Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Part 61

[vokiel]

Allen and Chiarot for 1st, Koskinen, and Lavoie

Why don't you try posting that on the Edmonton board?

 

[DAChampion]

You don't get it.

I'M not concerned.

But i'm sure HE is.

Molson is extremely rich and has a license to print money. He's not concerned about a short term loss of a few million, as most of us wouldn't be of we lost a $20 bill. Life will go on.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Retaining 50% on Price doesn't make any sense to me unless the offer is exceptional. I'm not throwing 5.25M into a black hole for 5 years and restricting my retain slots to solve a contender's goaltending problems for the sake of a late 1st and someone else's Ryan Poehling. No thanks.

The problem is you still need to pay 2 goalies on top of the retained 5.25M. If you think Primeau is the goalie of the future he's going to cost 5M in 2-3 years and you'll still need a backup who costs around 3M. At that point you're spending 13M total between Price retention and a Primeau+Backup tandem, another team is going to have to really make it worth our while to not just spend 13-15 on a Primeau/Price tandem instead. Price is overpaid but he's still a very capable NHL starting goalie. That's without even getting into the fact that the odds are pretty high he only plays 2-3 more years and then LTIR retires anyway.

Same with Petry, he's 25 games removed from being a high end top pair RHD making 6.25M. Why am I eating half of that salary to move him for a 1st and a B prospect? Pay up or we're perfectly happy to keep him and try our luck selling him next year, and I'm perfectly comfortable taking the risk that you end up eating the contract. Gallagher easily has enough value to move him without retaining too, so again, you need to make it worth it to burn a retain slot and eat a ton of money for 5 more years.

The idea is to retain up to 50% on all 3 but it might settle at 35% in the end (for example). And no, we not going to just liquidate them in trade value. Retention memo sent out and the phone rings off the wall. Create traffic flow and plant the seed in other GM's head on how that player looks on their roster at a very good cap hit. Then hammer them on futures and go from there. It may fall through on several accounts but I bet you other GM's looking for upgrades start to get attached to the idea of that player on their team with a very good cap hit. We tell them our price and maybe then move on to other options that also fail and they circle back.

A proper rebuild that turns us into a contender in 3-5 years +, requires a very deep complex plan. A plan that would have several different possible scenarios and lets not ignore that we have a boat load of contracts to move. Tough decisions would have to be made no doubt

 

[DAChampion]

Why don't you try posting that on the Edmonton board?

Edmonton fans also used to write posts saying that each of Hall, Nugent Hopkins, Yakupov, Eberle, and 1sts were untouchables.

 

[417]

Molson is extremely rich and has a license to print money. He's not concerned about a short term loss of a few million, as most of us wouldn't be of we lost a $20 bill. Life will go on.

I'm going to assume this post is a joke.

 

[vokiel]

Edmonton fans also used to write posts saying that each of Hall, Nugent Hopkins, Yakupov, Eberle, and 1sts were untouchables.

Yes, it's not because there's some idiot kids on one board that we have to mimic them with more stupid proposals that I've ever seen.

All those EDM proposals we have here all look like trolling to me, but don't worry it's all good laughs

but hum... feel free to troll them lol

 

[DAChampion]

I'm going to assume this post is a joke.

It's a small exaggeration.

You can run the numbers.

 

[26Mats]

To COL: Cary Price (50% retained)

To MTL: Newhook

 

[Mandalorian]

Does Molson really lose money by retaining tho?

If Habs retain on Price, Petry and Gallagher and fill the holes they left with ELC contract like Primeau, Ghule and Ylonen, Molson actually saves money by moving these contracts.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

To COL: Cary Price (50% retained)

To MTL: Newhook (+Girard?)

Colorado says no

 

[26Mats]

Why don't you try posting that on the Edmonton board?

Allen and Chiarot for 1st, Koskinen, and Lavoie

I'd take Yamamoto and a 1st if the Oilers are ready to give up on Yamamoto.

 

[26Mats]

Colorado says no

If they want to say no to a cup or two, that's up to them.

 

[DAChampion]

Yes, it's not because there's some idiot kids on one board that we have to mimic them with more stupid proposals that I've ever seen.

