Speculation: Trade / Roster Speculation Thread XXXIV: Over the edge of being a little closer.

[Mikos87]

Just like Pittsburgh, they are still very good at taking away the ice and shutting you down.

One big key, if not the key, is probably to shut them down offensively. If we can keep them to 1-2 goals a game, we got a chance. If they get 3, we are in trouble.

The magic number for both teams is 3. Although Quick has had a few bad games, the magic number will probably be 3.

These two teams are very good defensively, and have the two best goalies in the world. Both teams play mistake free hockey. Rangers are a faster puck possession transition team, LA is harder along the walls.

Ratings should be through the roof for the league. Maybe CHI follows the Hawks more than LA does with the Kings, not sure of that, but this is what the league could hope for in terms of generating fan interest.

The Kings can score, and Gaborik has had Henrik's number in the past, so it will be an interesting one for sure.

 

[Inferno]

The magic number for both teams is 3. Although Quick has had a few bad games, the magic number will probably be 3.

These two teams are very good defensively, and have the two best goalies in the world. Both teams play mistake free hockey. Rangers are a faster puck possession transition team, LA is harder along the walls.

Ratings should be through the roof for the league. Maybe CHI follows the Hawks more than LA does with the Kings, not sure of that, but this is what the league could hope for in terms of generating fan interest.

The Kings can score, and Gaborik has had Henrik's number in the past, so it will be an interesting one for sure.

i'm not at all convinced of that seeing the Kings through these playoffs.

 

[mike14]

The Kings can score, and Gaborik has had Henrik's number in the past, so it will be an interesting one for sure.

Gabby has scored in four out of ten games against Hank. You take out the 5 goal game as a statistical anomaly and it's three goals in nine games

 

[TheTakedown]

A few years back Stralman was almost out of the league. He got dropped without contract from the Devils. Klein is a tenured player who until very recently was in the top 4 of one of the better defensive corps in the league.

Now, the players are very close. But if you paired Stralman with Moore, and Klein with Staal, I think you'd see a better public perception of Klein. Girardi looked like **** playing with Del Zotto.

This is what I keep saying. To an extent, Stralman is a product of his partner. Just like Girardi in very few ways is a product of his partner. It's not a bad thing, especially when you see McD-Girardi... they absolutely have chemistry together, and they've been nearly unbreakable and extremely durable. BUT, i'd like you to sit there and tell me you LIKE watching Moore-Girardi on the ice -- aka Bag of pucks-Slow as molasses, especially when AV puts them on the powerplay...

I'm not discounting Stralman. he is a solid player with great poise (Pierre McGuire moment?) and some very relaxed and timely playing abilities... He can hold his own in one-on-one battles, and knows how to move the puck. Unfortunately, that's where the toolbox stops. When you directly compare this to Klein, they're nearly the same player, except Klein is much more experience and knows how to use those tools to their fullest extent: faster skater, better on the rush, better point shot, MUCH better poise, able to play with a crappy partner.

I would bet money that Moore-Stralman would look very, very ridiculous out there.

 

[Blue Blooded]

This is what I keep saying. To an extent, Stralman is a product of his partner. Just like Girardi in very few ways is a product of his partner. It's not a bad thing, especially when you see McD-Girardi... they absolutely have chemistry together, and they've been nearly unbreakable and extremely durable. BUT, i'd like you to sit there and tell me you LIKE watching Moore-Girardi on the ice -- aka Bag of pucks-Slow as molasses, especially when AV puts them on the powerplay...

I'm not discounting Stralman. he is a solid player with great poise (Pierre McGuire moment?) and some very relaxed and timely playing abilities... He can hold his own in one-on-one battles, and knows how to move the puck. Unfortunately, that's where the toolbox stops. When you directly compare this to Klein, they're nearly the same player, except Klein is much more experience and knows how to use those tools to their fullest extent: faster skater, better on the rush, better point shot, MUCH better poise, able to play with a crappy partner.

I would bet money that Moore-Stralman would look very, very ridiculous out there.

The factual evidence overwhelmingly points toward Staal's recent uptick in play is a product of being partnered with Strålman, not the other way around. "Not Staal"-Strålman has performed significantly better than Staal-"Not Strålman" in every situation.

I know this won't happen, and I also know I'm in a minority, but I'd move any one of Klein/Girardi/Staal if it is the only way to keep Strålman. I can no longer look past the mountain of evidence that suggests that he is at worst our second best defenceman.

