Not giving up a 1st for a goaltender. Maybe for a McGroarty.
HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread
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Beendair Donedat
Juice Arse 2.0
Okay.
Hughes wouldn’t, especially when we have no idea where our 2025 pick may end up. We could have some major injuries again and be a lotto team - or we could improve significantly. Only time will tell on that front, and Hughes won’t roll the dice.
Don’t forget that Hughes already turned down Askarov and the 15th overall pick to jump up to 5th overall from Nashville.
Askarov, regardless of what you think of his talent, simply doesn’t hold that kind of value around the league.
- Jan 18, 2022
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It's inconceivable that all of Slafkovsky, Hutson, Reinbacher, Demidov, Hage, Dach, Newhook, Guhle, Laine, and Caufield all hit and reach 90th+ percentile of their perceived upside... I have my doubts about a few of them...
But...
Unlike the Bergevin-era, where he was inexplicably praised for amassing worthless late draft picks "for more darts for the dartboard"* what Hughes has done is manoeuvre in such a way to actually bet on these chances and have the odds be in our favour to develop an actual CORE of vital players. Every single one of those players has "core" upside.
After the bottom fell out around 2016-2018, Bergevin punted the following few seasons despite have an aging superstar Carey Price and rapidly declining Shea Weber on the roster. They didn't have the pipeline of talent and couldn't attract UFAs and couldn't trade for players. They called it a re-tool but it was a punt -- he couldn't even sell to get a single extra first round pick. He pursued "darts for the dartboard" instead. Bozos like Arpon Basu and Eric Engels praised him for it. With the flat-cap of the Covid-era and ample unused cap space the saw his chance to pounce on some market opportunities and it worked out as well as anybody could have expected.
What has Hughes done differently? He's inverted the deal. He's focussed on high-upside players who could become cornerstones or important players not low-upside draft picks where we'd be happy if they made the NHL in the first place (eg. Mete). I was opposed to the price paid for Dach and the entire Newhook trade but in aggregate you see the pattern: he's made a continuous series of bets on young players with tangible upside. In this case he's been paid a value draft pick to make this bet and all it has cost is cap space the Habs wouldn't utilise anyway.
If it doesn't end up working out, I'd still want the next GM to approach building the core this way. I'm not a cult of personality guy with GMs, not at all, but his methodology SO FAR -- which has been to amass a surplus of potential core players and see how they develop -- has been pretty hard to deny. Much better than tinkering with window dressing and bottom6ers every summer.
*Seriously that's a quote attributed to the Bergevin Habs. What tools they were.
But...
Unlike the Bergevin-era, where he was inexplicably praised for amassing worthless late draft picks "for more darts for the dartboard"* what Hughes has done is manoeuvre in such a way to actually bet on these chances and have the odds be in our favour to develop an actual CORE of vital players. Every single one of those players has "core" upside.
After the bottom fell out around 2016-2018, Bergevin punted the following few seasons despite have an aging superstar Carey Price and rapidly declining Shea Weber on the roster. They didn't have the pipeline of talent and couldn't attract UFAs and couldn't trade for players. They called it a re-tool but it was a punt -- he couldn't even sell to get a single extra first round pick. He pursued "darts for the dartboard" instead. Bozos like Arpon Basu and Eric Engels praised him for it. With the flat-cap of the Covid-era and ample unused cap space the saw his chance to pounce on some market opportunities and it worked out as well as anybody could have expected.
What has Hughes done differently? He's inverted the deal. He's focussed on high-upside players who could become cornerstones or important players not low-upside draft picks where we'd be happy if they made the NHL in the first place (eg. Mete). I was opposed to the price paid for Dach and the entire Newhook trade but in aggregate you see the pattern: he's made a continuous series of bets on young players with tangible upside. In this case he's been paid a value draft pick to make this bet and all it has cost is cap space the Habs wouldn't utilise anyway.
