HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread: From Here to Free Agency

[Kosseca]

That Cup window won’t open until those young core players ( Hutson, Demidov, Slafkovsky) reach their respective peak performance levels. Trading away key future assets, won’t speed up that process. Failure to recognize this is very Leaf Nation like.

Hutson, Demidov, Slafkovsky will reached peak performance before Hage, Zarovsky and the other kids in that propose line up reach their. You wait for that 3rd waive of player to reach peak, you are getting at the end of Suzuki's window (both performance and friendly contrat) and CC friendly contract.

The idea is to build around a core (Suzuki, Caufleid, Slaf, Demi, Hutson) and complement. Toronto made bad decision with their cap (to many bad contracts) and traded away asset for questionable players. I'm more concerns with doing a OTT approach where they spent assets on good player but that didn't stick around or didnt work.

This team as a 100Pts C, a 50 goal W, a 70 Pts W, and 50Pts rookie, a no1 D, and most likely a no1 G. Adding to this make sense. Waiting is a sub-optimal scenario here, but I agree that it is one that is better to bad trade for sure.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Obviously the finals next year would be great, but success isn't linear.

Absolutely. But that’s the goal. The mindset.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Toronto made bad decision with their cap (to many bad contracts) and traded away asset for questionable players.

Not even sure why the leafs were mentioned. Few parallels with the habs.

Overpaid core too early. Big money free agent. Bad goaltending. Wasting picks and prospects on rentals. “Core 4” all forwards, neglecting defense.

Leafs and Habs both NHL teams. The end.

 

[Toene]

Pitts fans have been offering on the trade board, so I tend to think he could.

They're desensitized to injury-prone players missing a lot of games.

 

[waitin425]

We've talked about McTavish.

What about Laf as an option on the 2nd line.

Obviously not a centre, but a pair of 57 point seasons is more than Mason has. Similar cap hits. Similar age. McTavish plays a heavier game. But, maybe Laf has another level as per his draft pedigree.

Laf will bury a ton of goals with Demidov.

I don't want another Drouin scenario though.

Just spitballing.

 

[Bolduc of Hazzard]

Hutson, Demidov, Slafkovsky will reached peak performance before Hage, Zarovsky and the other kids in that propose line up reach their. You wait for that 3rd waive of player to reach peak, you are getting at the end of Suzuki's window (both performance and friendly contrat) and CC friendly contract.

The idea is to build around a core (Suzuki, Caufleid, Slaf, Demi, Hutson) and complement. Toronto made bad decision with their cap (to many bad contracts) and traded away asset for questionable players. I'm more concerns with doing a OTT approach where they spent assets on good player but that didn't stick around or didnt work.

This team as a 100Pts C, a 50 goal W, a 70 Pts W, and 50Pts rookie, a no1 D, and most likely a no1 G. Adding to this make sense. Waiting is a sub-optimal scenario here, but I agree that it is one that is better to bad trade for sure.

Nobody has suggested, as far as I've seen, that the Habs should do absolutely nothing and suck their thumbs and just give it another crack. This Habs management has also never done that.

What they did do is not just fill a hole because the internet cries for them to, and instead they are patient about finding the right fit. They are not going to overpay for just any centre on the market because they need another centre. And some people here really hate that and want to imagine that means this team hasn't tried to get better every summer.

The Habs are going to improve every year. They are not going to scorch their entire plan just to fill a hole.

 

[vokiel]

They're desensitized to injury-prone players missing a lot of games.

They are just hoping a big ass center 6' 4" with some skills can finally play healthy with success.

Like we have been for a long time. Maybe they qualify him at 4 mil? Why not? They're headed straight into a rebuild. Their team can afford it.

 

[DAChampion]

I think what people don’t understand is that when the cup window opens, when you “go for it”, it can still take several kicks at the can to succeed.

How is it that people don't understand that?

 

[Bolduc of Hazzard]

How is it that people don't understand that?

Because they don't actually watch the rest of the league. They don't see what teams went through before winning the Cup. They just know Montreal didn't do it so Montreal failed and they don't want them to fail again.

