I think that Klein has already had a positive impact on Moore. He can step into top 4 when pressed, sticks up for teammates, steady, cost effective -- every reason to keep him.
Rumor: Trade Rumor/Speculation Thread XIX: The Olympic Freeze
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I think that Klein has already had a positive impact on Moore. He can step into top 4 when pressed, sticks up for teammates, steady, cost effective -- every reason to keep him.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
This edit is crap too.
There is no "keep Cally on a reasonable contract" option. If there was, I'd be open to it. And there is no "dump him" option either - at least not as you presented it.
Your options are:
1) Keep him and GROSSLY overpay him for WAY too long, destroy your cap for the next several years at least, and likely be stuck with a Drury/Redden clone in 3 to 4 years time.
2) Keep him and let him walk for nothing in the offseason.
3) Trade him and recoup value.
Number 3 should be the only logical choice, ESPECIALLY to anyone who lived through the Kamensky-type "it's worth it to make a run this year" moves.
Captain Monglobster
Registered User
- Nov 9, 2005
- 2,041
- 1,566
I don't see Callahan finishing checks like he used to.
I don't see Callahan setting the tone on the PK or in general like he used to.
I see a player on the downside of his injury plagued career who is going to demand 6mil+ per year until he's in his mid-30s.
I love Callahan he is the heart of the Rangers, but he is not worth 6 mil per year, or even 5 mil per year - UNLESS its a 3 year deal.
If you give him 5+ years it has to be in the 4mil per range. Otherwise the last 3 years will be wasted cap space.
I don't see Callahan setting the tone on the PK or in general like he used to.
I see a player on the downside of his injury plagued career who is going to demand 6mil+ per year until he's in his mid-30s.
I love Callahan he is the heart of the Rangers, but he is not worth 6 mil per year, or even 5 mil per year - UNLESS its a 3 year deal.
If you give him 5+ years it has to be in the 4mil per range. Otherwise the last 3 years will be wasted cap space.
At least people here are semi-seriously contemplating Rangers hockey, unlike some other threads where Derek Jeter is the primary topic of conversation.
And I agree with most of what I just read from two posters on Cally; but one thing should be made clear;
Callahan's contract expectations aren't unrealistic, because each & every year the market hands out at least one bizarro contract, and that's what's been pushing salaries up & up.
And he WILL get one.
and that's what makes this a tough negotiation - one I don't see a happy ending to. For Callahan, who is worth precious little more than the 5 yr, $6m per the Rangers reportedly have already offered - if that - he could be leaving $20m bucks or more on the table signing with them.
VERY easy for me to say he should offer a hometown discount, the NYR have been good to him, etc, etc. But it's not MY money.
So I just think, unfortunately, it's time they part ways.
I blame in part nimrod John Tortorella, for not recognizing he had a guy who was so blood & guts, he'd stop at nothing, even trying to block Chara's shots with his head, and reigning him in for his & the team's own good. But coaches get paid to win now, and at least equally responsible is Cally, who is or has been, even this season, too dumb to curtail unnecessary shot blocks in the closing seconds of already-decided games. So I hope he enjoys the second phase of his career as a Buffalo Sabre. Rangers have too much that's positive happening and need to cut loose of this. The next phase of imports has plainly in my mind assumed command from the Cally-Dubi era.
And I agree with most of what I just read from two posters on Cally; but one thing should be made clear;
Callahan's contract expectations aren't unrealistic, because each & every year the market hands out at least one bizarro contract, and that's what's been pushing salaries up & up.
And he WILL get one.
and that's what makes this a tough negotiation - one I don't see a happy ending to. For Callahan, who is worth precious little more than the 5 yr, $6m per the Rangers reportedly have already offered - if that - he could be leaving $20m bucks or more on the table signing with them.
VERY easy for me to say he should offer a hometown discount, the NYR have been good to him, etc, etc. But it's not MY money.
So I just think, unfortunately, it's time they part ways.
I blame in part nimrod John Tortorella, for not recognizing he had a guy who was so blood & guts, he'd stop at nothing, even trying to block Chara's shots with his head, and reigning him in for his & the team's own good. But coaches get paid to win now, and at least equally responsible is Cally, who is or has been, even this season, too dumb to curtail unnecessary shot blocks in the closing seconds of already-decided games. So I hope he enjoys the second phase of his career as a Buffalo Sabre. Rangers have too much that's positive happening and need to cut loose of this. The next phase of imports has plainly in my mind assumed command from the Cally-Dubi era.
polako
Registered User
- Mar 21, 2004
- 1,178
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Cally's gotta go. He's been a heart and soul player and a real leader for this team since he's been up, but he's surplus to requirements right now.
His value under AV is far less than his value under Torts's physical, shot blocking system. That team was built on hustle and physicality, while AV is building his team on skills and technique.
Given his bloated salary and contract length demands, the team is best served getting what they can for him and moving forward. Keeping him as a rental is a less desirable option, but also understandable. Signing him to his desired contract would be very financially irresponsible.
His value under AV is far less than his value under Torts's physical, shot blocking system. That team was built on hustle and physicality, while AV is building his team on skills and technique.
