Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Part 61

[DAChampion]

Alexis Lafrenière, Braden Schneider & the Ranger 2023 1st round pick as a historic move is a bad example. This is about money and if Molson can still run a profit after a substantial retention.

Don't waste your time anymore. It's an idea I personally would approach Molson with if we were able to get the futures we want from it.

It's weird to see people concerned with Molson's "profit".

The franchise has more than doubled in value since he bought it, and the Habs are no doubt extremely profitable now.

 

[JoelWarlord]

If Price is going into retirement in three years then that is all the more reason for the Habs to trade him now while he still has value.

Not if we're retaining half his salary to do so. If Price goes on LTIR our salary retention doesn't go away. Price's contract doesn't matter one bit for the Habs over the next 3 seasons. Chiarot and Toffoli will be easy to trade and that gives us more than enough flexibility, Drouin is gone after next year, Hoffman/Armia will be much easier to trade later on in their deals, etc. His contract becomes a problem 4-5 years from now and with Price's injury history at age 34 there is no way I want to lock in a 5.25Mx5 cap hit on him when there's a very high chance he's retired within 3 years.

Another team is going to have to make it really worth our while to eat that much guaranteed money and I don't think a late 1st plus another team's Poehling/Ylonen is enough. It would have to be something pretty special to make it worth doing IMO.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's weird to see people concerned with Molson's "profit".

The franchise has more than doubled in value since he bought it, and the Habs are no doubt extremely profitable now.

Yeah, especially when you see a post where it indicates Molson has to write a $51M check. It's not like that and the yearly numbers which I already posted (after retention) could be manageable and it's up to Molson to decide on the yearly profits he would like.

What some people don't realize is Molson made a shit load when we had $8M - $10M of unused cap space for 2+ years after we let Markov and Radulov walk. And last year we were up against the cap and 22nd (+/-) in the league in terms of "highest actual salaries". The context is deep and it does take a lot of research and preparation to present this type of idea to Molson. It is a business yes. That is correct. But if we can get valuable futures and still run profits after retention, what's stopping us? Molson said he is not afraid of anything. So yeah, it's a very tough decision and would be a historic move but I don't see problems if we get futures that accelerate our rebuild and we still run profits.

And when we say "up to 50% retention", it could end up less with Gallagher and Petry and more with Price where it ends up 35% in the end. Some people man like to nit pick

 

[Kwikwi]

I personally think Gallagher's contract is the hardest to move at full AAV or very close to the difficulty of moving Price at full AAV.

Gallagher should be making the same as Atkinson and the bad news is Gallagher is not trending well after Danault left. His hard work and energy on every shift reputation can only go so far. However, the story changes if we were to retain down to $4.5M or $4M

Atkinson was just traded with 4 years left (age 32-35) for Voracek who had 3 years left. Blue Jackets took the cap hit difference. If you think we can move Gallagher, think along the lines of that trade. Same age with similar term left

Wish LAK would reunite them but the cap space is tricky. Even with Brown gone

 

[417]

Alexis Lafrenière, Braden Schneider & the Ranger 2023 1st round pick as a historic move is a bad example. This is about money and if Molson can still run a profit after a substantial retention.

Don't waste your time anymore. It's an idea I personally would approach Molson with if we were able to get the futures we want from it.

Until you hear my masterplan lol

 

[Habs Halifax]

Is it just me or does he not actually answer any question lol. the life of an ‘insider’

He's wise. Come out with an article people will read and say little in context cause it will back fire on you with the nit picking fans. Kind of like trying to have a deep context trade idea on HF boards. The more details you provide, the more the belittle ones come out to play. Say little and be vague and you are a HF board hero

 

[Habs Halifax]

Until you hear my masterplan lol

Humor is good after a disagreement. Tones it down a little. I like it.

 

[417]

He's wise. Come out with an article people will read and say little in context cause it will back fire on you with the nit picking fans. Kind of like trying to have a deep context trade idea on HF boards. The more details you provide, the more the belittle ones come out to play. Say little and be vague and you are a HF board hero

Good article...the most important part of the Price portion for me is this.

"If you’re Gorton, and you’re willing to do that, the rest of that package needs to be more considerable than both teams are probably willing to offer. You don’t want your first move running this team to be trading the franchise goaltender for a just decent return while absorbing half his contract and taking on someone else’s."

I think we both agree on this @Habs Halifax

 

[417]

Humor is good after a disagreement. Tones it down a little. I like it.

No disagreement...just different points of view, as long as the respect remains constant throughout, which I believe it has.