 

[JustStopThePuck]

Hard disagree. We could've closed the first and second round quicker if we had just one more legit top-6 producer, then the boys could've enjoyed some rest/be less gassed. Think about it : most games in round 1 were one goal games. Just a few more goals scored or set up by an impactful top-6 C would have changed a LOT.

I disagree, partially. Maybe Hischier/Thomas gets us a few more goals but it wasn't that kind of series. It was a physical, relentless pressure, in your face, hard on the boards type of series. They were bigger, stronger and meaner.

In round 2, we had difficulty with Buffalo's depth. I think Hischier/Thomas would've helped here, they bump a guy down each line. And they're both good defensive 2C's, could've maybe shut down some of Sabre's forwards.

In round 3, we for surely didn't lose because of fatigue. Absolutely, no effin way it was fatigue. They exploited every depth weakness we had. We couldn't get our of our zone, couldn't retain transitions through the neutral zone, had no puck possession in the o-zone. A third of our roster couldn't do anything on the ice.

Yes, a Hischier/Thomas couldn've helped, but long playoff runs are about depth, and we don't have that yet.

 

[Adriatic]

Hard disagree. We could've closed the first and second round quicker if we had just one more legit top-6 producer, then the boys could've enjoyed some rest/be less gassed. Think about it : most games in round 1 were one goal games. Just a few more goals scored or set up by an impactful top-6 C would have changed a LOT.

We're not just one player away lol. That Carolina series was more than just fatigue, we got outplayed from a to z in every aspect.

 

[scrubadam]

That Cup window won’t open until those young core players ( Hutson, Demidov, Slafkovsky) reach their respective peak performance levels. Trading away key future assets, won’t speed up that process. Failure to recognize this is very Leaf Nation like.

Team just made the final 4. And it wasn't one of those fluke runs they were a 106 point team. Why would they be years away? Hutson finished 6th in Norris voting. Slaf is entering his 5th year and just put up 70 points. Demidov was 3rd in rookie voting. Again I don't see why we have to say they are 3/4/5 years away.

At some point you have to trade assets because teams aren't built exclusivly at the draft table. Heck KH already traded 2 1sts and a 20goal scorer to upgrade the RD position. He apperantly made a deal at the deadline that the NHL blocked so who knows he could have already traded Hage and 1st.

Youth can help the team keep its window open but they already are a top team in the NHL getting over the hump and taking the next step to a cup final is within reach but it will take bold action and balls to make moves and to pay the cost.

 

[Kosseca]

Nobody has suggested, as far as I've seen, that the Habs should do absolutely nothing and suck their thumbs and just give it another crack. This Habs management has also never done that.

What they did do is not just fill a hole because the internet cries for them to, and instead they are patient about finding the right fit. They are not going to overpay for just any centre on the market because they need another centre. And some people here really hate that and want to imagine that means this team hasn't tried to get better every summer.

The Habs are going to improve every year. They are not going to scorch their entire plan just to fill a hole.

You are jumping into a discussion a bit late - that was exactly the point I was trying to make regarding someone suggesting that waiting was a viable option. Waiting is the alternative to only one scenario: making bad and desperate trade.

improving will be a function of both internal growth and trade. Management does not have full control over either. Players will need to take step to continue their development and making trade is dependent on other teams/players. As they said in the press conference, they will look for opportunities to improve and that work for me.

 

[scrubadam]

Yes. There's a window opening now, then another (hopefully overlapping) that has demidov as the top forward when suzuki hits his 30s.

(Why i want them to keep hage … i dont want them shopping for a 1C to play with demidov).

You can kind of look at the Pens.
One an early cup in 09, then didn't win again until B2B cups in 16 and 17.
Its not like after drafting Crosby and Malkin they said welp we gotta wait until 2016 to win a cup. They won one, still challanged and were a good team but took them another couple of years to finally find the right chemistry again and win 2 more cups.

Habs have a good chance now to get a cup with the right moves with this roster. But then they could not win again for another few year ans Suzuki resigns and Demidov turns 27 and they win another cup with a 33 year old Suzuki and 27 year old Demidov and 28 year old Hutson or whatever their ages are.

 

[scrubadam]

We've talked about McTavish.

What about Laf as an option on the 2nd line.

