Speculation: Trade / Roster Speculation Thread XXXIII: Clever Title Pending

[NYR Viper]

Staal needs to be locked up. I think hes been the best player in these playoffs.

Hes one of those guys with a unspectacular game that will be sorely missed if hes gone.

Yeah there shouldn't be a question about that at all. Rock solid

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Staal needs to be locked up. I think hes been the best player in these playoffs.

Hes one of those guys with a unspectacular game that will be sorely missed if hes gone.

In an ideal world, yes. The problem is this team is going to have a lot of big contracts and not a lot of cheap, young talent to fill in the gaps.

Another season, I was against trading away more picks.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

In an ideal world, yes. The problem is this team is going to have a lot of big contracts and not a lot of cheap, young talent to fill in the gaps.

Another season, I was against trading away more picks.

True. Everyone loves to pump up the Rangers "elite defense and goaltending," and while that is true, these guys are starting to really get paid and get expensive.

Meanwhile, besides chucking assets at "established fowards" that are flaming out, the organization has done little to develop the offense over the last few years.

 

[Savant]

Hagelin, John Moore, Miller, Fast, Dorsett & Nash should be who the team looks to trade this summer.

Its clear that Lundqvist, McDonagh, Staal and Girardi are our cornerstone players and are who the Rangers need to build around. Obviously you do not see an offensive player in there. You get one more year of St. Louis, and then who knows. Stepan you might be able to throw in there, but I think you really need to get a center than can break entry through the zone. To use Colorado as an analogy, Stepan is the Rangers' Stastny, (one of the reasons I am against signing him as a free agent), but Stepan needs a MacKinnon/Duchene type to compliment him for match up purposes on another line. Stastny, is helped by having high level players on other scoring lines that have speed and skill, which in turn makes his well rounded game look better, as he isn't asked to carry to much of an offensive, play making role.

Now, we know that AV wants a net presense, and we know that AV needs a center than is capable of breaking the zone. While the players I mentioned in the first paragraph may or may not be attractive to everyone, you can target players of the style that the team lacks using them as bait. Its about getting the right pieces in, not the flashiest names.

If one of Haggerty, Bodie or McCarthy hits, not having a 2nd (or 1st) won't be an issue. If Richards is amnestied, and the money isn't wasted, then the cap drain wont be nearly as bad. If Nash can be moved for better assets then that won't necessarily hurt the cap either.

My two Nash moves that might make sense:

Nash and Hagelin (maybe a little more) to SJ for Pavelski and Havlat's expiring contract; desperate teams do crazy things, Thornton loves Nash, stranger things have happened

Nash, Stepan & Hagelin to CAR for Staal and Staal; Nash probably vetoes but I think that trade does wonders for both teams. Really gives Carolina a clean slate in terms of a rebuild/new identity. Eric and Jordan in NY gives the Rangers two kinds of players they desperately need. A legit 1C, and a defensive 2C that can anchor a checking line to platoon with the MZA line for offensive/defensive matchups; we know how AV likes to zone match.

Anyway that's my creative outburst for the day.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Nash is virtually untradeable at this point as far as Im concerned.

What bubble/playoff team is going to invest in a guy that is proving to be a big game dud?

What lower level team is going to invest in a guy whose salary actually increases over the next few years?

We are stuck with him.

 

[NYR Viper]

Nash is virtually untradeable at this point as far as Im concerned.

What bubble/playoff team is going to invest in a guy that is proving to be a big game dud?

What lower level team is going to invest in a guy whose salary actually increases over the next few years?

We are stuck with him.

Can the Rangers eat actual salary but not the cap hit?

 

[Tawnos]

Can the Rangers eat actual salary but not the cap hit?

Nope. Retaining salary is not a dollar figure, but a percentage. For example, a team which retains 50% of a player's salary also retains 50% of his cap hit. A team retaining 25% of a player's salary also retains 25% of his cap hit. And so on...

 

[Cliffy1814]

Hagelin, John Moore, Miller, Fast, Dorsett & Nash should be who the team looks to trade this summer.

