Rumor: Trade Rumor/Speculation Thread XIX: The Olympic Freeze

[BarbaraAlphanse]

The reason its not simple for the Rangers is because they buy into the bolded every year. Most successful operations have a long-term roadmap and an overarching set of principles on how to get there.

The Rangers dont. They never have, and they likely never will.

I don't know if I trust them preparing for the future.

Average drafting. They've hit some gems on trades but they've also traded useful guys away for duds or disappointments.

And trading Cally and amnestying Richards makes me worried because Glen with an open wallet is oftentimes disastrous. Statsny 7 yrs @7.5 scares me the most. Could Glen do it? Absolutely.

It's tough saying "oh well trade Girardi, or trade Callahan" because we actually don't know the future map that the F.O has planned. And, to add uncertainty, if we did have a road map and it involved picks and prospects, they're not even close to guaranteed locks.

Which is why i'm so hesitant to go on board with the trade some people, or even just our captain, bandwagon... unless we get a package that really mitigates the risk of the pieces coming back. If we can't get that fair value package for C, I struggle to find how its worth throwing this season away for more risks down the road.

 

[Nightshift]

Fans demand shiny new toys and management hops to, or is it management with the new toy syndrome and the fanbase getting on board? I know I've come to expect the latter. The biggest stage in the world will always look for the big name/big money guy. Stastny will probably get a huge offer and wind up here. There isn't anything we can do but embrace it. Unless you want to root for another team.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I don't know if I trust them preparing for the future.

Average drafting. They've hit some gems on trades but they've also traded useful guys away for duds or disappointments.

And trading Cally and amnestying Richards makes me worried because Glen with an open wallet is oftentimes disastrous. Statsny 7 yrs @7.5 scares me the most. Could Glen do it? Absolutely.

It's tough saying "oh well trade Girardi, or trade Callahan" because we actually don't know the future map that the F.O has planned. And, to add uncertainty, if we did have a road map and it involved picks and prospects, they're not even close to guaranteed locks.

Which is why i'm so hesitant to go on board with the trade some people, or even just our captain, bandwagon... unless we get a package that really mitigates the risk of the pieces coming back. If we can't get that fair value package for C, I struggle to find how its worth throwing this season away for more risks down the road.

No offense, but your view on trading Callahan and absolutely having to get a return as good as the player is a symptom of the problem. Its the same way Glen Sather thinks. If I make this move right now, I need to find a replacement right away.

Sometimes I wish the Rangers would accept that its often necessary to take a step back to take two steps forward.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Fans demand shiny new toys and management hops to, or is it management with the new toy syndrome and the fanbase getting on board? I know I've come to expect the latter. The biggest stage in the world will always look for the big name/big money guy. Stastny will probably get a huge offer and wind up here. There isn't anything we can do but embrace it. Unless you want to root for another team.

Good question - chicken and the egg type of thing.

I will say this - theres certainly a pretty sizable portion of the fanbase that will support ANY transaction because of the newness factor. Hell, look at some of the Redden threads from 2008. You couldnt have a signing with more red flags and plenty of fans were very happy with it at the time.

 

[Thirty One]

No offense, but your view on trading Callahan and absolutely having to get a return as good as the player is a symptom of the problem. Its the same way Glen Sather thinks. If I make this move right now, I need to find a replacement right away.

Sometimes I wish the Rangers would accept that its often necessary to take a step back to take two steps forward.

I think you're right about Glen Sather in this regard. Many years the Rangers were on the fringe of the playoffs (to be generous) and he would make an addition at the deadline. It took being smacked in the face with their mediocrity for him to recoup some assets for some players.

But this year would be a much different situation, IMO.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think you're right about Glen Sather in this regard. Many years the Rangers were on the fringe of the playoffs (to be generous) and he would make an addition at the deadline. It took being smacked in the face with their mediocrity for him to recoup some assets for some players.

But this year would be a much different situation, IMO.

I just think recouping some assets from a Callahan trade would be a good move. But Im scared to death he'll turn around and give an almost identical long-term contract to someone like Stastny?

Why? Not because Stastny fits some sort of long-term plan. But because hes the best center on the market at that given time.

Look at what the Sharks did with Clowe last year - I just cant picture Sather making a move like that.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

No offense, but your view on trading Callahan and absolutely having to get a return as good as the player is a symptom of the problem. Its the same way Glen Sather thinks. If I make this move right now, I need to find a replacement right away.

Sometimes I wish the Rangers would accept that its often necessary to take a step back to take two steps forward.

No, I think in the Callahan regard that's exactly what you need to do. If you're doing a move that could destroy all of your chances you need to get something that benefits you in the future the same way it benefits you now.

Again, you're electing to go the conservative route. I'm saying you either throw the chips in for this year and recoup on the fly the next 2 years or you trade Callahan and you get equal value for him going forward.

