Speculation: Trade / Roster Speculation Thread XXXIII: Clever Title Pending

[LORDE]

When I say sell high, I say it with McIlrath in mind. Some love him around here and Im not quite sure why? Only because hes currently Rangers property? Might it be a better route to sell him off to some team, still trumpeting him as a top 10 draft pick with big upside?

I think people around here are still holding out hope that he'll become something. Selling him off at the moment wouldn't exactly be "high" would it?

At some point every prospect hits that spot in the curve where the team has to just fish or cut bait... if you wait too long it's better to keep them and hope that they pan out. Might be where we are with McI

There's still time tho... kid is still really young.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think people around here are still holding out hope that he'll become something. Selling him off at the moment wouldn't exactly be "high" would it?

At some point every prospect hits that spot in the curve where the team has to just fish or cut bait... if you wait too long it's better to keep them and hope that they pan out. Might be where we are with McI

There's still time tho... kid is still really young.

I have a bad feeling that every moment that goes by negatively effects his value.

 

[Vitto79]

Hope Cally signs in tbay so the rangers get a second . May lose a 1st if they can advance to east finals.looobg way to go

 

[Leetch3]

So out of the 16 players who played at least 60 games for the team...only 6 of them were actually drafted by the Bruins.

Not even half.

37.5%.

If you include their 2 goalies, Rask and Johnson, that becomes 6 out of 18.

33%


I would call complete and utter shenanigans that the only way to build an elite team is through the draft.

valid points...although if you look at the guys that they drafted, bergeron, krecji, lucic, marchand are key core guys. building the core foundation of a team thru the draft doesn't mean having a team full of drafted players. i think there is still alot to be said about building that foundation and then supplementing it with free agency and trades...

you also can't ignore the value of draft picks because they aren't still with the team...if they don't trade andrew raycroft, he can't be dealt for rask. if they don't draft kessel, he can't be turned into hamilton and seguin (who was turned into eriksson & reilly smith...acquiring assets and proper asset management is a huge part of drafting success, as much as having guys you drafted on your team

 

[CommaSynapse]

Was talking on the trade boards.

A Kings fan offered Williams and one of Weal/Clifford for Hags and one of Kristo/Falk/J. Moore, with +/- either way.

I think I'd definitely do Williams and Weal for Hags and Falk, maybe Kristo. Next year, we'd have


Nash - Stepan - MSL
Pouliot - Brassard - Zuccs
Kreider - Weal/Miller/Lindberg/UFA - Williams
Boyle - Moore - Dorsett

Could do that with about 4 million in cap space.

I'd like that depth, but it would back up moving Miller, Fasth, or Lindberg up.

 

[Ola]

Great discussion !

A few thoughts:

- I definitely agree with Inferno and co. that a champ must not be built through own 1st round selections.

- It seems however like many champs, and maybe especially nowadays, are built around a pretty young home grown core (and maybe especially up front too):

*Chi x 2: Towes and Kane
*Bos: Bergeron, Lucic, Marchand
*Det: Z and Dats

And so forth. If you go back and check the age of the core players on a team for 20 years, more often than not the core is young, like 24-26 rather than 26-30 (while there of course are exceptions) (Dallas mainly, and the teams repeating).

-There is never anything wrong with a great move (ok the Kovalchuk trade by NJ might be the exception that confirm the rule...).

Ie the (true) MVP of a SCW team CAN be a UFA, like Chara. Sometimes it's great to trade away first round picks and prospects. Sometimes it's great to hang on to and acquire first round picks.

- I don't think it's as hard to win a cup in this league -- for us -- as someone might think. We can attract UFAs. We have the assets to build an organization like we want it to be. And so forth. Even UFA signings that didn't work out brought us McD, Brass, John Moore and co.

On the other side of the spectrum you have a lot of teams that aren't ever even in the running for UFAs, that loose home grown players to the lure of more attractive cities, and so forth. Those teams have to pay the second tier UFAs the insane money, or always rebuild.

-The key to develop special players is definitely to put them in a special environment. Look at how FAST Bos really came together for example. They were a very avg team that had Lucic and Marchand, and a few others, come out of nowhere once they started to have that environment in place.

The bottom end, just make the RIGHT moves.

 

[SwaglinNYR]

There is a difference in QUICK hits and long term prospects. The key to any draft is to have a viable combination of both. Referencing teams that tanked and have had success in the same draft year or the year after seems to be the popular choice for success. I can be proud of the team that was built because they did not take a season off. Sather has been a thorn in the side for many people in our area because of the expectation of GREATNESS. We have won 2 cups in 74 years!! We all EXPECT to win EVERY YEAR as well we should. We have a great market and GREAT FANBASE and deserve to have a GREAT TEAM every year. The problem is that we have been so mediocre that our draft picks tend to lie in the middle of the draft where sink or swim prospects live. This is why management feels that we can trade these assets. We need to find our Cory Perry.