Given his bloated salary and contract length demands, the team is best served getting what they can for him and moving forward. Keeping him as a rental is a less desirable option, but also understandable. Signing him to his desired contract would be very financially irresponsible.
Zats Muccarello
Grinder
Simply put, Callahan is not vital to this team's success and thus his contract demands are preposterous. Gotta move him for some kind of return.
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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NYR Viper
Registered User
Why? They received a valuable piece back. If Allen or McIlrath show they are ready move someone. If they find a puck mover available via trade, they have a defensive dman available in the NHL to move as part of the package.
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
Why can't they still make that trade? Why is depth at RD something that needs to be altered. I doubt Callahan is being traded for Boyle. Girardi-Stralman-Klein down the right side. If McIlrath is ready next year, then you start shopping defensemen. Klein is in his prime, he's not old. He's on a nice contact, I don't see any reason to trade him. If they need the cap space, there's plenty of other players that should go before Klein, most of them being UFAs that we don't even have to trade.
FFS, the guy has played like 7 games for us.
I don't have big expectations for Allen and McIlrath. But regardless, Boyle is a nice 2-3 yr stopgap. The other defenders can develop at a slow rate in Hartford. If they're good, they'll find a way on the team like McDonagh did.
Why can't they make that trade? Well they already have Staal, McDonagh and Moore(he's struggling, but young) on the left side.
On the right side, I see a clear deficiency and that's Klein. Stralman has played so well this season, that I feel he can handle his own on the 3rd pair with Moore. That leaves a spot open as the defense partner for Marc Staal.
I feel it's more efficient to have Dan Boyle on the roster than Kevin Klein, simple as that. In fact, I feel it's an astronomical upgrade. Boyle has slowed down a bit, but he is still much better than Klein at this point in time. I feel Klein is not much of an upgrade on your average #6 dman. I feel Boyle's style of game would compliment our PP as I feel McDonagh's production is unsustainable. He would fit well with Staal or McDonagh(if needed) at ES as well.
Boyle for years has carried the deadweight known as Douglas Murray.
It's not even based on his 7 games he's been played in. He's dragged down the play of his linemates for years. He's a liability over the longhaul, despite being on a supposed 'steal contract' Simply not a good enough player.
Klein has been largely outstanding from what Ive seen; he's really settled down what was a nerve-wracking 3rd pair, and he's got grit we haven't seen yet, but its there. We'll need it in the playoffs.
If the argument is preferring Dan Boyle over Klein, presumably it'd be to help the PP, but even there Boyle's had just 6 pts all year. He's been banged up & looked noticeably slower in the few SJ games Ive seen; same time, he's posted 22 pts despite missing time; he's a guy that could help most any team, though I wouldnt bet for long.
Ive been screaming for a point man since Leetch, but trading Callahan for Boyle would permanently boggle my mind unless Hertl was in the package - and its difficult imagine Dean Lombardi drunk enough to trade that kid; who knows what Sather has in front of him. But from everything we've seen and heard, the Stewart+ deal doesnt sound half bad. Especially if Stastny is coming in the summer, replacing Richards. Those two guys put up big points together, and we'd be collectively bigger and younger on the 3rd line. The 3rd line.
Not too shabby, considering the tough spot the NYR are in with Cally.
If the argument is preferring Dan Boyle over Klein, presumably it'd be to help the PP, but even there Boyle's had just 6 pts all year. He's been banged up & looked noticeably slower in the few SJ games Ive seen; same time, he's posted 22 pts despite missing time; he's a guy that could help most any team, though I wouldnt bet for long.
Ive been screaming for a point man since Leetch, but trading Callahan for Boyle would permanently boggle my mind unless Hertl was in the package - and its difficult imagine Dean Lombardi drunk enough to trade that kid; who knows what Sather has in front of him. But from everything we've seen and heard, the Stewart+ deal doesnt sound half bad. Especially if Stastny is coming in the summer, replacing Richards. Those two guys put up big points together, and we'd be collectively bigger and younger on the 3rd line. The 3rd line.
Not too shabby, considering the tough spot the NYR are in with Cally.
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aufheben
#Norris4Fox
1) We are strong on the right side, and now with Klein stabilizing Moore a bit, we're strong on the left side as well. Even if we were weak on the Right side, I don't see how trading a solid, veteran right-handed RD makes sense, at least to me.
2) "He's dragged down the play of his linemates for years." He's literally been doing the opposite of that as a Ranger. Nashville fans were livid to see this guy go, and some guys on this board talk about him like he's a 6th defensemen. The guy hasn't even had a realistic amount of time to adjust to AV's system. He's a pretty tough, right-handed, good skating RD on a nice contract. Yeah, let's trade him. He's just what this defense needed. (Obviously an offensive/PMD type is and has been our need for years)
Also, if we're trading Callahan for Dan Boyle (are Sharks fans even in support of this trade?) why would we trade Klein instead of Girardi? He's UFA and could fetch us nice assets. I know you and Blue Blooded love Stralman, but feel free to search my post history, I'm a big a Stralman fan as anyone.
I think Stralman and Girardi should be resigned. But trading our only RHD/RD under contract (a nice contract at that) is....bonkers, IMO.