If it doesn't end up working out, I'd still want the next GM to approach building the core this way. I'm not a cult of personality guy with GMs, not at all, but his methodology SO FAR -- which has been to amass a surplus of potential core players and see how they develop -- has been pretty hard to deny. Much better than tinkering with window dressing and bottom6ers every summer.
*Seriously that's a quote attributed to the Bergevin Habs. What tools they were.
HuGort
Registered User
I think some of these posters don't listen to how positive Montreal management speak of Fowler. Several times he mentioned him being MVP of USHL playoffs. Then taking his game a notch higher once he changed his training mode..
In fact I think Flower will be pro by seasons end. Reading between the lines.
Doubtful Hughes give up big piece for Askarov
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General Fanager
Registered User
If the defense is what we think it will be in 2-3 years Monty is plenty good enough to be the guy...
That's what I like about Hughes – his pursuit of 'high-upside'. Habs haven't been gifted a superstar pick like Bedard. Nothing dropped in our lap, so each upgrade had to be strategically engineered. Dach, Monahan, Laine weren't easy moves, each carried risk, but Hughes willfully followed through anyways because each move gave us the chance to get much better. The previous regime threw aimless darts; this regime is launching guided missiles.
Hughes is also a skilled accountant. Our key players are signed to longterm, team-friendly contracts that will keep our cap management lean and flexible. The benefits of these contracts will be huge in a few years.
Not every move will work out but, as you said, this is the bold approach we need to turn this group of kids into a winning team. How many 1st-round picks has Hughes acquired – four? Five? I'm not even sure. On the other hand, it's easy to remember the number of 1sts Bergevin acquired: Zero.
- Jan 18, 2022
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I don't think this can be emphasised enough. We're lean and mean right now. All is left is winning hockey games, Laine's acquisition helps in this regard in a significant and direct way, but if (god forbid!!!) we don't win with this young core, it can easily be shifted and adjusted. We're not locked in a corner or 'all-in' whatsoever.
Hutson, Reinbacher, and Demidov will offer, for the first time in my life, eye-watering amounts of Habs talent depth as they bleed in over the next two years...
B1g B1rd
Habs Best Def of all times
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Naslundforever
43-67-110
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So this Laine thing has kinda ruined the hype of summer but reading the enthusiasm is worth it.
Hard to imagine anything happening before camp at this point. I have not been hyped for the power play since the late 2000’s. So many cringe years with « can they just wave it? » half serious jokes.
You’d need quite a trade for a guy to slot the top 6 right now. A bottom 6 trade seems unlikely, Matheson worth way more than a vet pk/face off specialist and the bottom 6 forwards have neutral to negative value (I’d keep Armia) so run out the contracts. Cue camp!
Ahl gonna be cool too. Hockey winter upcoming for sure.
Hard to imagine anything happening before camp at this point. I have not been hyped for the power play since the late 2000’s. So many cringe years with « can they just wave it? » half serious jokes.
You’d need quite a trade for a guy to slot the top 6 right now. A bottom 6 trade seems unlikely, Matheson worth way more than a vet pk/face off specialist and the bottom 6 forwards have neutral to negative value (I’d keep Armia) so run out the contracts. Cue camp!
Ahl gonna be cool too. Hockey winter upcoming for sure.
salbutera
Registered User
- Sep 10, 2019
- 15,079
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Let me clarify 1st round condition: top-15 protected + which ever is the later pick
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
It's way too risky for a kid that's played only 3 NHL games at this point. I mean, he has all the tools and is a great prospect but when it comes to goalie I wouldn't give up that much. Not with what we have coming up anyway, we should be set in a couple of seasons
calder candidate
Registered User
unless there is a situation where a player become available we should be done adding for now, let see what we have, while starting the year without LTIR and let maximize the value of guys like Dvorak, Savard, Evans, Anderson, Gallagher, Armia… Will see how Laine does but if he is doing well I would resign Armia to have a onther Finn in the locker room +PK, vet bottom 6 with size and skills.
We can´t be too agressive because than when it is easier to make mistakes.
