HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[Tyson]

I get it, but competent RHD come at a massive premium. And points wise, not a whole lot of difference between Matheson and Andersson.

I’d do it.

Maybe we should just let the current group of RD prospects we have develop...we are still in a rebuild.

 

[waitin425]

This is what our roster could be in 2025, and this is excluding Anderson and Gallagher:

Slaf - Suzuki - Demidov
Caufield - Dach - Roy
Newhook - Beck - Mesar
Heineman - Xkekaj - Tuch
Kappanen

Zero chance, Mesar, Beck, Xhekaj, Tuch, Heinemen and Kapanen are all on the big club in 2025.

Everyone knows that very few clubs are built exclusively with players they drafted and/or primarily developed right?

We will likely go out and acquire someone for that top 6. I would prefer it if we took a swing a Laine with a low risk 2 years left on his contract. My guess is if we got him, he plays his way into a lesser contract than he currently has, and something along the lines of Suzuki. Or....he sucks badly and we let his contract expire. I don't think we are out of the Gally and Anderson contracts by then.

Roll with 3 very decent lines in 2025. Hope for Kap to fight Beck for 3rd line centre roles and bring them along. Hage won't arrive until at best 2026.

Slaf - Suzuki - Demidov (R)
Laine - Dach - Caufield
Newhook - Beck (R) - Roy
Gally - Kapanen (R) - Anderson

 

[Gustave]

Maybe we should just let the current group of RD prospects we have develop...we are still in a rebuild.

When Savard leaves at the TDL or at UFA bonanza day, we’ll have Rein, Mailloux and Barron. That’s way too green, even for them.

Let’s leave Rein in Laval for a year with cups o’tea during the season, same for Mailloux and look at Barron for the season to see what we have.

That’s my thinking.

 

[Benstheman]

How is Andersson an upgrade?

You mean over Matheson?? It's freaking HHHHUUUUUGE!

This has the merit of stabilizing the right side of our D with experience going forward. I like it.


He forces you to play Guhle on the left side, and gives you years of experience on our very green right side.

And he is way better than Matheson. He actually can play D, for a starter. He can be physical. Pretty good skater (not at Matheson's level though). Play PP. can also play PK.

He is a complete package. Just not elite offensively.

 

[ReHabs]

You and I have different objectives. You want a good season NOW. I want us to win a cup down the road. It's two different things and two different paths to get there.

I want to improve incrementally, to learn to win, to learn to close out games, to learn to play under pressure. You think it's a flip of a switch from bottom-feeder to big dog. We have 21 OA Hage coming (in three years) better not lift a finger until then.

 

[Tyson]

You mean over Matheson?? It's freaking HHHHUUUUUGE!


And he is way better than Matheson. He actually can play D, for a starter. He can be physical. Pretty good skater (not at Matheson's level though). Play PP. can also play PK.

He is a complete package. Just not elite offensively.

Sorry but this is one discussion where we will have to disagree.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I want to improve incrementally, to learn to win, to learn to close out games, to learn to play under pressure. You think it's a flip of a switch from bottom-feeder to big dog.

??????

You are the one looking for a quick fix thinking it will change everything. That's why you're arguing to get another top six player.

I've said that we should grow organically. This will take more time but it's likely to yield better long term results.

We have 21 OA Hage coming (in three years) better not lift a finger until then.

We have Demidov coming. That would knock Roy or Newhook to the third line with Beck (who's also an organic add.) We're building the kind of depth you're screaming we need now.

We don't need it now. We're not contending now. So why the rush?

Explain to me how our top six sucks. What kind of points do you think each will put up? What are you expecting from that group?

 

[Benstheman]

I want to improve incrementally, to learn to win, to learn to close out games, to learn to play under pressure. You think it's a flip of a switch from bottom-feeder to big dog. We have 21 OA Hage coming (in three years) better not lift a finger until then.

I agree with you. At some point, the guys need to play for something more tangible than just progressing or individual stats.

Sorry but this is one discussion where we will have to disagree.