Its clear that Lundqvist, McDonagh, Staal and Girardi are our cornerstone players and are who the Rangers need to build around. Obviously you do not see an offensive player in there. You get one more year of St. Louis, and then who knows. Stepan you might be able to throw in there, but I think you really need to get a center than can break entry through the zone. To use Colorado as an analogy, Stepan is the Rangers' Stastny, (one of the reasons I am against signing him as a free agent), but Stepan needs a MacKinnon/Duchene type to compliment him for match up purposes on another line. Stastny, is helped by having high level players on other scoring lines that have speed and skill, which in turn makes his well rounded game look better, as he isn't asked to carry to much of an offensive, play making role.

Now, we know that AV wants a net presense, and we know that AV needs a center than is capable of breaking the zone. While the players I mentioned in the first paragraph may or may not be attractive to everyone, you can target players of the style that the team lacks using them as bait. Its about getting the right pieces in, not the flashiest names.

If one of Haggerty, Bodie or McCarthy hits, not having a 2nd (or 1st) won't be an issue. If Richards is amnestied, and the money isn't wasted, then the cap drain wont be nearly as bad. If Nash can be moved for better assets then that won't necessarily hurt the cap either.

My two Nash moves that might make sense:

Nash and Hagelin (maybe a little more) to SJ for Pavelski and Havlat's expiring contract; desperate teams do crazy things, Thornton loves Nash, stranger things have happened

Nash, Stepan & Hagelin to CAR for Staal and Staal; Nash probably vetoes but I think that trade does wonders for both teams. Really gives Carolina a clean slate in terms of a rebuild/new identity. Eric and Jordan in NY gives the Rangers two kinds of players they desperately need. A legit 1C, and a defensive 2C that can anchor a checking line to platoon with the MZA line for offensive/defensive matchups; we know how AV likes to zone match.

Anyway that's my creative outburst for the day.

In reading some articles about what the Sharks might do to change their mix, Pavelski's name has come up. That Nash/Pavelski deal is not crazy at all.
Marluea and Thornton just signed team friendly deals with NMC. Corture is untouchable.
Here is one quote from Sharks beat writer:
" Joe Pavelski and Brent Burns are intriguing and they could look to sell high on Pavelski. His five-year, $30 million extension with a limited no-trade clause kicks in this summer.

 

[Raspewtin]

True. Everyone loves to pump up the Rangers "elite defense and goaltending," and while that is true, these guys are starting to really get paid and get expensive.

Meanwhile, besides chucking assets at "established fowards" that are flaming out, the organization has done little to develop the offense over the last few years.

The elite defense and goaltending was a lot more favorable when Staal and Girardi were on their original contracts (well, they still are), and McD and DZ were still on ELCs and playing like impact players.

It goes to show just how important young talent really is.

 

[RangerBoy]

Trade Nash? Why not look to trade someone whose value is high instead of the other way around? It's always the same thing. We can't trade Del Zotto because he is our only PMD and then it's he sucks and get rid of him. Francesa was having the same discussion with the Mets fans yesterday. They don't want to trade anyone for an impact bat. He brought up trading Gee who most people would have trading without shedding any tears a year ago but is now deemed untouchable.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Trade Nash? Why not look to trade someone whose value is high instead of the other way around? It's always the same thing. We can't trade Del Zotto because he is our only PMD and then it's he sucks and get rid of him. Francesa was having the same discussion with the Mets fans yesterday. They don't want to trade anyone for an impact bat. He brought up trading Gee who most people would have trading without shedding any tears a year ago but is now deemed untouchable.

Agreed.

People will be up in arms about it, but this is the exact reason why a Zuccarello trade should be explored.

 

[Raspewtin]

Nash is virtually untradeable at this point as far as Im concerned.

What bubble/playoff team is going to invest in a guy that is proving to be a big game dud?

What lower level team is going to invest in a guy whose salary actually increases over the next few years?

We are stuck with him.

I don't agree at all.

Do you see the way Canadian media pumps him up? Look at all the excuses he's gotten.

"But he scored 40 goals that one time!"

"Two time gold medalist! He's a winner!"

