Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Part 61

[ZUKI]

why do you insist on -THIS- year ?

including this season, the last SEVEN years
- miss the PO
- lose in round 1
- back to missing the PO
- miss the PO again
- lose in round two - after being allowed to the PO while being -> 24th <- in the whole league
- lose in the SCF after finishind the regular seaosn with a .527 W%

if not for COVID*, how many rounds of PO you think we win in the last SEVEN years ?
(no its not an excuse, numbers are there for you to see)


and we did finish 24th and played for .527 with both Price and Weber on the team...

Both Price and Weber ?
Both were injured during the long period where they have to play 1 game every 2 days BECAUSE of the Covid protocol. The team got the worst schedule of the division ( if not in the league) with a backup goalie in the net, and without a healthy Weber.
Out of the 3 season they didn't make the POs , one was without Price, the franchise player, one without Weber for a long period, and then, one season they got 96 points so , it's easy to trow the .527 of last season without doing the same for that 96 points season.

It's funny because everything you said is right , but also wrong if considering other elements. I won't change your point of view, and you won't change mine and it's okay .

 

[ZUKI]

An Arab in Cuba quoting Friedman? Suspicious..

He said later that it wasn't true. But Twitter being Twitter , he got his glorious moment.

 

[ZUKI]

No idea what this comment means.

Burner account = brûleur dépôt ?

 

[jfhabs]

I really don’t think Tampa wins a cup without Hedman. He played a lot of minutes in those Cup runs. McDonagh was 2nd in ice time followed by Sergachev in both Cup runs

I think I missread or post was changed. Only remember tampas winning because of Sergachev trade. Hedman is obviously the big piece here. Stamkos is a good player so is Sergachev, but neither are their top guys

 

[jfhabs]

Didn’t Hedman win the Conn Smythe in 2019-2020?

I think I missed read or post was changed. Only remember tampas winning because of Sergachev trade. Hedman is obviously the big piece here. Stamkos is a good player so is Sergachev, but neither are their top guys

 

[ECWHSWI]

Both Price and Weber ?
Both were injured during the long period where they have to play 1 game every 2 days BECAUSE of the Covid protocol. The team got the worst schedule of the division ( if not in the league) with a backup goalie in the net, and without a healthy Weber.
Out of the 3 season they didn't make the POs , one was without Price, the franchise player, one without Weber for a long period, and then, one season they got 96 points so , it's easy to trow the .527 of last season without doing the same for that 96 points season.

It's funny because everything you said is right , but also wrong if considering other elements. I won't change your point of view, and you won't change mine and it's okay .

Weber played 48 of the 56 Habs games lsat year, 65 of the 71 Habs games the previous season.
Price was in nets for 25 of the 56 Habs games last season, and 58 of the 71 Habs games the season before.

those are the two COVID seasons where the Habs played for .500 and .527 respectively...

wether you think they deserved their fate or not is irrelevant, you can have an excuse for every single lost the last two years and it's still irrelevant. That's the numbers they got with both in the line up for most of the games.

so RIGHT now, after our #1D retired and our #1G looks like he'll never play full time again... we're supposed to keep trying to improve the roster until we're contenders ?

we tried and failed miserably, now we just lost (so to speak) our two most important pieces and you think we should keep using the same strategy ?

why ?

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

It's really impossible to put a timeline on it. When I (for one) suggest a 4 year rebuild, I'm being conservative. I'm assuming that it will be difficult to unload some of the contracts, that most but not all of the draft picks will work out, that the Habs won't win the lottery every year, that they won't sign every free agent they want, etc.

Obviously, if everything goes right, then the Habs can return to genuine competitiveness much faster. But that's extremely unlikely. Here are some of the variables:

- Will Gorton extract good value when they trade (or keep?) Price, Gallagher, Anderson, Petry, Drouin, Chiarot, Savard, Edmondson, Lehkonen?
- How will the Habs do in the lottery?
- How deep are the 2022 and 2023 drafts?
- How many of Mailloux, Guhle, Struble, Brook, Harris, Caulfield, Poehling, Primeau, Norlinder, Roy, Mysak, etc will have continued progression free of injuries or stagnation?
- Which great players will make it to free agency? Which will want to join the Habs at a good rate?