All is good. I've told you, I don't take a lot personally!

Cheers!

 

[Habs Halifax]

Good article...the most important part of the Price portion for me is this.

"If you’re Gorton, and you’re willing to do that, the rest of that package needs to be more considerable than both teams are probably willing to offer. You don’t want your first move running this team to be trading the franchise goaltender for a just decent return while absorbing half his contract and taking on someone else’s."

I think we both agree on this @Habs Halifax

How deep we go with the retention and how deep that other team goes with returning the futures we want is tough business for sure. All I know is that if we rebuild, we have to be prepared to make those tough decisions cause there is a shit load of contracts in place. It's much deeper than the Leafs liquidating Kessel and Phaneuf in trades so they have a new road that leads to #1OA pick.

A lot of rebuild talk and as you know, I'm all over it. It's the right time with new management IMO. But we don't even know what the long term plan is yet. I can only imagine what HF boards looks like if Gorton/New GM don't rebuild and do another Reset/Retool.

 

[sampollock]

It's not simple. Talking about it a lot does not mean it's simple.

It might not make sense to you yes. I'm not trying to spin back false narratives back at you for it either. There was one part where I said you are not wrong, it's a business.

417 does research !

 

[417]

417 is always right

 

[Hins77]

Retaining 50% on Price doesn't make any sense to me unless the offer is exceptional. I'm not throwing 5.25M into a black hole for 5 years and restricting my retain slots to solve a contender's goaltending problems for the sake of a late 1st and someone else's Ryan Poehling. No thanks.

The problem is you still need to pay 2 goalies on top of the retained 5.25M. If you think Primeau is the goalie of the future he's going to cost 5M in 2-3 years and you'll still need a backup who costs around 3M. At that point you're spending 13M total between Price retention and a Primeau+Backup tandem, another team is going to have to really make it worth our while to not just spend 13-15 on a Primeau/Price tandem instead. Price is overpaid but he's still a very capable NHL starting goalie. That's without even getting into the fact that the odds are pretty high he only plays 2-3 more years and then LTIR retires anyway.

Same with Petry, he's 25 games removed from being a high end top pair RHD making 6.25M. Why am I eating half of that salary to move him for a 1st and a B prospect? Pay up or we're perfectly happy to keep him and try our luck selling him next year, and I'm perfectly comfortable taking the risk that you end up eating the contract. Gallagher easily has enough value to move him without retaining too, so again, you need to make it worth it to burn a retain slot and eat a ton of money for 5 more years.

Totally. Many people here wants to retain gally, price, petry at 50% of their salary during their entire contract. I think they don’t know whats this is afford . Price retained on 5 years at 50% should return something around a first pick and 2 grade A prospect. You want one of the best goalie of the league at the cheapest price for 3 good years? Pay for it. I won’t give it for only a first and a prospect. If a gm want to pay only a first. Then, There is no retain . This team is shit right now, but can perform like a good playoff team in 2 years only. There is good team like bolts, penguins who selected early in draft and going well, but there is also phoenix, edmonton, buffalo wich they still suck..

 

[417]

How deep we go with the retention and how deep that other team goes with returning the futures we want is tough business for sure. All I know is that if we rebuild, we have to be prepared to make those tough decisions cause there is a shit load of contracts in place. It's much deeper than the Leafs liquidating Kessel and Phaneuf in trades so they have a new road that leads to #1OA pick.

A lot of rebuild talk and as you know, I'm all over it. It's the right time with new management IMO. But we don't even know what the long term plan is yet. I can only imagine what HF boards looks like if Gorton/New GM don't rebuild and do another Reset/Retool.

Agreed...I just find there's way too much rigidity in terms of how people think a rebuild can be successful.

Or, too much focus on one aspect of it (the losing).

But I suppose this is just a reflection of the exciting times we have ahead of us over the coming months.

 

[Habs Halifax]

417 does research !

$51M check was not enough research . Can you leave us alone... All you have done now is prolong our standstill of opinions. .
Come on 417... lets go at this again (Joking)...

 

[DiglettDangles]

If Price is going into retirement in three years then that is all the more reason for the Habs to trade him now while he still has value.

I don't think you get it - the value of assets you're tentatively getting for Price is offset by the salary retention, and anything more than ~$2.5M isn't worth it.
I have no problem with Price LTIRetiring as a Hab in 2 years without returning a single pick, his contract off the books is as big a gift as a few prospects and a $5M handicap.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Agreed...I just find there's way too much rigidity in terms of how people think a rebuild can be successful.

