Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Part 61

[HuGort]

I don't know if this was already mentioned (probably), and I know this website is garbage, but they say that Edmundson mentioned to Gorton that he would like to be traded to a Western Team if possible to be closer to his dad (Cancer).

Hockey30 | Joel Edmundson veut se faire ÉCHANGER dans L'OUEST CANADIEN!!

Makes sense though

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Sure, but the Habs just did 3 years of aspiring to be competitive and even managed a Cinderella cup run. Now look where they are. The process is very different.



When does a hockey year start to you? Because there is a world of difference between making a rebuild decision and taking immediate steps before the draft and free agency as opposed to right before the trade deadline.

And they didn't make the playoffs in 2019-2020. The NHL was VERY clear that teams that didn't win the play-in tournament did not make the playoffs. They also weren't that competitive, they were pretty garbage outside of a few players.

And you're still ignoring how lucky they got.

I think the Habs can be a competitive non-playoff team in less than 4 years. I don't expect them to be a playoff team for a while though. And I'm not going to base my expectations based on situations where teams got luckier than most.



Coyotes? Sure. Sabres? No, they wanted to be competitive, they just ****ed up.

As for surviving, it depends on Molson TBH, he was excessively patient with Bergevin. I'd also point out that Gorton didn't survive the Rangers rebuild either, so I wouldn't be shocked if he didn't survive Montreal's, even if he does an excellent job. Because people are impatient.

Gorton didn't get fired due to results and Dolan is a notorious dunce.

 

[Runner77]

Makes sense though

99.9% of the stuff on that sham site is made up or ripped off without ever acknowledging sources. That site’s registered users spend more time slamming it than commenting its “reports”. If that site can attract advertising, then it proves that you can set up any garbage site unsupported by facts and you can make a living doing it. They must love the free advertising they get here.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I'm fairly confident Guhle will make it to the NHL...we'll see with Norlinder, Harris, Struble, Fairbrother, Xekaj and Mailloux.

Not to mention, that we don't know what moves in terms of trades or more draft picks that will happen between now and then.



Your opinion or evaluation of our prospect base, doesn't determine the timeline (and neither does mine mind you)...

In any case, I think it's absolutely ridiculous to think it can take up to 4-5 years for this team to be competitive...complete madness, no offense.

Its not the 90s anymore...you don't have to suck for years before you turn things around. If Gorton is the least bit competent, and I believe that he is, there's absolutely no reason why this team can't be in a position to compete in 2 years.

Hell if he plays this right, this team could be a playoff team as soon as next year and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.

Look at how quickly things turned around in New York while Gorton was there and they were even in worse shape than we were then.

I said Ahl and NHL for dman not in the system

 

[Sterling Archer]

Gorton didn't get fired due to results and Dolan is a notorious dunce.

He kind of did as Dolan told him he had to makes the playoffs and Tom Wilson didn’t help. Still, no doubting he built a hell of a team and Dolan is a dolt.

 

[417]

Sure, but the Habs just did 3 years of aspiring to be competitive and even managed a Cinderella cup run. Now look where they are. The process is very different.

I'm just saying...you gotta crawl before you walk.

Before I start talking about competing for a Cup, I want to see a team that's a playoff team.

When does a hockey year start to you? Because there is a world of difference between making a rebuild decision and taking immediate steps before the draft and free agency as opposed to right before the trade deadline.

As soon as the present one ends.

And they didn't make the playoffs in 2019-2020. The NHL was VERY clear that teams that didn't win the play-in tournament did not make the playoffs. They also weren't that competitive, they were pretty garbage outside of a few players.

I mean, i'm not going to get into a debate about a technicality...it's not even the crux of my argument.

Point was that within 2 years, the New York Rangers were competitive. It didn't take 5 years to be competitive again, frankly that timeline is completely out of whack.

I think the Habs can be a competitive non-playoff team in less than 4 years. I don't expect them to be a playoff team for a while though. And I'm not going to base my expectations based on situations where teams got luckier than most.

4 years before making the playoffs?

