Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Part 61

[Habs Halifax]

Kypreos suggesting Price may shut down for the season as the rehabilitation isn't going well.

What is the context or source into Price's rehab not going well? Personally, I think they are taking their time cause this season is a mess and I don't know of any set backs? If there are set backs I'm not aware of, what are they?

 

[417]

Cause if it’s a rebuild, it usually involves the adding of a lot of futures and unloading expensive assets to create cap room. It’s tough to do that and expect to be competitive on the short term. What’s worse in our case, is that term was gifted to several mediocre assets on top of it all.
Not exclusively...it involves a whole lot of things that are just as important in the "rebuilding" as selling off expensive assets.

Remember when Bergevin was trying to build through the draft while making the playoffs? You have to choose a path. Expecting to implement the type of roster turnover that a rebuild suggests is not a two year affair typically.

Bergevin wasn't capable because he executed poorly...that doesn't mean it's the standard.

 

[417]

I certainly did not want to sign Petry to that contract. Petry is 34, and has 12 pro seasons under his belt. For all the reasons you've listed here, he might have some serious trade value. But that value is about as high as it's ever going to be. We can either get it, or risk getting nothing at all, as has been the habs' habit since Gainey.

Like I said, if there's a deal for Jeff Petry that makes sense...you pull the trigger.

But i'm not carrying 50% of his salary for a 27th overall pick and a B-level prospect.

No thank you

 

[Habs Halifax]

They had Chris freaking Pronger at the blue line in 2005-2006 went they went to the final, this change the game as far as which kind of goaltender you need to compete when you have a HHOF manning your defense.

That's a good conversation. I ponder about this one... Do we have a shot at beating Tampa with Hedman and their D last year but without Vasi in net? Maybe someone like Allen? We will never know but I'm curious about it

 

[417]

They had Chris freaking Pronger at the blue line in 2005-2006 went they went to the final, this change the game as far as which kind of goaltender you need to compete when you have a HHOF manning your defense.

Irrelevant to the point at hand.

Yes, they had Chris freaking Pronger.

Now they have Connor freaking McDavid and Leon freaking Draisaitl.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Like I said, if there's a deal for Jeff Petry that makes sense...you pull the trigger.

But i'm not carrying 50% of his salary for a 27th overall pick and a B-level prospect.

No thank you

Petry at 50% retention is $3.125M. Even with an off year, that is crazy good value for what Petry brings to the table. So yeah, we are not going to liquidate him for a late 1st and a B level prospect. In this case, maybe we only have to retain down to $5M to get the 1st and Grade A prospect. Hard to nail down but yeah, we are not liquidating them in value and with retention. No way

 

[417]

That's a good conversation. I ponder about this one... Do we have a shot at beating Tampa with Hedman and their D last year but without Vasi in net? Maybe someone like Allen? We will never know but I'm curious about it

100%..Vasilevski was the neutralizer no other team had to our Carey Price.

At least in terms of the teams the Habs faced.

Price >> Andersen
Price >> Hellybuck
Price >> Fleury
Vasilvelski > Price

BTW that's not to say that the only difference between both teams was simply goaltending...but the Habs were rolling in the playoffs last year, sometimes that's just how it goes. So I do think that for THAT series, the biggest difference is we had no answer for Vasilevski.

What we did to 3 other teams on our way to the Finals, got done to us over 5 games.

 

[Mandalorian]

That's a good conversation. I ponder about this one... Do we have a shot at beating Tampa with Hedman and their D last year but without Vasi in net? Maybe someone like Allen? We will never know but I'm curious about it

Pretty sure we do, since the only game Vasi wasn't stellar is the game we won against Tampa in the final. Removes the 2020-2021 Conne Smyth from this team and it's another game.

 

[Habs Halifax]

100%..Vasilevski was the neutralizer no other team had to our Carey Price.

At least in terms of the teams the Habs faced.

Price >> Andersen
Price >> Hellybuck
Price >> Fleury
Vasilvelski > Price

What is shocking to me is that heading into that series, I was afraid of their PP and offensive fire power. Turns out, they beat us at our own game... Goaltending, Team D, and Depth. I also thought we were out coached for the first time in the playoffs too.

Tampa's PP was over 30% or very high before the Habs. We shut them down. Point was on a tear before the Habs. We shut him down. Who would have thought?