 

[RangerBoy]

In cap world and with every team signing their top players,draft picks and player development are more important than ever. Boston made changes to their scouting staff last summer because they wanted to get more out of their draft picks. The Rangers are in a win now mode because the President/General Manager of the team will be 71 years old in September. All of the teams have money to keep their players. Just look at the free agent lists every July. The lists are progressively worse and worse every year. Anton Stralman and Matt Niskanen are the best defensemen available in free agency. The Islanders didn't want pay MacDonald but Philly did. A team needs to have young players to replace the departing free agents. The good teams are able to infuse young players into their line-up. Chicago did it with players like Saad,Leddy,Kruger and Shaw. The Rangers replace the departing free agents with lesser and cheaper free agents. That's the problem.

 

[Ola]

RB- Good points, but don't be too tough on Slats.

I do for example think that JT Miller, John Moore and Fast will match up very well against Saad, Kreuger and Leddy in 3-5 years time, it's prediction that could turn out really bad, but I actually believes in it. JT Miller is underrated, I think JT acted out in some way after being demoted once again and AV played it tough. Unless Miller flips out, he will become a real good player.

Fast is still young, and has like been injured two straight years before this season. I don't like his skating right now, but I've seen him skate a lot better before starting to get injury problems. Compared to like Callahan, Fast is still ahead of where Cally was at the same age. I wouldn't bet the house on it, but I do expect Fast to develop a lot over the coming 2-3 years, and he is already very close. Many are like wow Tatar this or Kreuger that and whatever. But I've seen Fast show that he has every bit if not more in him than guys like Tatar, Kreuger and co.

John Moore is also coming along fine. AV has done a good job with him. Wouldn't be suprised to see him take a big step the next time McD / Staal is hurt. McD is a good role model for Moore.

Then we have a few other names. Lindberg. Allen. McIlrath of course. Duclair. It could be better, but it could definitely be worse too...

McIlrath should make it and pay off if we can keep him focused. For so many players 24-26 is no age to make it. McI is developing on a yearly basis, he will he there unless he derails. Then he will make it for someone else.

Lindberg has a lot of very good qualities. Not log ago he took regular key defensive shifts for Sweden in the WCHs against a team that had E Staal as a 4th line center and a bunch of megastars or was the MVP of the SHL POs. That "Toews" ability he had won't always show on a night by night basis in the AHL, but he is still a good prospect.

 

[Thirty One]

In cap world and with every team signing their top players,draft picks and player development are more important than ever. Boston made changes to their scouting staff last summer because they wanted to get more out of their draft picks. The Rangers are in a win now mode because the President/General Manager of the team will be 71 years old in September. All of the teams have money to keep their players. Just look at the free agent lists every July. The lists are progressively worse and worse every year. Anton Stralman and Matt Niskanen are the best defensemen available in free agency. The Islanders didn't want pay MacDonald but Philly did. A team needs to have young players to replace the departing free agents. The good teams are able to infuse young players into their line-up. Chicago did it with players like Saad,Leddy,Kruger and Shaw. The Rangers replace the departing free agents with lesser and cheaper free agents. That's the problem.

Can you explain the difference between Saad, Leddy Kruger, Shaw and Hagelin, Kreider, McDonagh, Stepan?

Also the difference between the Rangers "lesser and cheaper" free agent signings and Michal Handzus, Michal Rozsival, Sheldon Brookbank, et al.?

Thanks in advance.

 

[bernmeister]

mfw people would love to trade Kreider for Byfuglien

What the actual ****

IDK --- wtf

I get busy for a couple of weeks and we enter Bizzarro universe!

I realize you and I often disagree, thanks for holding the fort on this one.

People!
No moving Kreider without getting real talent in return.

 

[Thirty One]

People!
No moving Kreider without getting real talent in return.

lol. ok...

 

[bernmeister]

After watching the Kings trade away a stud prospect in Hudson Fasching for an NHL ready LHD in McNabb, and seeing just how big of a group of pylons they have on defense... it looks like LA's defense simply can't skate to keep up with the elite teams in the league.

Mitchell and Regehr are Rich Pilon bad compared to the Shark forwards, and this would be an ideal time for them to upgrade. Jake Muzzin is their best LHD, and he is a 4-5 D. LA badly needs defensemen that can skate from what they are showing in the playoffs.

How about a trade of JMoore and Hrivik for Weal and Sabourin?

