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Speculation: Trade Rumor/Speculation Thread XXII: St Louis vs St Louis

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AHB said:
But Dubi and Nash aren't comparables. They play completely different roles. It's who we'd have in Nash's spot, if he were not here, that is the question.
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Good question. Those players become available less and less in this NHL. Teams just dont let guys like that get to free agency

until they are older or play on a ****** team and the guy holds out.

Kane Towes Crosby Malkin AO Tavares are never going to hit the market or be traded to the NY Rangers
 
aufheben said:
That's happening anyway. :laugh:
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I get your point but Nash+MZA is a whole lot better than just MZA.

People talk about undoing the Nash trade and they forget the most important variable, they forget that we had a 40 goal scorer in Gaborik who's play has completely deteriorated. Undoing the Nash trade doesn't bring Gaborik back to his old form.
 
stan the caddy said:
I get your point but Nash+MZA is a whole lot better than just MZA.

People talk about undoing the Nash trade and they forget the most important variable, they forget that we had a 40 goal scorer in Gaborik who's play has completely deteriorated. Undoing the Nash trade doesn't bring Gaborik back to his old form.
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Oh I wasn't making a point, just thought it was funny.
 
White Plains Batman said:
I'd honestly stop going to games. I went to less and less games during the early 2000s because I didn't support the product.

It's not going to happen though. Gordie Clark and Jeff Gorton would veto that nonsense.
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Only on this website will a a fan's devotion to the team be tested by trading dime a dozen prospects for the reigning Art Ross Trophy winner.

Dime a dozen might be a bit harsh, but you know the gist of it.
 
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This team isn't a true contender until they develop some true offensive talent or have four lines they can roll without problem.

11-12 had the later (well, and only five trust worthy DMen) but not enough offense.

This team the offense is streaky. Sure Pouliot and Brassard can win a series by themselves, but they can also go cold for a month as well. No one trade is going to fix it this season, so acquire depth. Good young and cheap assets.

One of these days this team needs to hit a home run drafting. The drafting has gotten much better since Renney/Maloney, but they need a Fast, Duclair, or Buchnevich to be that x-factor.

I just don't trust Rick Nash to be that guy. Brad Richards is too old to be that guy.
 
Mint said:
Which dmen are comparable to McIlrath, out of curiosity.
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Not comparable with the way they play. I meant with the time frame it'd take them to reach the NHL and stick there. Pronger and Chara were mentioned as D-men who were late bloomers. Tons of NHL D-men establish themselves at the age of 23-24.
 
AHB said:
Personally, I don't think a team with Rick Nash as your premier offensive player gets you near a cup.

But Dubi and Nash aren't comparables. They play completely different roles. It's who we'd have in Nash's spot, if he were not here, that is the question.

Honestly, it's all moot. This isn't a topic i wanted to discuss. I made a quick statement about this team being "gutted" and it blew up into something i didn't intend it to be.

My point the entire time is that I don't think you trade away more, young depth in Miller, Fast, McIlrath, etc for an aging vet, when we just did that for Nash.

We need to build around what is here. There are some good pieces, for sure. Partially gutting this team again for a guy like MSL isn't how a team is built.
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In what world is Nash an aging vet? He's in the prime of his career. Players like that don't become available often in the prime of their career. You get them if you have a chance. If it doesn't work out and ends up being a mistake, it's very easy to retrospectively criticize the deal. I do that trade 10 times out of 10 and I love Dubinsky and Anisimov. The bottom line is you get Rick Nash. You can replace Dubinsky and Anisimov.

I don't know why you even root for the team. You clearly don't like our best player. Every post from you is negative. You say you've seen management make mistakes time and time again. You claim to have the solution, and that solution is to what? Trade Callahan prior to a playoff run for futures? Guys who may never make the NHL? Call up a bunch of B and C prospects? I don't understand.

Trading Callahan is not a popular move. Sather should have handled this differently. Great. We are where we are. Martin St. Louis is the reigning Art Ross trophy winner and is 12th in the NHL in points without Stamkos for a good portion of the season. He is an offensive difference maker. If we acquire him, we roll out one of the deepest forward groups in the Eastern Conference. On top of that, we have one of the league's best defenseman, backed by a pretty solid group. And, the best goalie in the world, or at least one of the best. We would have as good a shot as any team in the East to reach the Finals.

But then, the "we will get killed by Anaheim, Chicago, etc." sets in. You gotta be in it to win it. Granted, if I can get a Top 15 pick and an A prospect for Callahan, I would take that package over St. Louis. But if you're talking 28th overall pick, a 3rd liner and a B prospect, I'll take St. Louis all day.