I'm ok with that.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I agree with you. At some point, the guys need to play for something more tangible than just progressing or individual stats.

It may happen as early as this year even without a move.

And again, if you really want to make the playoffs this year, then it makes a whole lot more sense to trade for a veteran blueliner rather than a forward.

 

[Colezuki]

I don’t know what were yelling about

 

[KevSkillz4]

If we trade Anderson + for Laine, I'm 100% in. Columbus need to retain salary for 2 years though because Laine can't be pay more than Suzuki.

 

[BLONG7]

I agree he should play on the 3rd line but who will play on the top 6 in addition to Slaf, Suzuki, Caufield and Dach?

Newhook?? Yeah, probably. Unless they still want to see him play at center which in that case, he would play center on the 3rd line. But who else? Anderson? Gallagher?

Thinking there is a move coming this summer, to help the top 6........

 

[Benstheman]

It may happen as early as this year even without a move.

And again, if you really want to make the playoffs this year, then it makes a whole lot more sense to trade for a veteran blueliner rather than a forward.

Yes i agree on the D argument.

Also what i wanted to say while looking at your conversation with ReHabs is players need to feel Mgmt is looking at all the options to help them win/evolve. And rebuilding is not black or white in the sense that it can be more than just draft/draft/draft. And not every UFA signing or trade for more seasonned player is a quick fix.

Thinking there is a move coming this summer, to help the top 6........

Maybe yes.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yes i agree on the D argument.

Also what i wanted to say while looking at your conversation with ReHabs is players need to feel Mgmt is looking at all the options to help them win/evolve. And rebuilding is not black or white in the sense that it can be more than just draft/draft/draft. And not every UFA signing or trade for more seasonned player is a quick fix.

Laine looks to me like the epitome of a quick fix. Big contract, player assistance program, vet...

As I said, I'm not wholly opposed to a trade if it makes sense. If it's part of a long term play, sure. Who's not for that? But that's not all he's saying.

He's saying we HAVE to do it because our top six sucks. And that's bullshit.

 

[BLONG7]

Laine looks to me like the epitome of a quick fix. Big contract, player assistance program, vet...

As I said, I'm not wholly opposed to a trade if it makes sense. If it's part of a long term play, sure. Who's not for that? But that's not all he's saying.

He's saying we HAVE to do it because our top six sucks. And that's bullshit.

Our top 6 doesn't suck that's for sure.............but there is the unknown with Dach and his injury issues....that for me is a cause for concern.

I also think we are due for some good luck on the injury front, so who knows.....

One more add this summer to the top 6 and we are more than fine..............do not want to see a useless vet in our top 6.....to start the season.

 

[ReHabs]

??????

You are the one looking for a quick fix thinking it will change everything. That's why you're arguing to get another top six player.

I've said that we should grow organically. This will take more time but it's likely to yield better long term results.

You keep saying "quick fix" despite me refuting it repeatedly. Wanting to constantly improve the roster is the opposite of a quick fix. If you want to argue with a wall, be my guest.

"grow organically" a meaningless statement in this context.

We have Demidov coming. That would knock Roy or Newhook to the third line with Beck (who's also an organic add.) We're building the kind of depth you're screaming we need now.

We don't need it now. We're not contending now. So why the rush?

Explain to me how our top six sucks. What kind of points do you think each will put up? What are you expecting from that group?

I've explained why and how the top6 sucks, I've made a post showing how far our top6 is from that of recent cup-winners. It's a matter of your insistence that our top6 is good (compared to what, a AHL team?) and that Roy (who isn't even a full fledged NHLer) could be hotswapped for Gallagher in case Roy doesn't make the team.

Montreal was 26th of 32 in GF last year

I'd like for them to play meaningful games throughout the season no matter the outcome. That means they need to score more and play with more skill and guile. If one of the top6 players goes down we have nobody to slot in.

One more add this summer to the top 6 and we are more than fine..............do not want to see a useless vet in our top 6.....to start the season.

