Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Part 77

[Habs Halifax]

Anderson does not get a top prospect. I would expect a return close to what Toffoli for and only because some GMs love power forwards.

Anderson is worth more than Toffoli. How much more? Not sure cause of that GM and power forward narrative. It's either a good 1st or Grade A and other pieces. Might not be a Guhle Grade A but it's has to be a very good prospect of there is no deal.

We can maybe trade for shots at a Suzuki type players, but they very rarely turn into that in the end. Maybe Barron was one, but chances are greater that he is a few levels under.

I can't think of much such prospects from the last few years. Fox, Teravainen, Seth Jones, those are usually not available and are landed after giving up something more valuable than a package of assets

Yup. Like I said... I want a shot at getting a Suzuki type (pre NHL). Yes, your right, they don't all reach ceiling.

 

[Habs Halifax]

So you have the same shiny new toy syndrome most GM's have. Our chances of getting #2 overall isn't none but it's definitely slim.

Yup, it's slim but we are here talking about slim trades like usual.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Primeau played very little hockey in the past two season. Once they gave him the net in the AHL after is stint in MTL he constently progressed to a point where he was the best player in the AHL playoff. So not sure where you get your information but I would not agree with it at all.

Has for Romanov. He is doing fine. We still do not know what he can be in the NHL but what he is now is much better then what Slaf could be if he does not Pan out. That is the key with Slaf. the Ceiling in my opinion is really high. The floor is low and the chances he reaches the ceiling are average at best.

I'm aware of Primeau's development. Are you going to take a stance that he is going to be a NHL starter quality? And if he is a starter, is he a top 16 goalie or a bottom 16? I like him but I stand firm. He may not have as high as the value he has today.

I'm also aware of Romanov's development. I like him and Primeau just as much as you do.

There are no guarantees but there is probability and Slaf stands to be better than both. This is not a deep top 10 but it's not horrible either. Slaf is a type I would try to trade for depending on what it takes to get him. Risky? Not as much risk as you are implying.

 

[FF de Mars]

Anderson is worth more than Toffoli. How much more? Not sure cause of that GM and power forward narrative. It's either a good 1st or Grade A and other pieces. Might not be a Guhle Grade A but it's has to be a very good prospect of there is no deal.



Yup. Like I said... I want a shot at getting a Suzuki type (pre NHL). Yes, your right, they don't all reach ceiling.

You didn't make an argument, you just told how it were. It remains to be proven! Not so long ago, Anderson garnered Max Domi, and now you think he's worth a good 1st? What has Anderson done since he's been traded that upped his value that much? I'm with @RationalExpectations on this one.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You didn't make an argument, you just told how it were. It remains to be proven! Not so long ago, Anderson garnered Max Domi, and now you think he's worth a good 1st? What has Anderson done since he's been traded that upped his value that much? I'm with @RationalExpectations on this one.

Anderson value when traded was not like it is today. If he was not hurt the season before and had shoulder surgery, we would have not been able to trade Domi and a pick for him. Also, Domi at the time of trade had higher value than he has today. What happened after the trade matters so trying to use it today don't measure up.

GM's are calling the Habs over and over again. Just like Lehkonen. Don't ignore it. He's valued

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

You didn't make an argument, you just told how it were. It remains to be proven! Not so long ago, Anderson garnered Max Domi, and now you think he's worth a good 1st? What has Anderson done since he's been traded that upped his value that much? I'm with @RationalExpectations on this one.

Domi was 1 season removed from a 72 point season when he was traded, his value has significantly decreased since he trade but he definitely had value at the time.

Anderson's value was at its lowest when traded, he had dealt with a bunch of injuries, was coming off a 1 goal season and was wanting to be paid on a long-term deal despite that. Since the trade, he's played in 90% of the team's games, has put up over a 20 goal pace in those games. His value is also increased by the fact there are hardly any plays with his size who can score, skate and plays physical.