It is extremely unlikely that all of these will go right. Even with great leadership, we should expect a few disappointments.

The list of palyers u named , if 3 makes the nhl as prospects (id remove Poehling) . It would be a success.
Trading Price Gallagher and Petry won'T be easy , same for Savard unless he has 1 year left at 50%

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

1) no
2) no
3) no
4) yes

Tampa aint winning 2 cups without those 3 Sorry.

Hedman by far the best dman in the league , Norris or not , dude plays like a machine and he's far superior than Adam Fox.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I think I missread or post was changed. Only remember tampas winning because of Sergachev trade. Hedman is obviously the big piece here. Stamkos is a good player so is Sergachev, but neither are their top guys

Stamkos is ppg+ in his career and .750 in playoffs.
That's absolutely ridic to think Stamkos is not a top guy. The guy was injured alot and still rocked 18 points in 23 games last playoffs and this season has 35 points in 29 games. Both Point and Kucherov are injured and he still rolling hard.

As for Segachev a solid 6'3 dman who can play offensively whos been rocking between 30-40 points a season since his debut with the Bolts.
Drouin has 153 points since his arrival and Sergachev has 140 points as a dman
They won this trade by a landslide.

Both are above core players in their success.

 

[TannedBum]

Drouin has 153 points since his arrival and Sergachev has 140 points as a dman
They won this trade by a landslide.

Can someone already ban this clown forever. Literally every argument you make is out of context. Sergachev has played 100 more games.

 

[Habs Icing]

That’s not wrong. Tanking is the ONLY way to get top tier talent. You literally can not rebuild without drafting your core star players. It’s just not done in the cap era.
So yes, you have to tank a couple of years and hope for good drafts to be able to do that. What’s wrong with that?

How did we get Suzuki?

 

[Sterling Archer]

How did we get Suzuki?

How is Suzuki a “top tier” talent? What exactly is he in the top of? League scoring? Goals? Assists? Points? Please enlighten me.
Also, can you find Patches near the top for any of those category? You remember him right. The guy we drafted and traded for Suzuki.

 

[DAChampion]

How is Suzuki a “top tier” talent? What exactly is he in the top of? League scoring? Goals? Assists? Points? Please enlighten me.
Also, can you find Patches near the top for any of those category? You remember him right. The guy we drafted and traded for Suzuki.

Pacioretty was traded for Suzuki, Tatar, and a pick. That's a great trade independently of Bergevin squandering Tatar.

Suzuki will eventually be better than Pacioretty.

 

[HabsCode]

Suzuki will eventually be better than Pacioretty.

Better defensively? Maybe. Offensively? He hasn’t shown yet he his a sure bet to score 30 goals 60 points consistently like Patch. Unless your crystal ball has told you otherwise.

 

[DAChampion]

Better defensively? Maybe. Offensively? He hasn’t shown yet he his a sure bet to score 30 goals 60 points consistently. Unless your crystal ball has told you otherwise.

Suzuki is ten years younger than Pacioretty, so he'll eventually be a better all around player.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Pacioretty was traded for Suzuki, Tatar, and a pick. That's a great trade independently of Bergevin squandering Tatar.

Suzuki will eventually be better than Pacioretty.

I hope he does become better but right now, Suzuki isn’t a top tier talent. He’s not at the caliber of a no. 1 center for a contending team.

Besides, the point was you need to draft top tier talent in order to rebuild. I clearly said 2-3 top tier prospects and Habs Icing tried to “get me” with the silly Suzuki trade as an example. Didn’t work out for him

 

[Habs Icing]

I hope he does become better but right now, Suzuki isn’t a top tier talent. He’s not at the caliber of a no. 1 center for a contending team.

Besides, the point was you need to draft top tier talent in order to rebuild. I clearly said 2-3 top tier prospects and Habs Icing tried to “get me” with the silly Suzuki trade as an example. Didn’t work out for him

Let me give you another example. The last few years the Rangers have gone through a rebuild, can you tell me what top-tier talent they drafted that is responsible for their turnaround?