I'd prefer to keep our defence as is (maybe move Girardi for a young RH PMD like Vatanen or a veteran RH PMD like Byfuglien), but Strålman definitely takes precedence over everyone but McD.

Here is how our D has performed against different tiers of competition over the past three regular seasons (adjusted for zone starts and quality of teammates):

If we think we can replace Strålman with Klein we are going to be in deep ****. Klein is also helped a ton by adjustment for teammates (as Nashville was a terrible possession team), without the adjustment his numbers are even further in the toilet.

This also flies right in the face of the "Strålman can't handle 1st pairing matchups"-narrative, which even I subscribed to. Strålman does his best work against top competition.

 

[Ola]

I am a little confused about the Stralsy vs Klein debate.

Klein is the better offensive player? It's nice to see that Klein isn't lost offensively. And I like Klein. I'd bet that Johnny Oduya wasn't much better for Chi his first year than Klein has been for us his first year. I think Klein could become a good player for us if schooled into this system. Ds always need time.

But his game with the puck is very limited. A few blind rushes maybe. But no kind of elite passing game and overall no high level thought process with the puck.

Stralsy gets by defensively, and he especially has been able to grow into that role where he is focused and composed shift in shift out, night in night out.

Offensively Stralsy is somewhat high caliber. He is just well schooled overall. But in this league nowadays, especially since moving back the bluelines, it takes something extra for a D to be a threat from the blueline and in. And lately Stralsy had just fallen short for us from the blueline and in. That is not good, because we really need more of a punch from the blueline. But we of course benefit from his skills in other areas, when coming out of our own end in general and so forth.

Klein would definitely be a downgrade offensively overall from Stralman. I mean come on.

 

[GarretJoseph*]

IF you don't win the cup you have an excuse to dump Richards and if St Louis gets hurt about it then you move him for a 1st+ at the draft.

IF you win the cup, you have already reached the top. No where else but to go down. Dump richards and if St Louis gets hurt - dump him as well at the draft. Get a 1st back and a roster player / prospect. I'm sure if he wins another cup and lights it up against LA he will have a great deal of value to a team in the hunt for next season.

I would like both to stay especially if we win the cup but we can't eat that Richards contract. Would be a huge mistake IMO. My fear is that if we don't win the cup - Sather will think this team is the team and will add, not subtract so you could see kids like Miller / Kreider moved for older playoff proven vets next season at the deadline.

 

[Blue Blooded]

I am a little confused about the Stralsy vs Klein debate.

Klein is the better offensive player? It's nice to see that Klein isn't lost offensively. And I like Klein. I'd bet that Johnny Oduya wasn't much better for Chi his first year than Klein has been for us his first year. I think Klein could become a good player for us if schooled into this system. Ds always need time.

But his game with the puck is very limited. A few blind rushes maybe. But no kind of elite passing game and overall no high level thought process with the puck.

Stralsy gets by defensively, and he especially has been able to grow into that role where he is focused and composed shift in shift out, night in night out.

Offensively Stralsy is somewhat high caliber. He is just well schooled overall. But in this league nowadays, especially since moving back the bluelines, it takes something extra for a D to be a threat from the blueline and in. And lately Stralsy had just fallen short for us from the blueline and in. That is not good, because we really need more of a punch from the blueline. But we of course benefit from his skills in other areas, when coming out of our own end in general and so forth.

Klein would definitely be a downgrade offensively overall from Stralman. I mean come on.

Good point about the bluelines. In this era of the NHL, points from defencemen are almost solely based on their shot ability. However skill has never been more important for defencemen, but nowadays it mostly translates to possession play rather than points.

Then we have guys like MDZ who despite his skill is too dumb to play an effective possession game.

Dom G. @MimicoHero · 23 maj

Decided to read into some scouting reports on Stralman, Martinez, Muzzin, Vlasic, Brodie, Vatanen etc...

Dom G. @MimicoHero · 23 maj

All said the same thing. "Excellent puck-mover, skates well, high hockey IQ, undersized, over-powered by NHL fwds, needs polish defensively"

Dom G. @MimicoHero · 23 maj

It's become clear that size isn't a necessity at all. That is why we are seeing more and more "undersized" dmen crop up in the NHL.

 

[Ola]

Blueblooded- I agree for sure.

