7 game series.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The solution to getting a number one center is acquiring a number one center. We need to get one.

You mean to pick one off the number one center tree?

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

And the Kings added a YOUNG asset in Jeff Carter, they didn't trade for a 38 year old. They developed Jack Johnson for 6 years and traded him for a player that will continue to be around for another 10. No one is saying to decline our playoff bid or anything, but the Kings made a smart long term move that paid off in the short term as well. It doesn't have to be an either or decision.

Exactly.

Foresight. A plan.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

That is the correct answer. Balance your scoring up front, play strong defense as this team does, and let Henke do his job. Again, I'll take my chances with this lineup, with MSL added at the right price.

Agreed. The strength of this team is in it's blueline, goaltending, and forward depth. Add MSL for Callahan and we keep our depth while adding an elite player. We would have a dynamic offensive presence on three lines in Nash, MSL, and Zuccarello. Plus, the PP would be nasty.

 

[aufheben]

Ok, were you confident Broten? Seriously. For one bring up stats and for the other skill. If you brought up skill for Broten, you'd have a poor argument. If you brought up points for Brassard, you'd have a poor argument. So you managed to rig this argument so you can win.

There's nothing for me to win. Look at every team that's won a Cup. I'll even say that the 1995 Devils and the 2007 Ducks had no #1C, for the sake of argument, they BOTH had not 1 but 2 HOF defensemen.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

The solution to getting a number one center is acquiring a number one center. We need to get one.

LOL. Reminds me of John Madden's, "you have to score more points than the other team to win" line.

 

[jskramer83]

I understand people wanting young assets in return for Callahan. But we have to be realistic, no team is giving up a young asset for Callahan, at least not one with a lot of potential.

Just look at how quickly we are to turn down a trade involving a prospect like Jesper Fast, who likely isn't even a top 100 prospectl, for a top 20 player in the nhl.

If we aren't willing to give up a prospect like that for a player like MSL, what in the world makes anyone think that some other team will give up better young assets for Ryan Callahan?

 

[GregSirico]

But that's my point, that package won't get it done. If it would, it would've happened when Boomer tweeted it.

Yzerman already said he won't do it for Callahan, certainly not for Callahan and spare parts. Why would they? Would you if you were Yzerman? They are in the playoff race as well, why wouldn't they give themselves their best chance? To make Rangers fans happy?

Depends how hard MSL pushes ... I am not a psychic nor do I work for TB so I don't know.

 

[Captain Monglobster]

I would be pretty pissed if a 1st round pick was involved in a trade for another 30+, in this case 35+ player. I don't care how good he is right now, St Louis is almost 40 years old.

MSL does not make this team a contender, this team is so far from being a legit Cup contender it will take more than 1 player. Not to mention the team will once again get smaller instead of bigger and tougher. MSL is a tough customer, but hes still the height of mighty mouse.

 

[Ghost of jas]

There's nothing for me to win. Look at every team that's won a Cup. I'll even say that the 1995 Devils and the 2007 Ducks had no #1C, for the sake of argument, they BOTH had not 1 but 2 HOF defensemen.

And this team has a potential HOF goalie, and, if you acquire MSL, a HOF forward.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I brought up Broten as an example of a team that won without the classic elite #1 center.

I know, I was posting about aurheben's reply to you and me.

 

[NYR Viper]

I understand people wanting young assets in return for Callahan. But we have to be realistic, no team is giving up a young asset for Callahan, at least not one with a lot of potential.

Just look at how quickly we are to turn down a trade involving a prospect like Jesper Fast, who likely isn't even a top 100 prospectl, for a top 20 player in the nhl.

If we aren't willing to give up a prospect like that for a player like MSL, what in the world makes anyone think that some other team will give up better young assets for Ryan Callahan?

The Miller/Ott trade is a good example of that.

 

[AHB*]

POST OF THE NIGHT

Post of the night? How's that. Because he uses guys who undeperformed.

Do people here really not understand that every center listed in that paragraph is better then almost any offensive player on the Rangers roster.

Anze Kopitar is one of the best centers in the NHL. As is Bergeron. These guys are not only pretty good point producers (better then Stepan, easily) they are also amazing defensively. Arguably better defensively then they are offensively.

Stepan shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as them. And Brad Richards, BAHAHAH. I love how playing with his buddy from a decade ago is going to make him the second coming of Crosby.

 

[aufheben]

If our best center in the playoffs goes PPG you wouldn't be okay with it?

No, I would not like Brassard to be Jesus while Beaver chucks wood and Stepan stares at his skates.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

And the Kings added a YOUNG asset in Jeff Carter, they didn't trade for a 38 year old. They developed Jack Johnson for 6 years and traded him for a player that will continue to be around for another 10. No one is saying to decline our playoff bid or anything, but the Kings made a smart long term move that paid off in the short term as well. It doesn't have to be an either or decision.