Obviously not a centre, but a pair of 57 point seasons is more than Mason has. Similar cap hits. Similar age. McTavish plays a heavier game. But, maybe Laf has another level as per his draft pedigree.

Laf will bury a ton of goals with Demidov.

I don't want another Drouin scenario though.

Just spitballing.

The only problem with those types of guys is that your tying yourself to them at a decent cap hit for a long time.
So if McT or Laf end up being low end 2C borderline 3C because they never improve then you are stuck with a 7-8 million cap hit and can't go out and sign a guy like McNugget or trade for Thomas or Hischer if they do become available.
If the team is going to commit they need to get a guy that can be a 2C on a cup winning team. If the team wants bandaids I would rather take a risk on maybe someone older like Kadri or Trochek but at least they only have like 3 more seasons left.

 

[scrubadam]

Nobody has suggested, as far as I've seen, that the Habs should do absolutely nothing and suck their thumbs and just give it another crack. This Habs management has also never done that.

What they did do is not just fill a hole because the internet cries for them to, and instead they are patient about finding the right fit. They are not going to overpay for just any centre on the market because they need another centre. And some people here really hate that and want to imagine that means this team hasn't tried to get better every summer.

The Habs are going to improve every year. They are not going to scorch their entire plan just to fill a hole.

that hole has been there for a long time with many failed attempts to fill it.
I also don't think trading one prospect is scorched earth. The team has 4 valuable prospects. Bach/Hage/Z/Fowler. I don't think its too much to use one of them in a trade to fill the hole on this team. I don't think anyone wants to trade all of them. But one of them can be used to land a 2C.

 

[waitin425]

The only problem with those types of guys is that your tying yourself to them at a decent cap hit for a long time.
So if McT or Laf end up being low end 2C borderline 3C because they never improve then you are stuck with a 7-8 million cap hit and can't go out and sign a guy like McNugget or trade for Thomas or Hischer if they do become available.
If the team is going to commit they need to get a guy that can be a 2C on a cup winning team. If the team wants bandaids I would rather take a risk on maybe someone older like Kadri or Trochek but at least they only have like 3 more seasons left.

I see that argument for sure. But...we also can't sit on our hands. If we strike out on the bigger fish, McT or Laf would be decent options.

Demidov could unlock Laf and make him a 70 pts+ guy.

Also....Laf is basically a veteran at this point and only 24.

The risk is great too. No doubt. Question is most definitely a risk reward one.

 

[JustStopThePuck]

Team just made the final 4. And it wasn't one of those fluke runs they were a 106 point team. Why would they be years away? Hutson finished 6th in Norris voting. Slaf is entering his 5th year and just put up 70 points. Demidov was 3rd in rookie voting. Again I don't see why we have to say they are 3/4/5 years away.

At some point you have to trade assets because teams aren't built exclusivly at the draft table. Heck KH already traded 2 1sts and a 20goal scorer to upgrade the RD position. He apperantly made a deal at the deadline that the NHL blocked so who knows he could have already traded Hage and 1st.

Youth can help the team keep its window open but they already are a top team in the NHL getting over the hump and taking the next step to a cup final is within reach but it will take bold action and balls to make moves and to pay the cost.

I don't think people are saying they don't want to trade assets to improve the team. It's more WHO they want and don't want to be traded, and WHO they want to add.

Hischier and Thomas will cost a king's ransom to acquire. I'd much rather pay half the price on 2-3 equally roster-transformative pieces. And I think we can hang onto Hage, Zharovsky and Reinbacher while doing so.

 

[Bolduc of Hazzard]

that hole has been there for a long time with many failed attempts to fill it.
I also don't think trading one prospect is scorched earth. The team has 4 valuable prospects. Bach/Hage/Z/Fowler. I don't think its too much to use one of them in a trade to fill the hole on this team. I don't think anyone wants to trade all of them. But one of them can be used to land a 2C.

The last we heard Thomas would cost Guhle Hage +, meaning more picks and such along with Guhle and Hage. I think someone else brought up the Blues were looking for two 1sts in any Thomas deal. I'd say that's pretty close to scorching it for one player.

Imagine giving up Hage Guhle and two 1sts for Thomas and after a down year as 2C without PP1 time he requests a trade and now you're moving him for less value.