"He's 6' 4" and 215! He's a physical beast!"

Being signed through 2018 makes him even more tradable.

Some GM will be enticed to put him with their elite center, or put him with a no nonsense coach, with which he seems to thrive.

Very few players are really untradeable.

 

[Raspewtin]

Agreed.

People will be up in arms about it, but this is the exact reason why a Zuccarello trade should be explored.

Trading Zucc should be explored if you believe he can't replicate his success.

That or you get a stupid overpayment. Without one of those, I don't trade Zucc.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Trading Zucc should be explored if you believe he can't replicate his success.

That or you get a stupid overpayment. Without one of those, I don't trade Zucc.

Giving Zuccarello a 3-4 year deal worth $4M per or so when hes buried behind Nash and MSL at RW is a slippery slope.

This is not a knock on MZA -- its selling high on an asset.

 

[Raspewtin]

Trade Nash? Why not look to trade someone whose value is high instead of the other way around? It's always the same thing. We can't trade Del Zotto because he is our only PMD and then it's he sucks and get rid of him. Francesa was having the same discussion with the Mets fans yesterday. They don't want to trade anyone for an impact bat. He brought up trading Gee who most people would have trading without shedding any tears a year ago but is now deemed untouchable.

Were you in favor of trading Nash last offseason?

It's not that easy to identify.

There's players who very clearly had career outlier seasons, that you could sell high on, like Joe Pavelski. They're the types you trade. The Cory Conacher for Ben Bishop trade is a prime example.

If there's a reason to believe the success player X is having is not sustainable, then you sell high.

Or you have a replacement. In this case, we do have two players taking up his spot. So, I wouldn't be opposed to trading Nash even if he wasn't sucking horribly.

 

[Raspewtin]

Giving Zuccarello a 3-4 year deal worth $4M per or so when hes buried behind Nash and MSL at RW is a slippery slope.

This is not a knock on MZA -- its selling high on an asset.

Eh. MSL is 38 and Zucc is 26. He has a spot in this lineup, especially cause he can play LW.

I'd honestly rather trade Nash. It's not popular, and it's selling low (again.), but Sather made his own god damn bed here.

It goes back to the endless cycle of Sather ****ing sucks at identifying his own talent. I bet he truly believe Brassard could put up 60 point numbers here last off season.

I did too, kind of. But the GM of the 2nd most valuable hockey team in the world should know better than me.

 

[Gilligans Island]

If the Sharks do trade Pavelski, it would be for a #2 dman who can play the left side. On the Rangers, probably Staal would be the main target. But as pending UFA with rumors that he wants to play with his other brothers, trading for him would concern me.

Any interest in Thornton? We all know there's a love affair between him and Nash, and if the Rangers buyout Richards, you guys will need a top 6 C.

 

[Raspewtin]

If the Sharks do trade Pavelski, it would be for a #2 dman who can play the left side. On the Rangers, probably Staal would be the main target. But as pending UFA with rumors that he wants to play with his other brothers, trading for him would concern me.

Any interest in Thornton? We all know there's a love affair between him and Nash, and if the Rangers buyout Richards, you guys will need a top 6 C.

Absolutely not to Thronton. Not one sliver of interest.

There are no Marc Staal wants to play with his brothers rumors. There never were any. Ever.

They're probably even more dead now that Eric Staal is rumored to be traded.

If there was to be a 1-1 trade for Pavelski, it would be fair value, but Rangers wouldn't do it.

 

[Gilligans Island]

Absolutely not to Thronton. Not one sliver of interest.

There are no Marc Staal wants to play with his brothers rumors. There never were any. Ever.

They're probably even more dead now that Eric Staal is rumored to be traded.

Never said Thornton for Staal... It was a deal based around Staal for Pavelski with I think the Rangers adding since Staal's a pending UFA...

The question was - what would the Rangers give up for Thornton only?

 

[Raspewtin]

Never said Thornton for Staal... It was a deal based around Staal for Pavelski with I think the Rangers adding since Staal's a pending UFA...

The question was - what would the Rangers give up for Thornton only?

No, my post was saying we don't want Thornton at all, he's not what we're looking for.