 

[MTL-rules]

Better defensively? Maybe. Offensively? He hasn’t shown yet he his a sure bet to score 30 goals 60 points consistently like Patch. Unless your crystal ball has told you otherwise.

Pacioretty was a floater here, he was not the player he is now in Vegas, f*** him.

As for Suzuki, he is far better at 22yo than Pacioretty was at the same age.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Don’t want to argue on Christmas.

Merry Christmas!!

 

[ZUKI]

Can someone already ban this clown forever. Literally every argument you make is out of context. Sergachev has played 100 more games.

... and playing for the best NHL team. How many points Drouin would have made with Tampa or Sergachev with the Habs considering one team was at the top and the other was 23-24th ?

 

[HabsCode]

Let me give you another example. The last few years the Rangers have gone through a rebuild, can you tell me what top-tier talent they drafted that is responsible for their turnaround?

What turn around? They haven't made the playoff since drafting Kakko and Lafreniere, the past 2 seasons. They are in good position now, but they could be out in first round for all we know.

They are doing well this season because mainly of Panarin and Fox. A UFA and a guy who pretty much forced his way here. When is the last time players of that caliber showed any interest in playing for Montreal?

And it normally take 3-4 seasons before high draft pick make enough of a difference to push a bad teams into contenders. If Kakko and Lafreniere develop into what they were supposed to do, you can bet the Rangers are gonna be much more dangerous than if they don't.

 

[Habs Icing]

What turn around? They haven't made the playoff since drafting Kakko and Lafreniere, the past 2 seasons. They are in good position now, but they could be out in first round for all we know.

They are doing well this season because mainly of Panarin and Fox. A UFA and a guy who pretty much forced his way here. When is the last time players of that caliber showed any interest in playing for Montreal?

And it normally take 3-4 seasons before high draft pick make enough of a difference to push a bad teams into contenders. If Kakko and Lafreniere develop into what they were supposed to do, you can bet the Rangers are gonna be much more dangerous than if they don't.

They're 5th OA in the league and they're 9 points and a game in hand ahead of the 8th place team. Yeah, you're right they're liable to fall out of the playoffs any second...........not!

Sterling made the statement that drafting is the only way to get top-tier talent. That is obviously wrong.
You can draft them, trade for them, or sign them as UFA. That was my point. When it comes to acquiring talent to exclude two other avenues is shortsighted, counterproductive and guaranteed to keep your team out of contention.

 

[HabsCode]

They're 5th OA in the league and they're 9 points and a game in hand ahead of the 8th place team. Yeah, you're right they're liable to fall out of the playoffs any second...........not!

Sterling made the statement that drafting is the only way to get top-tier talent. That is obviously wrong.
You can draft them, trade for them, or sign them as UFA. That was my point. When it comes to acquiring talent to exclude two other avenues is shortsighted, counterproductive and guaranteed to keep your team out of contention.

Montreal ended up 2nd in the league in 2014-2015 after reaching CF in 2014, and look how it ended up for them the following seasons.

For the last 12 years, most cup winning team, especially perennial cup winner like LA, Pitt, Chicago or Tampa Bay, had their core build throught the draft. This is what should be considered the standard for successful hockey franchises.

Not being 5th overall in the league after 30 games, after being out of a playoff spots 4 season straight before. They haven't proved anything yet.

 

[jfhabs]

Stamkos is ppg+ in his career and .750 in playoffs.
That's absolutely ridic to think Stamkos is not a top guy. The guy was injured alot and still rocked 18 points in 23 games last playoffs and this season has 35 points in 29 games. Both Point and Kucherov are injured and he still rolling hard.

As for Segachev a solid 6'3 dman who can play offensively whos been rocking between 30-40 points a season since his debut with the Bolts.
Drouin has 153 points since his arrival and Sergachev has 140 points as a dman
They won this trade by a landslide.

Both are above core players in their success.

Dude played 1 period in one of the cup runs...

 

[jfhabs]

Tampa aint winning 2 cups without those 3 Sorry.

Hedman by far the best dman in the league , Norris or not , dude plays like a machine and he's far superior than Adam Fox.

I agree, Hedman is the most dominant D in the game the last few years. It's a game of what if. I'm just giving my opinion.