All those EDM proposals we have here all look like trolling to me, but don't worry it's all good laughs

Giving Price to Edmonton transitions them from bubble team to Cup contenders, so yes that should bring back a lot of trade value.

Think Nieuwendyk for Iginla, Chris Pronger for multiple 1st rounders, etc.

 

[vokiel]

Giving Price to Edmonton transitions them from bubble team to Cup contenders, so yes that should bring back a lot of trade value.

Think Nieuwendyk for Iginla, Chris Pronger for multiple 1st rounders, etc.

Do the marketing for the people who should care, so make those arguments on the EDM board.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

If they want to say no to a cup or two, that's up to them.

Price is not even practicing with his teammates.
Colorado won't give Girard
Newhook perhaps
They also gotta trade a goalie if they acquire price.
If we d ont get an extra first pick at 50% retained , its an useless trade.

We could also trade Allen

 

[26Mats]

Price is not even practicing with his teammates.
Colorado won't give Girard
Newhook perhaps
They also gotta trade a goalie if they acquire price.
If we d ont get an extra first pick at 50% retained , its an useless trade.

We could also trade Allen

Getting Newhook is a useless trade?

 

[Mandalorian]

I might be missing something here, but if Molson retains 33% on Gallagher this year, 40% on Price next season and 33% on Jeff Petry at 2023-2024.

Total salary wise, thats:
Gallagher: 36.5M$ left * 0.66 = 24.09M$ saved
Price: 31.25M$ left at that point * 0.6 = 18.75M$
Petry: 12.5M$ * 0.66 = 8.25M$

For a total of around 51M$ saved in a 5 year span.
For around 10M$ saved each season, which should be more than enough to be able to cover Primeau's rest of ELC and futur bridge, plus ELC on D and wing. Gives you some money to bridge Romanov, Poehling and Caufield too.

 

[Mandalorian]

Getting Newhook is a useless trade?

I don't think Colorado gives Newhook and Girard for Price, but if they did, that would be fair value. It's basically like getting two first round pick in their D+5 and D+3 year already developed instead of hoping the late 1st round pick we would get turns out as good as those player (Newhook it's still early to tell, but so far he has been good).

 

[JoelWarlord]

Are you 100% sure of that? If true then that is a valid counterargument.

I'm almost certain that is the case. The LTIR mechanism doesn't actually wipe out the cap hit, it allows the team with the injured player to exceed the cap by an amount equal to what the injured player makes (there's more complexities of course but that's the summary). The logic is to allow you to replace an injured player with someone making about the same amount of money instead of operating under an effective 75M cap because of an injury.

If we trade Price away and he gets hurt there's no reason we'd get to remove the retained salary, we traded the guy and agreed to pay him 5.25M as part of our cap allocation. There's no reason that a player who is contracted to another team getting injured would allow Montreal to exceed the cap. If he completely retired I'm not sure how it would work, but there's no reason he would do that given his contract pays 7.5M/yr in real dollars right up to the end.

Totally. Many people here wants to retain gally, price, petry at 50% of their salary during their entire contract. I think they don’t know whats this is afford . Price retained on 5 years at 50% should return something around a first pick and 2 grade A prospect. You want one of the best goalie of the league at the cheapest price for 3 good years? Pay for it. I won’t give it for only a first and a prospect. If a gm want to pay only a first. Then, There is no retain .

Yep. Carey Price at 5.25M is an extremely valuable asset AND it forces us to take 5.25x5 of cap penalties. If another team wants us to do that for the sake of giving them Price at 5.25 it needs to be a very valuable deal for Montreal.

Neither is the Owner lol
Not to mention that Price will have to be load managed for the rest of his career, however long that is.

Yeah like, the thing we have to keep in mind is that the organization is perfectly happy to keep Price around as a tandem goalie with Primeau playing 30-45 games if the alternative is paying about the same money in aggregate to have a Primeau + generic backup tandem with a 5.25M cap penalty. Especially when they know his medical history and understand that there's a pretty high chance he goes on LTIR within 2-3 years.

Brought this up yesterday...27 games games of poor play this season seemed to have given everyone amnesia. I don't get the desperation in wanting to get rid of him. Also, if another team is willing to pay what it would cost to make that kind of retention worth it...
I'd be asking myself if i'm making the right move.