And not only shooting power is important for Ds to really be able to get through, reach can be a very big factor too. A forward that moves out on a D at the point needs to a) cut of the passing lane from the D back along the boards, b) take away the shooting lane (and while doing so you are also somewhat in a position to take away the passing lane diagonally to center ice). The wing span of a bigger D often makes it possible for him to rip a shot "around" the forward coming at him.

Re. MDZ, Nashville is not a puck-possession team. Barry Trotz is not a good coach (and I would love to see him behind the bench in Washington lol). MDZ first played for Torts in NY, then RD for AV in NY and then back to playing for a non-puck-possession coach in Trotz in Nashville. I am not saying that he will recover, maybe he was just screwed to much. But the kid we got coming out of Juniors was a perfectly workable kid. He was a good pick. With proper development, he shouldn't have been too far behind the likes of Voynov, Shattenkirk and co.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Blueblooded- I agree for sure.

And not only shooting power is important for Ds to really be able to get through, reach can be a very big factor too. A forward that moves out on a D at the point needs to a) cut of the passing lane from the D back along the boards, b) take away the shooting lane (and while doing so you are also somewhat in a position to take away the passing lane diagonally to center ice). The wing span of a bigger D often makes it possible for him to rip a shot "around" the forward coming at him.

Re. MDZ, Nashville is not a puck-possession team. Barry Trotz is not a good coach (and I would love to see him behind the bench in Washington lol). MDZ first played for Torts in NY, then RD for AV in NY and then back to playing for a non-puck-possession coach in Trotz in Nashville.

Strålman was a fantastic possession player under Torts last year, MDZ has never been one.

2011-13, adjusted for zone starts:

MDZ: 48.2 CF%

Strålman: 52.8 CF%

MDZ without Strålman: 46.7 CF%

Strålman without MDZ: 53.7 CF%

That's a 7-point difference apart, which is absolutely massive.

Unless he has been paired with a puck mover (Strålman, Rozsival, Gilroy) his possession numbers have been abysmal (and all three have posted significantly better numbers without him), which insinuates that he can't be the puck mover on his pairing. MDZ-G, Staal-MDZ, and McD-MDZ have all been unmitigated disasters, though the latter two has him playing his off-side which he has proven to be completely incapable of.

 

[mti79]

Not to derail the topic of the defense, but I was just thinking about the Richards situation. If I remember correctly, you only have a short time after the playoffs end to use the compliance buyout. If we win the Cup, do we buy out Richards and then have him at all the celebrations? That's kind of awkward....

 

[jniklast]

You don't ever rest your goalie in the playoffs, not even when you're up 3-0 in the first round and certainly not in the Stanley Cup final. That notion is beyond ridiculous and complete nonsense considering the 5 days rest the team just got.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers have until June 30 to amnesty Richards. Buyout window opens June 15 or 48 hours after the last Cup final game. It's a business. I remember the Pistons won the NBA title and on the day of their parade Rick Mahorn was informed he was not protected in the expansion draft. It was in 89 or 90. $53 million committed to 12 players. Everyone will see their price go up after the Rangers run to the finals. Brooks wrote about it on Sunday. Richards will get the buyout money and sign another contract on July 1.

 

[AHB*]

You don't ever rest your goalie in the playoffs, not even when you're up 3-0 in the first round and certainly not in the Stanley Cup final. That notion is beyond ridiculous and complete nonsense considering the 5 days rest the team just got.

Who is advocating that. Lunacy. Lundqvist would probably murder AV.

 

[Ola]

Not to derail the topic of the defense, but I was just thinking about the Richards situation. If I remember correctly, you only have a short time after the playoffs end to use the compliance buyout. If we win the Cup, do we buy out Richards and then have him at all the celebrations? That's kind of awkward....

I don't know, its kind of the same as him being a UFA. Or any of our other UFAs. Many players have known they aren't returning 2-3 weeks after winning a cup.

 

[Ola]

The Rangers have until June 30 to amnesty Richards. Buyout window opens June 15 or 48 hours after the last Cup final game. It's a business. I remember the Pistons won the NBA title and on the day of their parade Rick Mahorn was informed he was not protected in the expansion draft. It was in 89 or 90. $53 million committed to 12 players. Everyone will see their price go up after the Rangers run to the finals. Brooks wrote about it on Sunday. Richards will get the buyout money and sign another contract on July 1.