Rutta scoring top corner on a screen shot? Come on man, give us a break! lol.

 

[Mandalorian]

Irrelevant to the point at hand.

Yes, they had Chris freaking Pronger.

Now they have Connor freaking McDavid and Leon freaking Draisaitl.

None of them play good defense, Pronger could cover up the fact that Roloson didn't play at his best in 2005-2006. McDavid and Draisatl don't care about protecting against high dangers chances in their own zone despite being the most used players by a fair amount.

Actually it's relevant to the point at hand. Edmonton's defense is their weakpoint this season, a 1B goaltender like Allen isn't moving the needle for them if they don't make other moves. They are going to need a 1A goaltender if they want to go far with this current roster into the playoff.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Like I said, if there's a deal for Jeff Petry that makes sense...you pull the trigger.

But i'm not carrying 50% of his salary for a 27th overall pick and a B-level prospect.

No thank you

50% retention is obviously not on the table, and unnecessary. But you either trade Petry, or you watch his value ride off into the sunset.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Panthers have the 2nd best winning percentage in the NHL. If they hold, their 1st would be a few picks before the Habs 2nd. That being said, I’d target one of their prospects, whether Denisenko or Lundell or maybe a younger player like Tippett over their 1st. If they’re only dangling a 1st, I’d imagine lower ranked teams will offer the same and be better for us unless it’s in addition to a prospect or a 2nd/3rd depending.

 

[Mandalorian]

Panthers have the 2nd best winning percentage in the NHL. If they hold, their 1st would be a few picks before the Habs 2nd. That being said, I’d target one of their prospects, whether Denisenko or Lundell or maybe a younger player like Tippett over their 1st. If they’re only dangling a 1st, I’d imagine lower ranked teams will offer the same and be better for us unless it’s in addition to a prospect or a 2nd/3rd depending.

Man, lower your expectation if you think Chiarot is fetching Lundell. He is a grade A prospect already having a great season in the NHL as a 20 years old rookie, big bodied too. I don't even think Florida would trade us Lundell for Ghule or Caufield straight up.

 

[417]

None of them play good defense, Pronger could cover up the fact that Roloson didn't play at his best in 2005-2006. McDavid and Draisatl don't care about protecting against high dangers chances in their own zone despite being the most used players by a fair amount.

What does this have to do with what I wrote?

I wasn't trying to draw a direct carbon copy parallel between the Oilers of 2021-22 and the Oilers of 2005-06.

I just pointed out that they don't need Hasek-like goaltending...just need someone to be solid and consistent, like Rolosson was for them on their run.

Actually it's relevant to the point at hand. Edmonton's defense is their weakpoint this season, a 1B goaltender like Allen isn't moving the needle for them if they don't make other moves. They are going to need a 1A goaltender if they want to go far with this current roster into the playoff.

No correct, probably not...but Allen's salary and presumably, lower cost of acquisition, allows them the flexibility to make those other moves.

 

[417]

50% retention is obviously not on the table, and unnecessary. But you either trade Petry, or you watch his value ride off into the sunset.

So he can bring no value to the younger Dmen that will be graduating to the NHL on the Habs in the next 1-2 years?

Nothing he can provide in terms of mentorship to Guhle or Harris or god forbid, Mailloux?

Or are we going going to hope these guys reach their ceilings playing with Sami Niku, Kale Clague & Corey Shueneman every night?

 

[Habs Halifax]

So he can bring no value to the younger Dmen that will be graduating to the NHL on the Habs in the next 1-2 years?

Nothing he can provide in terms of mentorship to Guhle or Harris or god forbid, Mailloux?

Or are we going going to hope these guys reach their ceilings playing with Sami Niku, Kale Clague & Corey Shueneman every night?

Not if he is stuck with us and disgruntled cause he signed thinking we would be a playoff team chasing a cup. Just look at his energy and attitude this year as proof. He's easily agitated which reveals he is not happy. If that drags on past this year, we have a distraction and like someone else says... you just watch his value fade away

I have no facts but my gut tells me all 3 of Price, Gallagher, and Petry will want out if we rebuild. Lets see if we even rebuild vs do a reset/retool. I bet you Price, Gallagher, and Petry have already talked amongst themselves about our direction

 

[NotProkofievian]

So he can bring no value to the younger Dmen that will be graduating to the NHL on the Habs in the next 1-2 years?