Again...if that's the case, Gorton will have failed miserably and we'll be talking about how Bergevin wasn't so bad afterall.

Coyotes? Sure. Sabres? No, they wanted to be competitive, they just ****ed up.

As for surviving, it depends on Molson TBH, he was excessively patient with Bergevin. I'd also point out that Gorton didn't survive the Rangers rebuild either, so I wouldn't be shocked if he didn't survive Montreal's, even if he does an excellent job. Because people are impatient.

Nah Gorton just got caught in the Jimmy Dolan express.

 

[417]

I said Ahl and NHL for dman not in the system

But why limit it to that when our best Dmen prospects aren't in the AHL?

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

But why limit it to that when our best Dmen prospects aren't in the AHL?

Because they are not coming in the next 2 seasons as saviors like you said you think we will need like 2 years to comeback up.

 

[417]

Because they are not coming in the next 2 seasons as saviors like you said you think we will need like 2 years to comeback up.

Ok...

First of all, NOWHERE did I call them saviours...absolutely not once. YOU said that.

Stop projecting your takes on to me.

Secondly, we don't need them to be saviours.

I disagreed with your take that we don't have good prospects or we lack depth...I think we've got a lot of prospect depth, that will get even deeper after this draft.

But they are lacking top end talent.

Fortunately, there's more than one way to acquire top end talent...and it's done exclusively done by sucking for 5 years.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I'm just saying...you gotta crawl before you walk.

Before I start talking about competing for a Cup, I want to see a team that's a playoff team.

That's fine, but this kind of contradicts your playoff team expectations.

As soon as the present one ends.

So, to be clear, there's no difference between a teams intentions in late spring/early summer and the trade deadline. That if Gorton announces a rebuild in 2022 before making seller trades, it would be the same as Bergevin announcing a rebuild and making moves before the 2021 draft.

I mean, i'm not going to get into a debate about a technicality...it's not even the crux of my argument.

Point was that within 2 years, the New York Rangers were competitive. It didn't take 5 years to be competitive again, frankly that timeline is completely out of whack.

Its not really a technicality.

And did you even watch them in 2019-2020? They weren't competitive. If that's you're standard of competitive, then I expect the Habs could be competitive next season if they wanted to. Progression isn't linear.

4 years before making the playoffs?

Again...if that's the case, Gorton will have failed miserably and we'll be talking about how Bergevin wasn't so bad afterall.

Some might. I wont unless there's better justification. But some people on here are already complaining, so that's not a high bar to clear.

Nah Gorton just got caught in the Jimmy Dolan express.

Right, but if we accept your timeline definitions, had he hypothetically stayed on and the Rangers missed the playoffs this season due to something outside of their control (which has happened to better teams), it would mean that Gorton failed miserably.

 

[417]

That's fine, but this kind of contradicts your playoff team expectations.

No it really doesn't...I’m also not sure I actually spoke about what expectations I have for them.

So, to be clear, there's no difference between a teams intentions in late spring/early summer and the trade deadline. That if Gorton announces a rebuild in 2022 before making seller trades, it would be the same as Bergevin announcing a rebuild and making moves before the 2021 draft.

I'm not talking about other teams...i'm talking SPECIFICALLY about the Rangers when they announced their rebuild.

You said it was June 2017, presumably after they were eliminated...I pointed too February 2018, when that famous letter was sent out.

We're talking about 8 months here, 3 of those months are summer months.

Soooo...

Its not really a technicality.

And did you even watch them in 2019-2020? They weren't competitive. If that's you're standard of competitive, then I expect the Habs could be competitive next season if they wanted to. Progression isn't linear.

Yeah, don't agree here but don't really care to debate that...you're entitled to think what you want.

Some might. I wont unless there's better justification. But some people on here are already complaining, so that's not a high bar to clear.

Madness...4 year rebuild.

Not even the Toronto Maple Leafs took 4 years to rebuild lol and their situation was much worse than ours before they got Matthews

Right, but if we accept your timeline definitions, had he hypothetically stayed on and the Rangers missed the playoffs this season due to something outside of their control (which has happened to better teams), it would mean that Gorton failed miserably.