Plus, Dan Boyle is a UFA this summer, and the guy is ****ing 37. We're gonna trade our only RD under contract, and go into the offseason with the entire Right Side of our defense up for new, expensive contracts (one player being ancient). Yeah, sounds like the beginning of a great offseason.
(I know Allen plays the right side, and should be a capable NHLer, but I don't like to see big decisions based on that sort of stuff).
Why watch him when you could look up his advanced stats from past seasons?
Klein is going to be our replacement for Sauer, his veteran experience is an added bonus. I am 100% against trading Klein. What kind of value are we going to get for a defensemen who's only been with us for 1/10th of the season? I don't know, but I can't imagine that somehow raises his value in any way.
Sorry if I've misunderstood, but something about Nashville fan's lividness at his departure combined with these allegations about his play, which seem to be based heavily, if not entirely, on advanced statistics, doesn't sit well with me. The reality is he's probably somewhere in the middle, which is fine with me. I love Sauer/Klein typie defensemen, and am already seeing the positive effects of this trade. This discussion has me wondering how Klein would look with Staal, and subsequently Moore-Stalman. Staal-Stralman is a great pairing, so I don't see this happening anytime soon, but it would be interesting.
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He's valuable to any system, but unfortunately he hasn't played the way that made him effective in the past. Like Captain Monglobster was saying, when was the last time Callahan really set the tone of a shift/period/game with a huge check or tough play? His shorty against whoever is the last thing I can really remember. But this decreased intensity spans back to last season..The hopeful in me says, in the event he's retained, that will be a weight lifted and will spur him to play the way he used to, but the rest of me says things are going in a different direction with what he's apparently demanding and won't take any less than.
DudMan28
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2013
- 3,042
- 2,014
Where did all this hate for Klein come from? The guy is far from a #6 D-man in the NHL. He gives us insurance if G and/or Stralman leave in the offseason. Just because he is on the 3rd pairing doesn't mean that he isn't a good defenseman. He's not flashy, but he gets it done.
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
- Oct 8, 2010
- 80,068
- 17,709
His advanced stats aren't good, so that automatically makes him a terrible player.
Apparently.
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
- Oct 8, 2010
- 80,068
- 17,709
Trading Klein noted dumb idea.
Signed at $2.9M for four years. He can be a great 3rd pairing D or a solid stay-at-home 2nd pairing D. John Moore has been noticeably better since we made the move to add Klein. Our D has balance at the moment because of that trade.
Signed at $2.9M for four years. He can be a great 3rd pairing D or a solid stay-at-home 2nd pairing D. John Moore has been noticeably better since we made the move to add Klein. Our D has balance at the moment because of that trade.
BBKers
Registered User
So I gather this team would be out of the question next year?
FORWARDS
Anthony Duclair ($0.820m)
/ Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Mats Zuccarello ($3.400m) / Paul Stastny ($7.600m) / Chris Stewart ($4.150m)
Chris Kreider ($2.600m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Jesper Fast ($0.805m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Oscar Lindberg ($0.675m) / Daniel Carcillo ($1.000m)
Derek Dorsett ($1.633m) / Steve MacIntyre ($0.625m) for the goon show
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Anton Stralman ($3.300m)
John Moore ($1.650m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Conor Allen ($0.925m) - Big Mac a callup
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
TOTALS
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000
CAP PAYROLL: $69,340,000
BONUSES: $1,380,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,760,000
FORWARDS
Anthony Duclair ($0.820m)
/ Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m) Mats Zuccarello ($3.400m) / Paul Stastny ($7.600m) / Chris Stewart ($4.150m)
Chris Kreider ($2.600m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Jesper Fast ($0.805m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Oscar Lindberg ($0.675m) / Daniel Carcillo ($1.000m)
Derek Dorsett ($1.633m) / Steve MacIntyre ($0.625m) for the goon show
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Anton Stralman ($3.300m)
John Moore ($1.650m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Conor Allen ($0.925m) - Big Mac a callup
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
TOTALS
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000
CAP PAYROLL: $69,340,000
BONUSES: $1,380,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,760,000
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
I'd like more offense from our defensemen, but otherwise it's a very balanced group. I dig it. Trading Callahan for a 37 yr old UFA is ridiculous. Literally the opposite of what Sather should be shopping Callahan for. That'd essentially be the same as letting Cally walk for nothing. Unless you think Dan Boyle puts this team over the top in the playoffs.
Anyway, I'd rather have prospects have to work their way into the lineup rather than just be given spots. If the time comes, then you start considering trade one of the current defensemen.
BBKers
Registered User
I hear you. But how likely is the following scenario?
After we let Prust go, we ended up paying his money and then some too -- and assets for -- Asham, Pyatt, Powe, Dorsett an co, and none has come close to replacing him. Not close.
What are the odds that we pay the money we save on Cally to someone else who will contribute LESS than Cally? 95%? 75%
Teams don't lack cap space, teams lack players. We have had cap space for 10 years now, and every time we spend it it's a disaster. And it's not only us. If you got 5.5m to spare you will get a Clowe or Clarkson.
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