BR will sign a good contract, I think he is doing his due diligence this time and hence will sign with a team that really fits him, which means that he also could end up playing some really good hockey for someone else...

 

[Ola]

OTOH, 4-7 games left to play. What do we do if BR gets an concussion? Say good bye to at least Stralsy, Pouliot, Moore and Boyle, maybe someone else too, while only locking up Zucc, Kreids, Brass and co to the shortest possible deals, while only replacing the UFAs with basically minimum contracts...

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

BR will sign a good contract, I think he is doing his due diligence this time and hence will sign with a team that really fits him, which means that he also could end up playing some really good hockey for someone else...

I think he'll sign a contract similar to Lecaviers.

 

[Blue Blooded]

BR will sign a good contract, I think he is doing his due diligence this time and hence will sign with a team that really fits him, which means that he also could end up playing some really good hockey for someone else...

Richards will be the next player in the revolving door that is the 2C position on the Washington Capitals where he will pick up a billion points on the PP while not helping at all 5v5 as they miss the playoffs once again.

Ranger fans will still complain loudly that we bought out a 70-point player, and completely look past the context of those 70 points.

 

[TheTakedown]

Hopefully BR isn't too butthurt if he wins a cup here, that way he can say he got his cup with his best friend for a 2nd time in his life. If he really wants to stay here, he can sign a 1 year deal with someone else, keep himself in very good shape, then sign a 35+ contract in the following year with us if management deems it fit.

That's the only way I see him returning if we buy him out.

 

[LGRDunDunDunDunDa]

Yes, I do not think there would be tooooo much bad blood on the buyout. He knows it is a business and the rangers are Strapped. His performance this year has lived up to the Contract (for the first time) but he "probably" is only downhill from here. Hope he has a great Finals and wins the cup.

 

[Mikos87]

i'm not at all convinced of that seeing the Kings through these playoffs.

They've locked it down when it matters, but their lack of speed on the backend can definitely be exploited. Greene, Mitchell are pylons. They are very effective in a "half court" set up, but a fast transition game, a lot of their players will get exploited.

Still they are the best defensive team from the regular season, and won 3 game 7 series against 3 legitimate contenders in San Jose, Anaheim, and Chicago.

Doesn't mean that they can't be beat, the Rangers need to come out an blitzkreig their defense and move the puck out before they can establish a forecheck.

Gabby has scored in four out of ten games against Hank. You take out the 5 goal game as a statistical anomaly and it's three goals in nine games

Yeah, I'm still having flashbacks to that 5 goal game, and the 2 he scored at the all star game. You know he's motivated, and he's had plenty of practice time against Hank. Gaborik is an in and out goal scorer that shows up when he's feeling good about himself. With a contract on the line, and a chip on his busted shoulders... he's going to show up.

Bu then again, it is the finals, everyone is going to show up.

 

[Kakko]

Okay, so maybe I'm just being dumb, but it seems like our players never get bonuses on the their contracts.

Nowadays, I'm constantly seeing guys around the league get huge possible bonuses, with a much lower actual cap hit. Don't see the Rangers doing it.

Am I seeing this correctly?

 

[wafflepadsave]

They've locked it down when it matters, but their lack of speed on the backend can definitely be exploited. Greene, Mitchell are pylons. They are very effective in a "half court" set up, but a fast transition game, a lot of their players will get exploited.

Still they are the best defensive team from the regular season, and won 3 game 7 series against 3 legitimate contenders in San Jose, Anaheim, and Chicago.

Doesn't mean that they can't be beat, the Rangers need to come out an blitzkreig their defense and move the puck out before they can establish a forecheck.



Yeah, I'm still having flashbacks to that 5 goal game, and the 2 he scored at the all star game. You know he's motivated, and he's had plenty of practice time against Hank. Gaborik is an in and out goal scorer that shows up when he's feeling good about himself. With a contract on the line, and a chip on his busted shoulders... he's going to show up.

Bu then again, it is the finals, everyone is going to show up.

They will do this or be destroyed. If you think boston is physical, this will get ugly quick, if the rangers do not use their speed and support each other (short passes)
and chip the puck out of danger.

 

[Inferno]

They will do this or be destroyed. If you think boston is physical, this will get ugly quick, if the rangers do not use their speed and support each other (short passes)
and chip the puck out of danger.

imho boston, philly and la are your 3 most physical teams...i dont think they are in a class of their own for sure.