Agreed. I really just don't see the urgency on moving Petry. At his age I'm 100% open to moving him if a team is willing to pay the asset cost of a top pair RHD at 6.25M, but if all we're getting is a 1st and someone else's Poehling I think we just say no thanks and chalk this year up to a nightmare injury/covid/coaching/short offseason scenario and bank on him rebounding next year to be traded at the 2023 deadline.

In general I think there's been a bit too much overreaction to some of the "decline" for certain veteran players we've seen this year. Armia's paced for 15G/30P his entire career, I'm pretty unconvinced that he's just completely cooked and useless at 28. Petry was a legitimate #1 defenceman last year, again I just have a very tough time buying in to the idea that he's just completely washed up and went from being a stud #1D in July 2021 to being Sami Niku in October 2021 when there's been no visible decline in his skating or other physical tools.

Gallagher maybe we're seeing some accumulated wear and tear, but again I really just think the tap dancing on his grave is premature. It would be one thing if other players were at their normal standards but basically every player on the team but Lehkonen, Wideman, and Chiarot are heavily underperforming their career averages and it's just clearly been a complete nightmare season. Gallagher I think you want to trade in the offseason simply because it's otherwise hard to move 6.5 long term mid-season, but I wouldn't be rushing to do it for a 3rd just to dump the contract.

 

[JoelWarlord]

The idea is to retain up to 50% on all 3 but it might settle at 35% in the end (for example). And no, we not going to just liquidate them in trade value. Retention memo sent out and the phone rings off the wall. Create traffic flow and plant the seed in other GM's head on how that player looks on their roster at a very good cap hit. Then hammer them on futures and go from there. It may fall through on several accounts but I bet you other GM's looking for upgrades start to get attached to the idea of that player on their team with a very good cap hit. We tell them our price and maybe then move on to other options that also fail and they circle back.

Yeah I'm not flatly opposed to the idea of retaining at all, I just think the trade offers would have to be really significant to make it worth retaining half of Price's contract for 5 years, especially because as I mentioned we have a pretty good chance of just LTIRing him in a couple season. I'm not super interested in retaining on Gallagher or Petry because I just don't think there's a need to, and I'd rather keep those retention slots open to eat 50% on expiring rentals each year (or act as the go-between and retain 50% in a 3 way trade) while also not tying up 6M in dead cap long term. Again though, if retaining opens the door to a truly special trade I'm all for it, I just don't think that's strictly necessary on those guys to get something good in return.

A proper rebuild that turns us into a contender in 3-5 years +, requires a very deep complex plan. A plan that would have several different possible scenarios and lets not ignore that we have a boat load of contracts to move. Tough decisions would have to be made no doubt

We do have a lot of contracts to move but if we're entering a rebuild phase there's not a ton of urgency to do it since we don't need to be super cap efficient for a while. Chiarot is gone and Toffoli would be easy to move for a good return at any time, and those two contracts alone solve basically any short term cap problems. After that Drouin is gone after next year, so if eg. nobody is willing to take Hoffman's contract we're fine to just keep him and just run out the clock on that deal.

 

[sampollock]

hahahaha

 

[sampollock]

I'd take Yamamoto and a 1st if the Oilers are ready to give up on Yamamoto.

to small

 

[26Mats]

I don't think Colorado gives Newhook and Girard for Price, but if they did, that would be fair value. It's basically like getting two first round pick in their D+5 and D+3 year already developed instead of hoping the late 1st round pick we would get turns out as good as those player (Newhook it's still early to tell, but so far he has been good).

I'd take just Newhook, no Girard.

 

[26Mats]

to small

I don't think we're getting a top prospect for Chiarot. Getting Yamamoto and a 1st is similar to getting Gorges and a 1st for Rivet.

 

[salbutera]

Molson is extremely rich and has a license to print money. He's not concerned about a short term loss of a few million, as most of us wouldn't be of we lost a $20 bill. Life will go on.

Did he tell you that?

Remember the wealthy tend to be the stingiest - cue Warren Buffet who spends $2.95 on two sausage patties from McDonald’s, and then puts them together if the market is down in the morning, or splurges $3.17 on a bacon, egg and cheese biscuit If the markets up.

You don’t get or maintain wealth by being not concerned with losing money at anytime…