Watched a lot of AHL hockey in CT, and can think that Weal has the upside to be a 2nd line center. Really smart play making center, a little on the short side, but sturdy. Quick hands, RH shot, high IQ player. Not an elite skater, but gets around well enough ala Stepan. Has scored progressively at every level that he's played.

Sabourin has a power forward build, nice mix of size toughness and grit. Would make for a great 4th line winger in a year. Some upside as he is a very good straight line skater. Not high IQ player, but competes hard, wins a lot of board battles, or ties up well along the walls. A good zone possession player. Won't score, but if he can kill penalties, he'd become a 6'3" 225 version of a Brandon Prust. Think Zack Kassian or Marcus Foligno without the hype. A 10-10-20 100 PIM bottom line forward.

Conor Allen can replace Moore seamlessly. Not as fast of a skater, but is a better athlete, more focused, consistent, takes a hit to make a play, doesn't turn the puck over when pressured, and mentally tough. Guy is a serious athlete, and can move the puck out of trouble. Very focused and mature player. NHL ready now.

I like the overall initiative and thrust of this.
However, I'm more inclined to think of something around J Moore for Tanner Pearson.

 

[bernmeister]

Move who? Stralman is in line to get a really nice contract based on the lack of players available in free agency and how much MacDonald got. He would stupid to pass up free agency to re-sign with the Rangers before July 1 unless the Rangers overpay him like the Flyers did with MacDonald. Once Stralman gets to free agency,the Rangers will be forced to pay more than they want. See Prust. Montreal offered 4 years and $10M and the Rangers offered 3 years and $6M. Girardi has a 6 year deal and a no move for the first 3 years. Klein is signed for the next 4 years. Stralman would mean another long-term commitmnent. Stralman will end up being more expensive than Klein. They are essentially the same player. McIlrath loses his waiver exemption after 14-15. The Rangers can't be in the same spot Columbus will be in with Erixon who is waiver eligible next season and they don't know if he can play at the NHL level. They have too lefties on their roster.

Move the one(s) who command the most value, yield the highest profit = accelerate improving total level of talent on this team.

Then from what is left over, with more talent to work with, then, trade this one or that one for balance.

That would be better than trying to force a square in a round peg, etc.

As for DG, he deserves his NMC.
Is it 100% in stone he won't consider to go anywhere else?

I get he might not want to go to Edm, or deal with Torts, among other destinations.
But are we sure he would 111% rule out Toronto, Ottawa; or a couple of the elite teams?

As long as the number is not totally insane and in a worse case scenario can be flipped, re-sign Stralman.

Try to develop McIlrath for both use and/or trade value. Dumping prematurely would be major stupid. We are projecting him 3 pair, stay at home, to start.

Should be able to manage something.
And I think we have to push the envelope.
I know more than most of you would, but at least until we catch up on talent we hafta.
So, e.g., yes, we move a guy, we trust Connor Allen to step up.

We should have done the same with Miller; instead we had to suffer Taylor Pyatt for most the year.

 

[bernmeister]

Yeah, I feel as though Stralman's numbers don't do his overall game justice. He's not much of a factor in the offensive zone, but he's a huge part of the transition game with his skating and puck moving skills.

It's pretty weird how he's completely transformed his game. I remember when he was brought in, he was thought of as a one-dimensional PP specialist. Now, he's a defensively oriented guy.



His contract is not as large as he is, and Winnipeg is absolutely LOADED at right D. I don't think Buff is long for the Jets, IMO, with Trouba and Bogosian already there. They also have a very good offensive defenseman in their farm system in Josh Morrissey.



Agreed 100%. Stralman and Niskanen are pretty similar players, IMO. I think Stralman would be a LOT more productive in terms of point scoring were he playing in the position Niskanen is. Niskanen has become a very good player, though, and, ideally, he fits in. Not at 6 years, $5.5M per, though.

Concur w/bold.
Should be looking for guys like Morrissey, not Buf.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

What does this team need that is possible to get?

 

[I Eat Crow]

I'm very curious to see who will be bought out this summer. Last round of compliance buyouts. This team will need another 2/3 center to presumably replace Richards. The UFA crop is weak this year. Ideally I'd like another top 9 right handed forward, but it's not the end of the world.

Hagelin had an awful game tonight. He's the first guy I'm trading to upgrade elsewhere. To build a perennial winner you need young talent supplementing the experienced dogs. Jim Nill took the bull by the horns and traded an out of favor Eriksson, an NHL ready prospect in Reilly Smith and a couple of B prospects in Joe Morrow and Mark Fraser for Seguin and Rich Peverley. I thought both teams won that trade at the time, but I'm starting to think Dallas is going to come out ahead.