Or, too much focus on one aspect of it (the losing).

But I suppose this is just a reflection of the exciting times we have ahead of us over the coming months.

Both Exciting and Nervous times IMO. You already know what I would "try"

 

[417]

Retaining 50% on Price doesn't make any sense to me unless the offer is exceptional. I'm not throwing 5.25M into a black hole for 5 years and restricting my retain slots to solve a contender's goaltending problems for the sake of a late 1st and someone else's Ryan Poehling. No thanks.

Neither is the Owner lol

The problem is you still need to pay 2 goalies on top of the retained 5.25M. If you think Primeau is the goalie of the future he's going to cost 5M in 2-3 years and you'll still need a backup who costs around 3M. At that point you're spending 13M total between Price retention and a Primeau+Backup tandem, another team is going to have to really make it worth our while to not just spend 13-15 on a Primeau/Price tandem instead. Price is overpaid but he's still a very capable NHL starting goalie. That's without even getting into the fact that the odds are pretty high he only plays 2-3 more years and then LTIR retires anyway.

Not to mention that Price will have to be load managed for the rest of his career, however long that is.

Same with Petry, he's 25 games removed from being a high end top pair RHD making 6.25M. Why am I eating half of that salary to move him for a 1st and a B prospect? Pay up or we're perfectly happy to keep him and try our luck selling him next year, and I'm perfectly comfortable taking the risk that you end up eating the contract. Gallagher easily has enough value to move him without retaining too, so again, you need to make it worth it to burn a retain slot and eat a ton of money for 5 more years.

Brought this up yesterday...27 games games of poor play this season seemed to have given everyone amnesia.

I don't get the desperation in wanting to get rid of him.

Also, if another team is willing to pay what it would cost to make that kind of retention worth it...

I'd be asking myself if i'm making the right move.

 

[417]

It's weird to see people concerned with Molson's "profit".

The franchise has more than doubled in value since he bought it, and the Habs are no doubt extremely profitable now.

You don't get it.

I'M not concerned.

But i'm sure HE is.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't think you get it - the value of assets you're tentatively getting for Price is offset by the salary retention, and anything more than ~$2.5M isn't worth it.
I have no problem with Price LTIRetiring as a Hab in 2 years without returning a single pick, his contract off the books is as big a gift as a few prospects and a $5M handicap.

The value you don't get is we increase our probability to get top 5 lottery picks for 3 drafts in a row by moving Price, Gallagher, Petry. We get the best futures we can and retain the most Molson can stomach. It's called an accelerated rebuild that starts on a very strong draft power foundation for more than one draft.

Do you think the Leafs were worried about Kessel winning cups with the Pens and how they may have lost the value trade? It was deeper in context and a big part of it was to have a new core and not have guys like Kessel and Phaneuf around as disgruntled distractions while you are trying to develop youth who are learning on the job.

If you want a rebuild, do it right. Do don't do a half ass job at it. Why? Cause you exit that rebuild as another bubble playoff team and you reduce your chance at a legit contender for several years. If the Habs decide to rebuild, very difficult decisions need to be made. Reality

 

[GrandBison]

Neither is the Owner lol


Not to mention that Price will have to be load managed for the rest of his career, however long that is.


Brought this up yesterday...27 games games of poor play this season seemed to have given everyone amnesia.

I don't get the desperation in wanting to get rid of him.

Also, if another team is willing to pay what it would cost to make that kind of retention worth it...

I'd be asking myself if i'm making the right move.

I think we should wait and see with both Gallagher and Petry. A full summer should help them a lot. Unless there is some crazy offer on the table.

 

[Mandalorian]

Koskinen just called out Oilers offense. He is clearly not part of the team's futur plan. Things are going to change in Edmonton, they will need a goaltender and quick.

It's time we capitalize on their distress and make a good hockey trade including Allen or Price.

 

[The Great Weal]

Koskinen just called out Oilers offense. He is clearly not part of the team's futur plan. Things are going to change in Edmonton, they will need a goaltender and quick.

It's time we capitalize on their distress and make a good hockey trade including Allen or Price.

Allen and Chiarot for 1st, Koskinen, and Bourgault

 

[Mandalorian]

Allen and Chiarot for 1st, Koskinen, and Lavoie

Change Lavoie for Petrov and I'm in.

 

[DAChampion]

Not if we're retaining half his salary to do so. If Price goes on LTIR our salary retention doesn't go away.

Are you 100% sure of that? If true then that is a valid counterargument.