That's exactly what I'm saying. We need one more top6 player. Lafleurs Guy insists that's bullshit because it would get in the way of mighty Joshua Roy's organic development.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

It may happen as early as this year even without a move.

And again, if you really want to make the playoffs this year, then it makes a whole lot more sense to trade for a veteran blueliner rather than a forward.

I haven't seen anyone say playoffs or bust. Some folks just really want to put chances on our side that we're not tossed out by the halfway point and I agree with them as well.

The contention that this means those folks just care about a quick fix and doing that would impede progress to a Stanley Cup is super silly IMO.

 

[BLONG7]

You keep saying "quick fix" despite me refuting it repeatedly. Wanting to constantly improve the roster is the opposite of a quick fix. If you want to argue with a wall, be my guest.

"grow organically" a meaningless statement in this context.

I've explained why and how the top6 sucks, I've made a post showing how far our top6 is from that of recent cup-winners. It's a matter of your insistence that our top6 is good (compared to what, a AHL team?) and that Roy (who isn't even a full fledged NHLer) could be hotswapped for Gallagher in case Roy doesn't make the team.

Montreal was 26th of 32 in GF last year

I'd like for them to play meaningful games throughout the season no matter the outcome. That means they need to score more and play with more skill and guile. If one of the top6 players goes down we have nobody to slot in.


That's exactly what I'm saying. We need one more top6 player. Lafleurs Guy insists that's bullshit because it would get in the way of mighty Joshua Roy's organic development.

I see Roy in the lineup...............but not in the top 6.................bottom 6 all the way for me, and the odd assignment up top if there are injuries.

 

[Benstheman]

Laine looks to me like the epitome of a quick fix. Big contract, player assistance program, vet...

As I said, I'm not wholly opposed to a trade if it makes sense. If it's part of a long term play, sure. Who's not for that? But that's not all he's saying.

He's saying we HAVE to do it because our top six sucks. And that's bullshit.

I would say Laine could also be a long term solution if he comes back as he's old self. In fact, i don't see him as a fix. He is more of a gamble. Hoping he regains confidence and can be a core player going forward. He is still really young and won't cost any important piece for our future.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You keep saying "quick fix" despite me refuting it repeatedly. Wanting to constantly improve the roster is the opposite of a quick fix. If you want to argue with a wall, be my guest.

"grow organically" a meaningless statement in this context.

You say that I'm expecting a 'flip of a switch' when I very clearly have told you this will take time.

Improve the roster? Sure. If there's a trade out there that does that long term? Nobody is opposed. Why would they be?

Saying we NEED to do it and that our top six sucks? No.

I've explained why and how the top6 sucks, I've made a post showing how far our top6 is from that of recent cup-winners. It's a matter of your insistence that our top6 is good (compared to what, a AHL team?) and that Roy (who isn't even a full fledged NHLer) could be hotswapped for Gallagher in case Roy doesn't make the team.

You have done nothing of the kind.

You are taking a good point made by DAChampion and extrapolating it out of context. That's our lack of depth outside the top six. And in the event of an injury we'd have to rely on a player like Gallagher... okay, that's true. For the moment we don't have the offensive depth that we would like to have. But that will be shortly rectified by Demidov and others on the way.

Our top six is a completely different question. I don't see how anyone can argue that Newhook and Dach aren't solid secondary scorers. They're young, coming into their prime and should be just fine in that role. Roy is a different story but I think it makes sense to play him there for development purposes. If we bring someone else in, it knocks Roy to the third. Personally, I'd rather him higher up because I think he'll benefit from playing with better players.

I'll ask you again: What are your point projections for Dach, Newhook and Roy?

Montreal was 26th of 32 in GF last year

Montreal lost Dach for the full season. Caufield shot at a mind bogglingly bad 5 percent in the slot. Newhook had injuries right when he was getting hot. We have Hutson joining the club. Slaf is going to be better as well.

I'm not worried about our offense. I am worried about our health. But that's true for any team.

I'd like for them to play meaningful games throughout the season no matter the outcome. That means they need to score more and play with more skill and guile. If one of the top6 players goes down we have nobody to slot in.