Sather has made terrific trades. Acquiring Moore in the Gaborik deal was a coup, IMO. Acquiring Nash for Dubs/Anisimov/Erixon/1st was also a coup. Regardless of how it has turned out, at the time, it was a coup. You can't judge everything in hindsight. Sather's flaw is FA and how he handles internal contracts. Not trades. People who disagree with you or any other poster aren't "foolish," we just value winning the Stanley Cup. We want to make a run for it. Any team in the playoffs has a chance to win the Cup, it doesn't matter if you've been #1 in the league all year or you squeak in as an 8 seed. Stop writing off this team, go root for a "true contender," or whatever the hell that means. Richards-Hagelin-St. Louis, Nash-Stepan-Kreider, Pouliot-Brassard-Zuccarello, Carcillo-Boyle-Dorsett-Moore is one of the deepest forward groups in the league. How the hell can that not excite you? Some of these returns for Callahan are ludicrous. You're looking at something like 2 2nds and a 3rd vs. the reigning Art Ross winner. I don't get it.
 
All the hate Rick Nash gets on here is comical. Some people just trash him. If he goes on a hot streak like he has already done and nets 11 in 11 playoff games people would be going insane.. I bet he plays well this playoffs. With that said I do believe this team is 1 other scorer away from being true contenders but once your in, hey ya never know
 
McIlrath is yet to turn 22 and has missed bit of time too delaying his development. He needs to be given another couple years before people starting applying the bust label.
 
TheKing30 said:
All the hate Rick Nash gets on here is comical. Some people just trash him. If he goes on a hot streak like he has already done and nets 11 in 11 playoff games people would be going insane.. I bet he plays well this playoffs. With that said I do believe this team is 1 other scorer away from being true contenders but once your in, hey ya never know
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No no, that will never happen. This team isn't a "true contender." We'll get bounced in the first round. Check back in September, rinse, repeat. :shakehead.

I agree with you. Fans will love him if he scores a few playoff goals.
 
darko said:
McIlrath is yet to turn 22 and has missed bit of time too delaying his development. He needs to be given another couple years before people starting applying the bust label.
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McIlrath has gotten a raw deal because of the players drafted around him.

McIlrath at 10.

12. Fowler
14. Schwartz
16. Tarasenko

Kuznetsov. Etem.
 
stan the caddy said:
A major reason why the team stunk was because Gaborik's play completely fell off a cliff.

If they hadn't traded for Nash we'd be sitting here talking about MZA being our best offensive player.
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valid point on gaborik...but to be fair nash did a pretty good disappearing act in the playoffs himself.
 
If the St.Louis trade didn't happen today I don't think it's going to. I trust Boomer as a source; I think Yzerman got cold feet. If MSL really only wants to be a Ranger, he's best off waiting until the draft or the offseason to get a better return than a rental Callahan.

On Callahan: there's speculation Buffalo has been taking calls on Grigorenko. A young Russian kid isn't going to have the patience to play on a rebuilding team. The Rangers have some interesting leverage here if they want to make a deal. It's no secret Buffalo wants to throw a boatload of cash at Callahan July 1st. What if the Rangers make Buffalo think they'll do a sign and trade with another team before Buffalo can make their offseason offer? Try to squeeze some quality young assets out of Buffalo to guarantee them Callahan long term. A signed Callahan can get us at least Grigorenko and a prospect like Armia or Pysyk.
 
darko said:
McIlrath is yet to turn 22 and has missed bit of time too delaying his development. He needs to be given another couple years before people starting applying the bust label.
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You really have a vendetta against McI, don't you?
 
I eat- I think you are right. Why would they wait with the deal? Doesn't make much sense, unless there are other teams involved bidding who needs more time. But this seems like something you pull the trigger on or not.

BTW, I also trust Boomer as a source. One thing I never will be able to understand is people that get pissed at rumors not coming into action. I mean, its one thing to be pissed at someone for making something up. But we already know that is not the case here, MSL asked out and by all accounts contacts has been made between NY and Tampa.
 
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Ola said:
I eat- I think you are right. Why would they wait with the deal? Doesn't make much sense, unless there are other teams involved bidding who needs more time. But this seems like something you pull the trigger on or not.
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NMC? I read somewhere MSL is still in Sochi, they need him to sign off on it. Didn't Boomer say that they were waiting till the players get back from the olympics?
 
For the people saying the Rangers aren't contenders this year even with St. Louis: What team have you been watching? The Rangers was playing great for a couple of months before the olympic break. It's not so long ago we were 2 under .500. Now we're 8 over. There is no reason to look at the stats for the complete season. We're not the same team we were at the start of the season and lately we have been one of the best teams in the league.

Lundquist and Nash are both back to form. Lines have chemistry. The team has adapted to the new system. Carcillo and Klein has strengthened the team. Boyle is out there doing spin moves for ****s sake. What's with the negativity?

Barring injuries, the Rangers are contenders with or without St. Louis although he would be a huge addition.
 
I would add to Callahan for St.Louis.

1v1 would be a steal.

St.Louis & Vigneault are a match made in heaven, Miller will be this teams Callahan going forward, get elite talent and have the best RW depth in the league. If St.Louis is available you have to grab him, he has virtually no injury history, is a health nut, and hasn't lost a step. I'd have loved Selanne, Jagr, or Whitney over the last 4 seasons.
 
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