Trading him for the purpose of trading him could be catastrophic for the organization moving forward in so many different regards. It's not worth the risk for such a low return.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

I just think recouping some assets from a Callahan trade would be a good move. But Im scared to death he'll turn around and give an almost identical long-term contract to someone like Stastny?

Why? Not because Stastny fits some sort of long-term plan. But because hes the best center on the market at that given time.

Look at what the Sharks did with Clowe last year - I just cant picture Sather making a move like that.

Clowe wasn't their captain.

 

[Thirty One]

I just think recouping some assets from a Callahan trade would be a good move. But Im scared to death he'll turn around and give an almost identical long-term contract to someone like Stastny?

Why? Not because Stastny fits some sort of long-term plan. But because hes the best center on the market at that given time.

Look at what the Sharks did with Clowe last year - I just cant picture Sather making a move like that.

I think they should recoup assets for Callahan, too. I think one should be an NHL forward, however.

The Sharks replaced Clowe immediately, so there's that.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

No, I think in the Callahan regard that's exactly what you need to do. If you're doing a move that could destroy all of your chances you need to get something that benefits you in the future the same way it benefits you now.

Again, you're electing to go the conservative route. I'm saying you either throw the chips in for this year and recoup on the fly the next 2 years or you trade Callahan and you get equal value for him going forward.

Trading him for the purpose of trading him could be catastrophic for the organization moving forward in so many different regards. It's not worth the risk for such a low return.

We keep coming back to this thing where you think trading Callahan will absolutely destroy the Rangers chances to do anything in the playoffs. I totally disagree with that.

 

[pld459666]

I don't know if I trust them preparing for the future.

Average drafting. They've hit some gems on trades but they've also traded useful guys away for duds or disappointments.

And trading Cally and amnestying Richards makes me worried because Glen with an open wallet is oftentimes disastrous. Statsny 7 yrs @7.5 scares me the most. Could Glen do it? Absolutely.

It's tough saying "oh well trade Girardi, or trade Callahan" because we actually don't know the future map that the F.O has planned. And, to add uncertainty, if we did have a road map and it involved picks and prospects, they're not even close to guaranteed locks.

Which is why i'm so hesitant to go on board with the trade some people, or even just our captain, bandwagon... unless we get a package that really mitigates the risk of the pieces coming back. If we can't get that fair value package for C, I struggle to find how its worth throwing this season away for more risks down the road.

I think that Callahan is a hell of a player, but Callahan is not going to be the reason we win and lose on a nightly basis.

He's very good player that is seeing his role diminished because while he does SOME things very well, he's less than stellar in other areas of that game that are JUST as important to winning games.

He's not moving Nash from his spot and Zuccs has pretty much removed Callahan from the PP discussion.

Trading Callahan and getting no roster player in return is not throwing the season away. Not even close.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

We keep coming back to this thing where you think trading Callahan will absolutely destroy the Rangers chances to do anything in the playoffs. I totally disagree with that.

I'm afraid that removing him from the equation, for this year's team, will be a very big setback for them.

I'm afraid if we trade him and don't get maximum value AND the effect i'm of afraid of happens, then it will be regarded as one of the stupidest decisions by the f.o. for years.

I may be wrong, but i'd rather not fool around with the chemistry of the players. That's a defining factor on any successful team.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I'm afraid that removing him from the equation, for this year's team, will be a very big setback for them.

I think you highly overrate the importance of a "captain" who, unlike other captains around the league, is not the best - or even close to the best - player on his team.

I'm afraid if we trade him and don't get maximum value AND the effect i'm of afraid of happens, then it will be regarded as one of the stupidest decisions by the f.o. for years.

I don't get this at all. You're saying that if they trade him, it will somehow have some kind of long-term effect - and that letting him walk away for nothing would not...? I would argue that letting a valuable asset walk for nothing would have the much greater long-term effect.

I may be wrong, but i'd rather not fool around with the chemistry of the players. That's a defining factor on any successful team.

I don't necessarily disagree, but a) I once again think you're overstating his individual importance and b) we're not talking about an odds-on favorite for the cup here! If they're 95% likely to lose, what does it matter if you make a move that bumps that up to 98% (with the goal of improving the odds next year, and the year after and the year after that)?

On the one hand, you concede my point about having more bites at the apple in the draft, and then on the on the other you're saying you need a massive haul, otherwise you'd rather throw away the extra picks and take the longshot PO run. The two positions simply do not jibe.

Which is why I think why we keep going in circles. You keep trying to say your position is rooted in logic, but I think the reality is you're trying to justify your emotional attachment to Callahan. Which is fine! It's your prerogative as a fan. It's just not how a team should be run.