That may happen anyway. Might as well see what we've got.

If we need a B12 shot midway through the year, we can look at making a move then. But there's no hurry to do it now.

If we really want to make the playoffs this year, then we should get a vet defenseman on the right side. Trade Matheson for him. That moves Guhle back to the left and we'd be a much, much better team. I'd prefer we grow that group orgainically as well but if it's a quick fix move, then do it on the D.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I would say Laine could also be a long term solution if he comes back as he's old self. In fact, i don't see him as a fix. He is more of a gamble. Hoping he regains confidence and can be a core player going forward. He is still really young and won't cost any important piece for our future.

He's a gamble we don't need to take. Think PLD.... where would we be if we'd listened to posters who wanted him?

We have tons of picks and prospects to trade with. If we're going to bolster the forwards then I'd say we go to a team that's out of the playoffs and get somebody who's a sure thing or young enough we can mold. Not only that, I'd want someone with a different style. A power forward type.

 

[Captain Mountain]

You mean over Matheson?? It's freaking HHHHUUUUUGE!


And he is way better than Matheson. He actually can play D, for a starter. He can be physical. Pretty good skater (not at Matheson's level though). Play PP. can also play PK.

He is a complete package. Just not elite offensively.

Um, I'd suggest watching Andersson more (especially when he doesn't play with true top pair caliber D like Weegar or Hanifin). Because man does it look rough sometimes. And last season he was less physical/ engaged than Matheson and one of the absolute worst D in the NHL at defending the blueline. Considering competition, one could easily argue Matheson was better defensively last season.

Trading Matheson and a 1st for Andersson (and presumably re-signing Andersson, because there is legitimately no point to giving up a 1st to swap for two seasons) is the kind of trade that would set Montreal back a couple of years in a rebuild.

I'd rather just re-sign Savard (who's better defensively) because the contract wont be for as much or long as Andersson would demand, but if I had to trade for any of Calgary's current D, it would only be for Weegar.

 

[Benstheman]

He's a gamble we don't need to take. Think PLD.... where would we be if we'd listened to posters who wanted him?

We have tons of picks and prospects to trade with. If we're going to bolster the forwards then I'd say we go to a team that's out of the playoffs and get somebody who's a sure thing or young enough we can mold.

PLD was in fact, full of risks. We needed to pay in the trade and needed to give him 8 years contract. That's completely different than Laine.

Laine is a risk free gamble.

 

[Benstheman]

Um, I'd suggest watching Andersson more (especially when he doesn't play with true top pair caliber D like Weegar or Hanifin). Because man does it look rough sometimes. And last season he was less physical/ engaged than Matheson and one of the absolute worst D in the NHL at defending the blueline. Considering competition, one could easily argue Matheson was better defensively last season.

Trading Matheson and a 1st for Andersson (and presumably re-signing Andersson, because there is legitimately no point to giving up a 1st to swap for two seasons) is the kind of trade that would set Montreal back a couple of years in a rebuild.

I'd rather just re-sign Savard (who's better defensively) because the contract wont be for as much or long as Andersson would demand, but if I had to trade for any of Calgary's current D, it would only be for Weegar.

I actually watched him alot and i disagree completely. And Savard is done with Habs after next season unless it's to play as a number 6-7 guy for 2M$ a year.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

PLD was in fact, full of risks. We needed to pay in the trade and needed to give him 8 years contract. That's completely different than Laine.

Laine is a risk free gamble.

You're bringing a problem child into a culture that seems to be pretty harmonious. And you're bringing in a guy with mental health issues into the harshest market in the world. Then there are the salary concerns. And if he turns into another Scott Gomez, it would be absolutely toxic.

Moreover, we already have CC, Demidov and Roy. Same kind of finesse, skilled game as Laine.

If we're going to trade for a forward I'd much rather it be for a player with a power game. That's something we lack up front. A different dimension there would be helpful long term. A Ryan Leonard/Tkachuk/Knies type guy.