Nothing he can provide in terms of mentorship to Guhle or Harris or god forbid, Mailloux?

Or are we going going to hope these guys reach their ceilings playing with Sami Niku, Kale Clague & Corey Shueneman every night?

Yep. Guhle and Mailloux, especially Mailloux, shouldn't be in the NHL for another couple years anyways. Harris hasn't signed with us yet, and he probably needs some AHL time.

You can sign some other vet UFA D to bring the leadership and karaktère.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yep. Guhle and Mailloux, especially Mailloux, shouldn't be in the NHL for another couple years anyways. Harris hasn't signed with us yet, and he probably needs some AHL time.

You can sign some other vet UFA D to bring the leadership and karaktère.

Savard and Edmundson can fulfill that role. Maybe we are offered something for them down the road (maybe not). If their contracts expire with us, we can sign more of them types to provide vet leadership during development/rebuild years. It's not a huge problem

 

[Sterling Archer]

Man, lower your expectation if you think Chiarot is fetching Lundell. He is a grade A prospect already having a great season in the NHL as a 20 years old rookie, big bodied too. I don't even think Florida would trade us Lundell for Ghule or Caufield straight up.

Nothing wrong with asking. Doubt very much Habs will get him but crazier things have happened. Point was a 1st alone from Fla isn’t enough but you’re right, getting Lundell is reaching a little too high. A little self induced hopeium as all I have at this point man! :p

 

[NotProkofievian]

Savard and Edmundson can fulfill that role. Maybe we are offered something for them down the road (maybe not). If their contracts expire with us, we can sign more of them types to provide vet leadership during development/rebuild years. It's not a huge problem

Yep. Leadership is good, and necessary but it's cheap. How much did we pay for Papa Perry last year? That was a fantastic signing.

 

[Runner77]

Yep. Guhle and Mailloux, especially Mailloux, shouldn't be in the NHL for another couple years anyways. Harris hasn't signed with us yet, and he probably needs some AHL time.

You can sign some other vet UFA D to bring the leadership and karaktère.

Small point about Harris. Since he has the leverage, he’ll probably end up not doing time in the AHL even though I agree that he should go to the AHL first.

 

[417]

Not if he is stuck with us and disgruntled cause he signed thinking we would be a playoff team chasing a cup. Just look at his energy and attitude this year as proof. He's easily agitated which reveals he is not happy. If that drags on past this year, we have a distraction and like someone else says... you just watch his value fade away

I have no facts but my gut tells me all 3 of Price, Gallagher, and Petry will want out if we rebuild. Lets see if we even rebuild vs do a reset/retool. I bet you Price, Gallagher, and Petry have already talked amongst themselves about our direction

Only tank-needy fans are happy about how the season has gone one...frankly, I'd be disappointed if he wasn't agitated.

 

[417]

Yep. Guhle and Mailloux, especially Mailloux, shouldn't be in the NHL for another couple years anyways. Harris hasn't signed with us yet, and he probably needs some AHL time.

We'll see about Guhle, I think he's a year away from the NHL

Mailloux you're probably right but it's hard to say given he's such an unknown.

Harris? AHL?

Zero chance he plays in the AHL.

You can sign some other vet UFA D to bring the leadership and karaktère.

We can't act like these things don't matter though. It does.

 

[Mandalorian]

Nothing wrong with asking. Doubt very much Habs will get him but crazier things have happened. Point was a 1st alone from Fla isn’t enough but you’re right, getting Lundell is reaching a little too high. A little self induced hopeium as all I have at this point man! :p

Tippett might be a more realistic pick up and he could be an upgrade on Peohling/Evans as a 3c long term, making one of them expendable and a interesting trading assets to solidify our RD prospect pool. He would fit with this team long-term plans, I actually would prefer him than whatever late first round pick we could get from Florida next season.

 

[McGees]

That's a good conversation. I ponder about this one... Do we have a shot at beating Tampa with Hedman and their D last year but without Vasi in net? Maybe someone like Allen? We will never know but I'm curious about it

Or if Vasi had regular non inflated hulk sized pads, we will never know.