 

[broadwayblueshirts]

While Cally brings a number of intangibles to the team, I struggle giving him the money that we are reportedly offering him - forget about what he wants. For all intents and purposes Cally is Mike Peca who was a hell of a hockey player (intangible wise) for about 8 years and then everything caught up with him and he became a shell of what he once was. It is just a matter of time before the same happens to Cally and we dont need a 6 million dollar 3rd line wing scoring 30 points a year. We need to get something in return asset wise for him and prepare for the upcoming contracts over the next few years.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

I think you highly overrate the importance of a "captain" who, unlike other captains around the league, is not the best - or even close to the best - player on his team.


I don't get this at all. You're saying that if they trade him, it will somehow have some kind of long-term effect - and that letting him walk away for nothing would not...? I would argue that letting a valuable asset walk for nothing would have the much greater long-term effect.



I don't necessarily disagree, but a) I once again think you're overstating his individual importance and b) we're not talking about an odds-on favorite for the cup here! If they're 95% likely to lose, what does it matter if you make a move that bumps that up to 98% (with the goal of improving the odds next year, and the year after and the year after that)?

On the one hand, you concede my point about having more bites at the apple in the draft, and then on the on the other you're saying you need a massive haul, otherwise you'd rather throw away the extra picks and take the longshot PO run. The two positions simply do not jibe.

Which is why I think why we keep going in circles. You keep trying to say your position is rooted in logic, but I think the reality is you're trying to justify your emotional attachment to Callahan. Which is fine! It's your prerogative as a fan. It's just not how a team should be run.

I have no emotional attachment to Callahan.

I have emotional attachment to Zucc, Kreider, Hank, and Staal. McIlrath will likely become a 5th if he ever makes it. Love the hobbit, been rooting for him since we initially signed him. Saw Kreider at BC for 2 years at BC before he left. Hank was a Godsend. Staal is my favorite defender on the team.

Anyone else i'm either impartial about or want off this team. In Callahan's case i'm impartial.

But I do want the team to succeed. I'm unfortunate enough to root for the Rangers, the Jets, the Mets, and the Knicks. I was born in '92 and technically, I haven't seen 1 championship by any of them (and remembered it). If anything, I'm foolishly optimistic about this season because for once, this team is showing balance and dominant defensive play.

I think Callahan should be traded, but I feel like a high line of value needs to be held firm to obtain him.

Our main disagreements seem to be:
1) Whether the team will collapse this year if he is traded
2) What fair value is for Callahan
3) If we're contenders this year

Your belief on #1 is that it won't necessarily collapse this year if we trade him. Meaning that you're willing to accept a lower value as your answer to #2. Also contributing to your acceptance of a lower value is that you don't believe we are contenders (#3).

My belief is that we will collapse this year and that we are contenders this year and therefore my value for Callahan is much higher than yours.

Unfortunately for us, we have no tangible methods of proving our arguments without a Callahan trade actually occurring - and the merry go round goes around and around.

 

[Trxjw]

I think they should recoup assets for Callahan, too. I think one should be an NHL forward, however.

The Sharks replaced Clowe immediately, so there's that.

They did, but they didn't replace him with the same trade that sent him away, and that's what a lot of people here are expecting. On top of that, most people who are expecting that kind of value in the deal turned up their nose at a deal around Chris Stewart, which would have been an instant replacement for Callahan.

If the Rangers move Callahan, they're not getting his younger, cheaper clone back in the deal. The fact that they wont seems to be the justification for many people to not even consider moving Callahan in a trade.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

So Stastny played great with Patches and Oshie, quick Sather do sign and trades with Cally and Girardi and bring in Patches and Oshie then sign Stastny in the off season!

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

So Stastny played great with Patches and Oshie, quick Sather do sign and trades with Cally and Girardi and bring in Patches and Oshie then sign Stastny in the off season!

Oshie was available several years ago. Wish we took a look then.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Miller
Kristo
Fast
Lindberg
Kantor
Duclair
Buchnevich
Tamballeni

McIlrath
Allen
Skjei
Anderson

There is depth in our minors. Another reason I don't think Cally gets traded for a subpar package. Even if we let him walk we have replacements.

I genuinely think they'll need an offer to blow them away to give him up at this stage of the season and I think its the right move. Hold firm on a line or throw the chips in this season.

If you get that package though, I think Miller can come in and provide similar production to Cally. That's at least, a plus.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Miller
Kristo
Fast
Lindberg
Kantor
Duclair
Buchnevich
Tamballeni

McIlrath
Allen
Skjei
Anderson

There is depth in our minors. Another reason I don't think Cally gets traded for a subpar package. Even if we let him walk we have replacements.

I genuinely think they'll need an offer to blow them away to give him up at this stage of the season and I think its the right move. Hold firm on a line or throw the chips in this season.

If you get that package though, I think Miller can come in and provide similar production to Cally. That's at least, a plus.