You don't have to accept anything i'm telling you lol just like I don't need to entertain your hypothetical scenarios.

They fired Gorton because hot head Dolan got embarrassed in the playoffs physically, and thought he needed a new approach.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

People really don't seem to realize how long 4 years is in the realm of sports.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

No it really doesn't...


I'm not talking about other teams...i'm talking SPECIFICALLY about the Rangers when they announced their rebuild.

You said it was June 2017, presumably after they were eliminated...I pointed too February 2018, when that famous letter was sent out.

We're talking about 8 months here, 3 of those months are summer months.

Soooo...


Yeah, don't agree here but don't really care to debate that...you're entitled to think what you want.


Madness...4 year rebuild.

Not even the Toronto Maple Leafs took 4 years to rebuild lol and their situation was much worse than ours before they got Matthews


You don't have to accept anything i'm telling you lol just like I don't need to entertain your hypothetical scenarios.

They fired Gorton because hot head Dolan got embarrassed in the playoffs physically, and thought he needed a new approach.

It was a regular season game and the owner felt the team was good enough for the playoffs and underachieved. That's what the owner said...

 

[DAChampion]

No it really doesn't...I’m also not sure I actually spoke about what expectations I have for them.


I'm not talking about other teams...i'm talking SPECIFICALLY about the Rangers when they announced their rebuild.

You said it was June 2017, presumably after they were eliminated...I pointed too February 2018, when that famous letter was sent out.

We're talking about 8 months here, 3 of those months are summer months.

Soooo...


Yeah, don't agree here but don't really care to debate that...you're entitled to think what you want.


Madness...4 year rebuild.

Not even the Toronto Maple Leafs took 4 years to rebuild lol and their situation was much worse than ours before they got Matthews


You don't have to accept anything i'm telling you lol just like I don't need to entertain your hypothetical scenarios.

They fired Gorton because hot head Dolan got embarrassed in the playoffs physically, and thought he needed a new approach.

The Toronto Maple Leafs tried to rush their rebuild multiple times. I don't know of they've won a playoff series since the salary cap started.

 

[Sterling Archer]

People really don't seem to realize how long 4 years is in the realm of sports.

Have to say that even if they rank for 2 years which is pretty realistic and I’m hoping is what happens, it still takes a year or two at best to begin to get competitive especially if you’re building from the draft up, where teens are not going to get you to a cup contender even if you draft McDavid or Mathews because they literally haven’t had a sniff either and they’re years into their careers and top performers. I think 4 years is, well optimistic.

 

[417]

It was a regular season game and the owner felt the team was good enough for the playoffs and underachieved. That's what the owner said...

Yes you’re right..thanks for correcting me

 

[DAChampion]

Recall that half the teams in the NHL don't make the playoffs, and only the top 25% of teams make the second round.

The Habs are now the second worst team in the NHL, with no superstar prospects.

The road back to competitiveness will be long.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

The Toronto Maple Leafs tried to rush their rebuild multiple times. I don't know of they've won a playoff series since the salary cap started.

How did the Toronto Maple Leafs rush their last rebuild? 417 is right. They didn't tank 4 years when they decided to tear it down ('14-'15) and were back in the playoffs in '16-'17. And they didn't rush anything because they didn't actually make any considerable moves to get back into the playoffs. They just got Matthews and Marner playing.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Have to say that even if they rank for 2 years which is pretty realistic and I’m hoping is what happens, it still takes a year or two at best to begin to get competitive especially if you’re building from the draft up, where teens are not going to get you to a cup contender even if you draft McDavid or Mathews because they literally haven’t had a sniff either and they’re years into their careers and top performers. I think 4 years is, well optimistic.

I'm not saying that Gorton should have a Tampa Bay-like contender in 4 years. I'm saying that if Montreal is still at the bottom of the standings in 2026 (!), something went horribly wrong.