Nail Yakupov being available is the worst kept secret in the NHL. I don't have a problem with the Nash and MSL trades, as trades involving elite talent should be done and questions be asked later. Edmonton wants defense if they're trading Yakupov. Would they be interested in a package around Hagelin and Kevin Klein? MSL isn't going to score at a point per game clip forever, but I do think he can be like Teemu and play for another 5 years well into his 40's and be an effective player.

Just thinking aloud here. If elite talent is available, make the deal and ask questions later.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

I'm very curious to see who will be bought out this summer. Last round of compliance buyouts. This team will need another 2/3 center to presumably replace Richards. The UFA crop is weak this year. Ideally I'd like another top 9 right handed forward, but it's not the end of the world.

Hagelin had an awful game tonight. He's the first guy I'm trading to upgrade elsewhere. To build a perennial winner you need young talent supplementing the experienced dogs. Jim Nill took the bull by the horns and traded an out of favor Eriksson, an NHL ready prospect in Reilly Smith and a couple of B prospects in Joe Morrow and Mark Fraser for Seguin and Rich Peverley. I thought both teams won that trade at the time, but I'm starting to think Dallas is going to come out ahead.

Nail Yakupov being available is the worst kept secret in the NHL. I don't have a problem with the Nash and MSL trades, as trades involving elite talent should be done and questions be asked later. Edmonton wants defense if they're trading Yakupov. Would they be interested in a package around Hagelin and Kevin Klein? MSL isn't going to score at a point per game clip forever, but I do think he can be like Teemu and play for another 5 years well into his 40's and be an effective player.

Just thinking aloud here. If elite talent is available, make the deal and ask questions later.

Lol, I wish. More like Hagelin and Staal.

 

[bernmeister]

I'm very curious to see who will be bought out this summer. Last round of compliance buyouts. This team will need another 2/3 center to presumably replace Richards. The UFA crop is weak this year. Ideally I'd like another top 9 right handed forward, but it's not the end of the world.

Hagelin had an awful game tonight. He's the first guy I'm trading to upgrade elsewhere. To build a perennial winner you need young talent supplementing the experienced dogs. Jim Nill took the bull by the horns and traded an out of favor Eriksson, an NHL ready prospect in Reilly Smith and a couple of B prospects in Joe Morrow and Mark Fraser for Seguin and Rich Peverley. I thought both teams won that trade at the time, but I'm starting to think Dallas is going to come out ahead.

Nail Yakupov being available is the worst kept secret in the NHL. I don't have a problem with the Nash and MSL trades, as trades involving elite talent should be done and questions be asked later. Edmonton wants defense if they're trading Yakupov. Would they be interested in a package around Hagelin and Kevin Klein? MSL isn't going to score at a point per game clip forever, but I do think he can be like Teemu and play for another 5 years well into his 40's and be an effective player.

Just thinking aloud here. If elite talent is available, make the deal and ask questions later.

Not speaking as to specifics of a Yak deal, my point is, be careful.
You start thinking outside the box and eschew coke for pepsi and try to make big deals with big names, you too can get slammed.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Do u think we could make a move for ovechkin? New gm in Washington plus slats loves skilled Russians. I wouldn't mind it he give us a quality scorer with a right hand shot. I think we could get him for relatively cheap and I'm sure the caps would keep some of the cap hit

 

[SA16]

Do u think we could make a move for ovechkin? New gm in Washington plus slats loves skilled Russians. I wouldn't mind it he give us a quality scorer with a right hand shot. I think we could get him for relatively cheap and I'm sure the caps would keep some of the cap hit

And that's the problem with the idea.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

And that's the problem with the idea.

We'll slats hasn't been shy about getting star players before... And if staal does want to leave it would be a good piece to move

 

[NYR Viper]

Who else will be bought out at the end of the year? Does Hossa have a shot to be bought out?

 

[Raspewtin]

Who else will be bought out at the end of the year? Does Hossa have a shot to be bought out?

Probably a 30% chance. Barely slowing down even in his old-ish age. Would take him on the Rangers in a heartbeat.

 

[GarretJoseph*]

Any deal that involves AO must include Brad Richards from a Rangers stand point.

To NYR - OVIE

To CAPS - B Richards + C Kreider + C Hagelin + D McIrath + M Staal + D BRASSARD + first round pick + cash (can you still trade money? is the limit 3mill?)

Caps obviously buy out Richards so the rest of the players in the package must justify trading OVIE.

Yeah thats a ton to give up. Would I do it? Maybe.

The only other way I see it happening is NASH + MCILRATH + KREIDER + PICK FOR OVIE.