 

[FF de Mars]

Anderson value when traded was not like it is today. If he was not hurt the season before and had shoulder surgery, we would have not been able to trade Domi and a pick for him. Also, Domi at the time of trade had higher value than he has today. What happened after the trade matters so trying to use it today don't measure up.

GM's are calling the Habs over and over again. Just like Lehkonen. Don't ignore it. He's valued

Domi was 1 season removed from a 72 point season when he was traded, his value has significantly decreased since he trade but he definitely had value at the time.

Anderson's value was at its lowest when traded, he had dealt with a bunch of injuries, was coming off a 1 goal season and was wanting to be paid on a long-term deal despite that. Since the trade, he's played in 90% of the team's games, has put up over a 20 goal pace in those games. His value is also increased by the fact there are hardly any plays with his size who can score, skate and plays physical.

Sure, his value increased... from Max Domi's. It just hasn't increased as much as you think. As you stated he was 1 year removed from a 27 goals season; yet, other team's fans will point out he hasn't scored 20 goals since. Listen, I know his value increased because he was coming from an injury and 1 goal in 20 so games, but I think you need to find a middle ground to your expectations. Best is to keep Anderson, because his value is not at its highest. Anderson needs to put up 25 goals seasons on a regular basis to have the value you want him to have.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Sure, his value increased... from Max Domi's. It just hasn't increased as much as you think. As you stated he was 1 year removed from a 27 goals season; yet, other team's fans will point out he hasn't scored 20 goals since. Listen, I know his value increased because he was coming from an injury and 1 goal in 20 so games, but I think you need to find a middle ground to your expectations. Best is to keep Anderson, because his value is not at its highest. Anderson needs to put up 25 goals on a regular basis to have the value you want him to have.

Why do you say that and do you think it's possible it hasn't increased as much as YOU think?

6'3" power forward who score 25+ goals, skate like the wind and hit like a truck are a very rare commodity that literally every team in the NHL want and are looking for. Name one team that wouldn't want Anderson on their team...

 

[FF de Mars]

Why do you say that and do you think it's possible it hasn't increased as much as YOU think?

6'3" power forward who score 25+ goals, skate like the wind and hit like a truck are a very rare commodity that literally every team in the NHL want and are looking for. Name one team that wouldn't want Anderson on their team...

We are talking about his value, not about expectations. Anderson has to score 25 goals every season on a consistent basis to be considered a 25 goal scorer. As of now GMs will try to lowball Hugo based on potential. Hence his value is lower than the pink floyd high hopes you're all having. I wanted to trade Anderson too but I came to the realisation his time hasn't come to be traded. He's a better player than his value indicates.

 

[BaseballCoach]

You didn't make an argument, you just told how it were. It remains to be proven! Not so long ago, Anderson garnered Max Domi, and now you think he's worth a good 1st? What has Anderson done since he's been traded that upped his value that much? I'm with @RationalExpectations on this one.

Well, Domi's former 13OA rank plus his producton in the NHL over 5 seasons would have fetched a first round pick straight up at the time, so this is not a stretch at all.

Even today, Domi's lifetime points is 8th in his draft year.

 

[Sterling Archer]

We are talking about his value, not about expectations. Anderson has to score 25 goals every season on a consistent basis to be considered a 25 goal scorer. As of now GMs will try to lowball Hugo based on potential. Hence his value is lower than the pink floyd high hopes you're all having. I wanted to trade Anderson too but I came to the realisation his time hasn't come to be traded. He's a better player than his value indicates.

Disagree. If Habs were trying to unload him and trade partners limited, they'd play hardball. HuGo are not trying to move him and they're receiving calls for him. GM's, who for the most part, know when they're competing for a player so the "lowball" scenario isn't realistic if you're a GM trying to get Anderson. His value is much higher after the trade and after his playoffs last year when he scored clutch goals and was a key member of the offence by playing hard every shift.

You're undervaluing him by a large factor, which is fine. Plenty of crow to eat if he gets moved.