 

[DAChampion]

How did the Toronto Maple Leafs rush their last rebuild? 417 is right. They didn't tank 4 years when they decided to tear it down ('14-'15) and were back in the playoffs in '16-'17. And they didn't rush anything because they didn't actually make any considerable moves to get back into the playoffs. They just got Matthews and Marner playing.

I mean prior to Matthews and Marner. They should have had a thorough rebuild after Sundin left, instead they added Kessel and Phaneuf.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I mean prior to Matthews and Marner. They should have had a thorough rebuild after Sundown left, instead they added Kessel and Phaneuf.

Yes, they are a very stupid franchise. No one is denying this and it's kind of besides the point that was being made. 417 was saying that the Leafs did not suck for 4 years when they decided to rebuild and they were in worse shape than us, which is absolutely true.

 

[Gravity]

How did the Toronto Maple Leafs rush their last rebuild? 417 is right. They didn't tank 4 years when they decided to tear it down ('14-'15) and were back in the playoffs in '16-'17. And they didn't rush anything because they didn't actually make any considerable moves to get back into the playoffs. They just got Matthews and Marner playing.

They also rushed their rebuild by signing Tavares. A completely unnecessary signing that bloated the team's cap structure and pushed them to try to compete sooner than they were ready.

 

[Captain Mountain]

No it really doesn't...I’m also not sure I actually spoke about what expectations I have for them.

You've made it abundantly clear that 4 years without making the playoffs would be a miserable failure.

I'm not talking about other teams...i'm talking SPECIFICALLY about the Rangers when they announced their rebuild.

You said it was June 2017, presumably after they were eliminated...I pointed too February 2018, when that famous letter was sent out.

We're talking about 8 months here, 3 of those months are summer months.

Soooo...

I didn't just say it, I cited it. And I'm not sure what you'd call the GM saying they were rebuilding and trading your number 1 C for futures is called, but I call it a rebuild.

Yeah, don't agree here but don't really care to debate that...you're entitled to think what you want.

Good for you?

Madness...4 year rebuild.

Not even the Toronto Maple Leafs took 4 years to rebuild lol and their situation was much worse than ours before they got Matthews

First of all, the Leafs rebuild was executed very well and looking at the Leafs but to not a team like Buffalo or Edmonton or probably unfairly sets expectations. Second of all, they got lucky with Matthews. Third of all, I don't know how we can argue that their situation was much worse than Montreal's given that they had actually been a pretty strong drafting team for years before they actually rebuilt and had less players with money and term.

You don't have to accept anything i'm telling you lol just like I don't need to entertain your hypothetical scenarios.

They fired Gorton because hot head Dolan got embarrassed in the playoffs physically, and thought he needed a new approach.

What do you care, they missed the playoffs 4 years in a row, you would have fired him yourself.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

They also rushed their rebuild by signing Tavares. A completely unnecessary signing that bloated the team's cap structure and pushed them to try to compete sooner than they were ready.

They had made the playoffs the two seasons before signing Tavares. One can argue that they should not have signed him, but it had nothing to do with rebuilding. They were competing for 2 years before they signed him. They had just come off a game 7 loss to Boston.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I'm not saying that Gorton should have a Tampa Bay-like contender in 4 years. I'm saying that if Montreal is still at the bottom of the standings in 2026 (!), something went horribly wrong.

We’ll it depends. If we’re doing a proper rebuild, we may still suck after 4 years. Look at NY which is a great example. They were able to get back quicker but they also got lucky with Panarin, Zabinjad and Fox wanting to go there and thriving there. Panarin and Fox type players will not be insisting on going to Montreal. So if you’re building strictly from the draft, it’s going to take time, even for Bedard level players to come into their own. So 4 years for a complete turn around with an aging Price who may not even be here is a tall order. I’m thinking 5 to 6 years to be a Tampa level competitor is more likely. 4 years and you hope that they’re beginning to be competitive. But even if we’re like the Canes, who have a great team, great drafting and great reading for the most part, it’s been some time for them to get where they are now.

Ultimately, I’d rather suck for 4 years and be an actual contender, than suck for 2 and be a pretender.