If the Rangers have to add for Pavelski it's a definite no. Staal's been our best player these whole playoffs. In absolute beast mode.

 

[Trxjw]

If the Sharks do trade Pavelski, it would be for a #2 dman who can play the left side. On the Rangers, probably Staal would be the main target. But as pending UFA with rumors that he wants to play with his other brothers, trading for him would concern me.

Any interest in Thornton? We all know there's a love affair between him and Nash, and if the Rangers buyout Richards, you guys will need a top 6 C.

As was mentioned, there were never any rumors around Staal wanting to play with his brothers. It was fabricated by the media once the other three wound up on the same team. In fact, most comments Marc has made have been to the contrary.

In regards to Thornton, I think the response from most Rangers fans on this board would be "Not interested." Unfortunately, the response from our GM would likely be, "Very interested. How often do you get a chance to acquire a player like Joe Thornton?"

That being said, since you asked, I think players like Staal, Kreider, etc, would all be off-limits for Thornton. Fringe pieces would be the offer.

 

[Raspewtin]

As was mentioned, there were never any rumors around Staal wanting to play with his brothers. It was fabricated by the media once the other three wound up on the same team. In fact, most comments Marc has made have been to the contrary.

In regards to Thornton, I think the response from most Rangers fans on this board would be "Not interested." Unfortunately, the response from our GM would likely be, "Very interested. How often do you get a chance to acquire a player like Joe Thornton?"

This. Ugh.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I don't think we will get a kings ransom for either so I think they'll have more value re-signed. Especially trading Zucc wouldn't make much sense for a team that can hardly score. He was our leading scorer after all.

Agreed. However, if he doesn't perform up to par next season, you will have the crew who comes out and complains about how we "didn't sell high" on the player. On the flip side, if we trade Zuccarello now, all we will hear about is how we are trading an integral part of this team. Regardless of what happens, people will be un happy. I worry about how much of his success is based on Pouliot and his big body on that line. If they replace him with some one smaller I feel as if Zucc's production may suffer.

 

[Trxjw]

Giving Zuccarello a 3-4 year deal worth $4M per or so when hes buried behind Nash and MSL at RW is a slippery slope.

This is not a knock on MZA -- its selling high on an asset.

I think the even slipperier slope is sacrificing another player who not only gives his all for this team, but provides the depth scoring that allowed this team to even make it as far as we have this year. It really comes down to what the market is for him, but it's a real shame the team put themselves in the position where this is an issue.

 

[CommaSynapse]

Nash is virtually untradeable at this point as far as Im concerned.

What bubble/playoff team is going to invest in a guy that is proving to be a big game dud?

What lower level team is going to invest in a guy whose salary actually increases over the next few years?

We are stuck with him.

I don't think Nash is untradeable, but we would be selling low on him for it to work out.

I think the Sharks could be interesting. I feel that they're in a win-now mode and could use the extra firepower. Thornton and Nash are familiar with one another. Nash, as we all know, tries to do too much on his own, seeming to not trust his teammates. Pairing him back up with Thornton gives him a very good playmaker to work off of. I think it could potentially help Nash regain form and make more of an impact in the playoffs.

I'm not sure if it's the concussions leaving him wary to get dirty in front of the net and contribute to board work, but he just seems incredibly disinterested most nights, and that honestly pisses me off since he's making a hell of a lot of money.

As someone pointed out, Richards had a concussion last year, had a slow season, and regained some measure of his form this year. It's possible Nash does the same thing, but I think the Rangers are in DIRE need of a true #1 C to play in front of Stepan. A guy like Pavelski is intriguing, especially if he is available. If we take Havlat back and give them another piece, it helps even out the cap and gives us another top 6 winger, albeit one who is oft-injured.

Cap would be tight next year. We'd need a 2nd line LW in the area of around $3-4 mil. If that would be the line, he'd need to be a physical-type player.


Kreider - Pavelski - MSL
? - Stepan - Havlat
Pouliot - Brass - MZA
Carcillo - Moore - Boyle


I like the center depth, but I think the LW would be suspect.