I'd love it if we were able to do something like that. I'd love it if a team traded for a great young center and started out this season 2-18 or whatever it was. If that happened, we might be able to get him for below his actual value.

It would also be great if a team's star winger wanted out because of personality conflicts with management, but there was only one place he was willing to waive his no-trade clause for and it was us. That would be great, because we would be getting a useful player below his actual value.

You have to react to circumstances. LA wouldn't have traded for Jeff Carter if they were committed to a one-dimensional plan of trudging ahead with the young core of their team, which JJ was a part of. We won't get MSL if we only want to get younger instead of better. Both are mistakes and both are reflective of inflexible thinking, which is a killer both in the hockey management world and in the real business world.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

Who's the Kings prototypical 1C? Kopitar with 76 points in 82 games? Or Richards with 44 in 74 games? Beating a Devils team with no business being there.

How about Boston's cup run? Krejci with a whopping 62 points in 75 games or Bergeron with 57 pts. in 80 games?

Our own Brad Richards is on pace for both of those Boston guys, FYI.

Sure, Bergeron is a great, GREAT two way player. But let's keep this "elite 1C to win" crap in perspective. You don't need Sydney Crosby to win (he's won once). You need a TEAM to win. Like every other sport.

Kopitar and Richards are better than any center we currently have.

Bergeron and Krejci are better than any center we currently havem

I guess multiple Stanley Cup Finals appearances, Cup winners, be damned. Our group of smallish and slowish centers trump them...

 

[Todd Harvey]

Was tied up all day but real happy (and relieved) when I heard the news about Girardi. Could've been a disaster if he either went FA or we made a lousy trade; now there's a guy who deserved it;
on balance, he's been awesome for us;
he probably cost himself some money - maybe quite a bit more than some - which shows how much he wanted to stay. Nice.

amazing how low key the reaction is (though most almost everyone is happy what ive seen & heard' maybe they were just exhaling too LOL); fitting for Girardi;

and so there was a nice juicy deal that went down;
Im sure someone here pointed out Stewart going robbed us of a decent trade option; oh well....

and depending who/what you believe from the grapevine,
NYR-Cally with late talks that could prove fruitful.
Heard 6/36, which I would not want to see happen.
Think it' be anti-climactic at this point.
I tend to doubt the whole thing, truth be told; but ya never know.

 

[aufheben]

The solution to getting a number one center is acquiring a number one center. We need to get one.

Don't be a bummer Jon.

 

[DudMan28]

As opposed to 30 games of Callahan? Sold.

I wasn't trying to imply that I dont want to trade Callahan. I am all for it. My mistake. Im just not thrilled by the return everyone is jumping all over. If were going to trade Cally, i would much rather go for a legit 1c prospect somehow. If we dont, were going to be sitting here in a few years saying the same things. No 1c, no PMD, etc. etc.

 

[AHB*]

Also, I'm not against trading for MSL if the price is cheap, but if we trade any good prospect for him or a 1st, i will lose it. It is highly unlikely we win a cup this year with the team as constructed. Regardless of our regular season play, there are far to many holes on this roster.

Stepan will hopefully improve and it would be nice to keep Brass as a #3. We need a good #1 though.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

When M Richards and especially Bergeron aren't scoring they are doing lots of other things that contribute to winning hockey in the playoffs.

Stepan and Brad Richards right now...not so much. Not to mention if Brassard finds one of his funks. I am actually floored there is any confusion or debate on this.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Um, there are other elite C's besides Sidney Crosby. Points are not everything. Mike Richards had a down year, as did Jeff Carter. Anze Kopitar is one of the best players in the NHL. Far better then ANY player on the Rangers roster.

I hate using lines like this, but if you don't respect these guys then you just don't watch them enough.



Really, have there been any since the lockout? You can't look back to the trap era. That's practically a different sport. Anaheim had Getzlaf, he is elite. Boston had Kreijci and Bergeron, both better then any Rangers center today and arguably both #1's with Bergeron being an elite #1. Also, elite playoff performers.

You're right, a hot goaltender can carry a team to a championship. Thing is, mediocre goaltenders go on hot runs, quite often. Crawford did, yet i don't consider him elite. Fleury did, yet i don't consider him elite. Hell, I don't think Carey price is consistent enough to be up there in the top 5 and he was nearly unbeatable in Sochi.

It was said above, you need a team to win. You need center depth to win. We don't have enough high end talent in our centers to get away with that over a 7 game series.

I just think when you throw words like "elite" around, and then say Bergeron is elite, then your definition of elite includes a lot of players.

A player being better than any player on the Rangers does not make them elite. You said you can't win a cup without an elite center. Then you make an argument that really, really good players are elite players.

Again: Crosby, Tavares, Toews, Getzlaf. Bergeron is not as good as them. He is not elite, in my opinion. Neither is Krejci. They both performed very well in the playoffs and Boston won the Cup.

Our C is depth is better than you think. We just lack a top end talent. We have 3 very good Cs, and a terrific fourth line center.