 

[FF de Mars]

Disagree. If Habs were trying to unload him and trade partners limited, they'd play hardball. HuGo are not trying to move him and they're receiving calls for him. GM's, who for the most part, know when they're competing for a player so the "lowball" scenario isn't realistic if you're a GM trying to get Anderson. His value is much higher after the trade and after his playoffs last year when he scored clutch goals and was a key member of the offence by playing hard every shift.

You're undervaluing him by a large factor, which is fine. Plenty of crow to eat if he gets moved.

He's not about to get moved, are you willing to eat crow if he's still on the team next year because his value is not good enough to garner an acceptable return? Obviously GMs are calling, because they're looking for a bargain. I made peace with having Anderson on the team, I think he'll prove to be a 25 goal scorer! There's a reason he was with Caufield and Suzuki when they hosted F1 driver Alonso for the Montréal GP, Chantal is telling us he's staying.

 

[BaseballCoach]

We are talking about his value, not about expectations. Anderson has to score 25 goals every season on a consistent basis to be considered a 25 goal scorer. As of now GMs will try to lowball Hugo based on potential. Hence his value is lower than the pink floyd high hopes you're all having. I wanted to trade Anderson too but I came to the realisation his time hasn't come to be traded. He's a better player than his value indicates.

Anderson is 8th from his draft year for lifetime goals. His size and speed are just gravy. Why could he not fetch a first round pick??

Now, to be clear, we are talking value here, not priority to trade. Josh is low on priority to trade in my books.

 

[FF de Mars]

Anderson is 8th from his draft year for lifetime goals. His size and speed are just gravy. Why could he not fetch a first round pick??

I'm arguing he's not worth a "good" 1st round pick, to me a good 1st round pick is a mid round pick, close to the top 10, which is what has been debated Anderson's value was. In my intitial post, I agreed with @RationalExpectations when he said he thought Anderson's value was similar to Toffoli's. Hence I think Anderson's value is a 1st round pick just not the kind of one we want, especially with all the picks we have and considering the fact our 2nd is basically a late 1st.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Sure, his value increased... from Max Domi's. It just hasn't increased as much as you think. As you stated he was 1 year removed from a 27 goals season; yet, other team's fans will point out he hasn't scored 20 goals since. Listen, I know his value increased because he was coming from an injury and 1 goal in 20 so games, but I think you need to find a middle ground to your expectations. Best is to keep Anderson, because his value is not at its highest. Anderson needs to put up 25 goals seasons on a regular basis to have the value you want him to have.

Why do you think GM's are calling about him over and over again?

 

[FF de Mars]

Why do you think GM's are calling about him over and over again?

That's what they do, they're waiting for him to say no until he says yes. Didn't Sakic call Hughes so many times he felt bad about saying no? If you trade him now you'll get something similar from what we gained from our deadlines trades, because Anderson is too unproven, the other team's GM would be gambling on his potential, and you never pay full price when you gamble on potential, like with prospects. I'd much rather Anderson suceeding on MSL's team than trading him for a lower return, that's my whole argument.

 

[Sterling Archer]

He's not about to get moved, are you willing to eat crow if he's still on the team next year because his value is not good enough to garner an acceptable return? Obviously GMs are calling, because they're looking for a bargain. I made peace with having Anderson on the team, I think he'll prove to be a 25 goal scorer! There's a reason he was with Caufield and Suzuki when they hosted F1 driver Alonso for the Montréal GP, Chantal is telling us he's staying.

I’m not saying I want him moved nor do I want him moved. He’s an important piece and the mould Habs are trying to build. If he doesn’t get moved, it’s not necessarily because the offers were all lowballs but not high enough or pieces not what Habs were looking for.

In any case, I agree he’s a 25+ goal scorer and important part of the team, hence he requires a requisite high return.

 

[Habs Halifax]

That's what they do, they're waiting for him to say no until he says yes. Didn't Sakic call Hughes so many times he felt bad about saying no? If you trade him now you'll get something similar from what we gained from our deadlines trades, because Anderson is too unproven, the other team's GM would be gambling on his potential, and you never pay full price when you gamble on potential, like with prospects. I'd much rather Anderson suceeding on MSL's team than trading him for a lower return, that's my whole argument.