They gotta find a fit before they pay a price.

 

[scrubadam]

I see that argument for sure. But...we also can't sit on our hands. If we strike out on the bigger fish, McT or Laf would be decent options.

Demidov could unlock Laf and make him a 70 pts+ guy.

Also....Laf is basically a veteran at this point and only 24.

The risk is great too. No doubt. Question is most definitely a risk reward one.

I kind of look at it like PLD in Wash actually
They made the move to get him but I wonder if the fan base and franchise kind of regrets it. He had an ok season with them but at 8.5 long term I am not sure he is the guy they want on the franchise and they might be going into a rebuild now.

TBH though I would probably take Laf over McTavish. Looks like McT is regressing being scratched and everything while Laff hasn't lived up to the number 1 hype but at least he had a better year this year than last and matched his career high.

To me if your going for decent would rather take a lower risk lower reward guy that is short term, and save swinging for the fences on the real big fish sure thing.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I kind of look at it like PLD in Wash actually
They made the move to get him but I wonder if the fan base and franchise kind of regrets it. He had an ok season with them but at 8.5 long term I am not sure he is the guy they want on the franchise and they might be going into a rebuild now.

TBH though I would probably take Laf over McTavish. Looks like McT is regressing being scratched and everything while Laff hasn't lived up to the number 1 hype but at least he had a better year this year than last and matched his career high.

To me if your going for decent would rather take a lower risk lower reward guy that is short term, and save swinging for the fences on the real big fish sure thing.

They have 37 mil in cap space and a number of good young players. I doubt that they're going to rebuild and they don't need toe cap space. They also traded Keumper for him, which is no big loss.

 

[scrubadam]

I don't think people are saying they don't want to trade assets to improve the team. It's more WHO they want and don't want to be traded, and WHO they want to add.

Hischier and Thomas will cost a king's ransom to acquire. I'd much rather pay half the price on 2-3 equally roster-transformative pieces. And I think we can hang onto Hage, Zharovsky and Reinbacher while doing so.

I would much rather pay the big price for the elite talent. Talent wins and talent trumps all. Would you rather have 1 Crosby or 5 Josh Andersons? Of course 1 Crosby.
I don't think Thomas is available and Hischer is probably a pipe dream because he gets moved in a hockey trade but if getting an elite player that isn't about to retire cost a Hage or Z or Bach you use your capital to acquire an elite talent. Teams win cups with elite talent on the roster.
Now I wouldn't use Hage or Z to get a 45 point washed center or buy low situation. Like McTavish. Def buy low I am not sending Hage for McTavish thats more like a 2nd or 1st round pick and Beck type prospect.

 

[LaP]

Hutson, Demidov, Slafkovsky will reached peak performance before Hage, Zarovsky and the other kids in that propose line up reach their. You wait for that 3rd waive of player to reach peak, you are getting at the end of Suzuki's window (both performance and friendly contrat) and CC friendly contract.

The idea is to build around a core (Suzuki, Caufleid, Slaf, Demi, Hutson) and complement. Toronto made bad decision with their cap (to many bad contracts) and traded away asset for questionable players. I'm more concerns with doing a OTT approach where they spent assets on good player but that didn't stick around or didnt work.

This team as a 100Pts C, a 50 goal W, a 70 Pts W, and 50Pts rookie, a no1 D, and most likely a no1 G. Adding to this make sense. Waiting is a sub-optimal scenario here, but I agree that it is one that is better to bad trade for sure.

You don't need for them to reach their peak. You'll never have a lineup full of players at their peak. It would require the entire lienup to be 24 ro 30 years old. Our experience problem atm is we have too many top players who are 22 or less and half the ones who are not don't belong as top players (Newhook, Evans, Carrier, ...). Once we can get a more experienced 2nd line center then having one of young Hage and Zharovsky completing the top 9 wing is not an issue.

 

[zzoo]

What do you think of Greer ? His stats looks mediocre.
He's UFA this summer.

 

[waitin425]

What do you think of Greer ? His stats looks mediocre.
He's UFA this summer.

Bottom 6 replacement for Gally?

Does he have any speed? Has size. Does he use it?

Bolduc - Evans - Greer
Anderson - Danault - Texier

???