The Wolfpack are the worst team in the AHL. But hey, at least not all of those names masquerading as depth play for Hartford.

I also fail to understand your logic. If theres legitimate depth in the minors (something I disagree with) wouldnt that make it easier to trade Callahan?

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

The Wolfpack are the worst team in the AHL. But hey, at least not all of those names masquerading as depth play for Hartford.

I also fail to understand your logic. If theres legitimate depth in the minors (something I disagree with) wouldnt that make it easier to trade Callahan?

Duc, Buch, Tambalini, Skjei, and Anderson are all not playing for them.

Miller is a ppg player there. Lindberg has improved significantly - attributes that to getting used to the style of play and smaller rink. I'm not sure on what Fast will be but a 20/20 guy on the 3rd line that is smart with the puck and a good forechecker doesn't seem to be out of the question. Kristo is listed as our 2nd best offensive prospect and I think he has natural goal scoring ability that will translate at the NHL level if he can limit defensive lapses.

The logic behind it is saying that since they have guys that can slot in on wing next year, they're not pressed to replenish the system just yet.

They could hold onto Cally, let him walk, and trade Klein at the draft for a 2nd rounder.

If Staal doesn't want to resign he'll have to be traded in the offseason too.They'll recoup assets with him as well.

Over the last decade, Sather has made his roster turnovers during the offseasons, not during the deadline.

I can't see him trading Cally unless a team gives that magic offer. And I think he thinks he's in a position of power, where he's not forced to make such a rash decision to trade him just for any assets, because he doesn't have any good prospects in the system.

I think the f.o thinks they hit all 3 3rd rounders out of the park this season and I think that it has given them leeway with what to do with Callahan.

If Stralman resigns, Klein will be used to recoup more assets down the line. Staal could be too. Dorsett could be used at the deadline this year. Brassard as an RFA?

There are other options to get picks and replenish. Doubt Sather chooses the biggest one.

 

[Thirty One]

They did, but they didn't replace him with the same trade that sent him away, and that's what a lot of people here are expecting. On top of that, most people who are expecting that kind of value in the deal turned up their nose at a deal around Chris Stewart, which would have been an instant replacement for Callahan.

If the Rangers move Callahan, they're not getting his younger, cheaper clone back in the deal. The fact that they wont seems to be the justification for many people to not even consider moving Callahan in a trade.

Whether it's Callahan for roster player +, or Callahan for ++ and then + for a roster player, it doesn't matter to me.

They're, of course, not going to get a younger Callahan in the deal but I think you can still replace his even-strength scoring and still get more assets back.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Duc, Buch, Tambalini, Skjei, and Anderson are all not playing for them.

Miller is a ppg player there. Lindberg has improved significantly - attributes that to getting used to the style of play and smaller rink. I'm not sure on what Fast will be but a 20/20 guy on the 3rd line that is smart with the puck and a good forechecker doesn't seem to be out of the question. Kristo is listed as our 2nd best offensive prospect and I think he has natural goal scoring ability that will translate at the NHL level if he can limit defensive lapses.

The logic behind it is saying that since they have guys that can slot in on wing next year, they're not pressed to replenish the system just yet.

They could hold onto Cally, let him walk, and trade Klein at the draft for a 2nd rounder.

If Staal doesn't want to resign he'll have to be traded in the offseason too.They'll recoup assets with him as well.

Over the last decade, Sather has made his roster turnovers during the offseasons, not during the deadline.

I can't see him trading Cally unless a team gives that magic offer. And I think he thinks he's in a position of power, where he's not forced to make such a rash decision to trade him just for any assets, because he doesn't have any good prospects in the system.

I think the f.o thinks they hit all 3 3rd rounders out of the park this season and I think that it has given them leeway with what to do with Callahan.

If Stralman resigns, Klein will be used to recoup more assets down the line. Staal could be too. Dorsett could be used at the deadline this year. Brassard as an RFA?

There are other options to get picks and replenish. Doubt Sather chooses the biggest one.

It really astounds me that you'd be willing to do all that crazy stuff in the offseason, yet want to hang onto Callahan now because, apparently without him, this team will implode.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

It really astounds me that you'd be willing to do all that crazy stuff in the offseason, yet want to hang onto Callahan now because, apparently without him, this team will implode.

I didn't suggest we do all of them. I'm stating his options. He can replenish on any of those players. Not all.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I didn't suggest we do all of them. I'm stating his options. He can replenish on any of those players. Not all.

C'mon.

Take something like this:

They could hold onto Cally, let him walk, and trade Klein at the draft for a 2nd rounder.

Why in the hell would you lose Cally and Klein for just a 2nd rounder when you could deal Callahan right now for a much better return and keep a solid D-man like Klein?

All because of how important this playoff run is? Its insanity.