That's what they do for players that have value on the ice. That's the point.

 

[FF de Mars]

That's what they do for players that have value on the ice. That's the point.

He has value, just not the type of value you want.

 

[Wats]

Why do you say that and do you think it's possible it hasn't increased as much as YOU think?

6'3" power forward who score 25+ goals, skate like the wind and hit like a truck are a very rare commodity that literally every team in the NHL want and are looking for. Name one team that wouldn't want Anderson on their team...

Except Anderson has 37goals/60 points in last 3 seasons over 147 games with a -43. Even with just Montreal, if we just look at prorated numbers over 82 games (something he is unlikely to get close to based on injury history):

Montreal Career prorated:
82 games
24 goals
38 points
-24
187 shots
198 hits
16:53 TOI

Columbus Career Year 2018/19:
82 games
27 goals
47 points
+25
230 shots
214 hits
17:01 TOI


He's not a bad player, but his value likely isn't that much different to when he was acquired. Reason? He has never reached the level of play at age 24 that got him his 5.5M long term cap hit. He's never healthy anymore and getting older. Look at the shots/game and the fact he led his Jackets team in +/- by a lot. We do not have that Columbus Anderson, he might never come back due to all the injuries.

This is like the Shaw situation (trade/2016 draft decisions set this franchise back years), Bergevin luckily moved him before it was too late. IMO it would be wise to maximize Anderson's value before he breaks down further. Not give for free, but get something that will help the team build.

 

[schwang26]

Anderson value when traded was not like it is today. If he was not hurt the season before and had shoulder surgery, we would have not been able to trade Domi and a pick for him. Also, Domi at the time of trade had higher value than he has today. What happened after the trade matters so trying to use it today don't measure up.

GM's are calling the Habs over and over again. Just like Lehkonen. Don't ignore it. He's valued

I've read some articles suggesting the Habs would want Bourgeaut or Pelletier (Edm and Cal respectively) for Anderson. I'm not adverse to trading him for an A level prospect, but my god! Giving up your only big, aggressive forward? They're already a pretty small team. The biggest guy would be Armia and he's not in the same class. After that, I think it's Poehling at 6'2. Even the D will be pretty small next year. They have no size coming up either. At least on forward.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

We are talking about his value, not about expectations. Anderson has to score 25 goals every season on a consistent basis to be considered a 25 goal scorer. As of now GMs will try to lowball Hugo based on potential. Hence his value is lower than the pink floyd high hopes you're all having. I wanted to trade Anderson too but I came to the realisation his time hasn't come to be traded. He's a better player than his value indicates.

He is what he is at his age. He’s more likely to get injured and his value plummets tha raising his stock.

 

[HomeAndHome]

Is Vegas still right up to the cap after the Dadonov/Weber trade? I've seen a few posts about wanting to get bigger, there's a couple guys in Vegas who are big and need contracts (RFAs).

Nicholas Roy and Nicolas Hague could be good targets, both at or under 25 yrs old and over 6'4". Vegas could use some draft picks as well, which MTL have an abundance of.

Brett Howden could be interesting too, left shot 6'3", under 25, RFA.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

Is Vegas still right up to the cap after the Dadonov/Weber trade? I've seen a few posts about wanting to get bigger, there's a couple guys in Vegas who are big and need contracts (RFAs).

Nicholas Roy and Nicolas Hague could be good targets, both at or under 25 yrs old and over 6'4". Vegas could use some draft picks as well, which MTL have an abundance of.

Brett Howden could be interesting too, LD 6'3", under 25, RFA.

Brett Howden is a forward and he’s awful.

 

[HomeAndHome]

Brett Howden is a forward and he’s awful.

Yes you're right, I meant to say left shot, which would pair well with our right shot centers Suzuki and Wright .

I haven't watched him very much so was just testing the waters here.