With Suzuki, Dach, Slaf, CC, Laine, Demidov our top 6 situations seem pretty set what we are looking for are player that have middle 6 skills, energy with size and speed.
We want to keep our draft pick as long as possible because we have a lot of the piece in place now but we can’t count our chickens until the eggs hatch. We need to let them progress and see that they do the job once we are on playoff position than we can think about it.
I don’t really like most of the offer sheet proposals but to me If we really want to be agressive and do something that might actually work you have to play a long game. we offer sheet Seider or Raymond to a 1 year 9-10M$ deal Detroit matches but can’t trade him and than if they are still worth it you take a other swing at them the following year walking them to UFA. But I think it easier to target guy that haven’t proven anything like STL did.
We can´t be too agressive because than when it is easier to make mistakes.
With Suzuki, Dach, Slaf, CC, Laine, Demidov our top 6 situations seem pretty set what we are looking for are player that have middle 6 skills, energy with size and speed.
We want to keep our draft pick as long as possible because we have a lot of the piece in place now but we can’t count our chickens until the eggs hatch. We need to let them progress and see that they do the job once we are on playoff position than we can think about it.
I don’t really like most of the offer sheet proposals but to me If we really want to be agressive and do something that might actually work you have to play a long game. we offer sheet Seider or Raymond to a 1 year 9-10M$ deal Detroit matches but can’t trade him and than if they are still worth it you take a other swing at them the following year walking them to UFA. But I think it easier to target guy that haven’t proven anything like STL did.
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Nick suzuki is standing on the battle field, all.hope is lost. Caufield is only scoring 20 goals, Slaf struggles to keep up and only is a 70 points forward, Matheson leads the league in turnovers, Montambeault despite his best effort cannot keep up, and Suzuki hears a faint, familiar voice in his ear piece... "On your left". Its Carey price, he appears out of a portal in full goalie gear, with Sid in full Habs gear.
calder candidate
Registered User
The Florida pick going to Calgary is lottery protected(no one seem really sure if that is top 15 or top 2)
The Calgary pick is top ten protected and they also protected Florida pick top 10, if neither are top10 we get the better pick, if one is top 10 we get the other pick ( most likely scenario) if Florida pick somehow doesn’t transfer we would get Calgary pick unless they win the lottery in which case we get CGY unprotected 2026 first
Benstheman
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- Nov 20, 2014
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If we make significant stride this season (making the playoffs or on the bubble) and Crosby doesn't want to re-sign with the Pens, do you think he considers Mtl as a destination to finish his career? I would love to see him in a Habs jersey.
WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
CDN24
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2009
- 3,715
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I agree, Askarov at this point may be a step back in the short term. It would mean dumping Primeau or Monty- can't have another year of the three ring circus. Is Askarov ready? he is a 2020 draft pick. Primeau a 2017 only started looking ready last year.
Way more dowside than upside in a Askarov trade, especially if we are sending anything significant back
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Egresch
Registered User
- Jul 10, 2022
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OK, so you are telling me we need to trade for Crosby at TDL to beat Colorado
Crosby
for
Dvorak, bunch of picks and prospects
KevSkillz4
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2016
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Hey!
That's a D with Columbus, that's I target since 2 years. I don't know his first name, but last name it's Harris. I would give Cole Caufield and 2nd pick in 2026.
That's a great proposal. My best one.
That's a D with Columbus, that's I target since 2 years. I don't know his first name, but last name it's Harris. I would give Cole Caufield and 2nd pick in 2026.
That's a great proposal. My best one.
Adam Michaels
Registered User
I'm curious if Montreal has another trade in the works. Probably not a major one, but something. The reason I say that is because when asked during his Zoom call, Kent said that they feel they can start the season without placing Price on LTIR.
Obviously, they can still end up doing that. But for him to say it after the Laine trade and going $2M over the cap with the move, it leads me to believe that he is still working on something.
Obviously, they can still end up doing that. But for him to say it after the Laine trade and going $2M over the cap with the move, it leads me to believe that he is still working on something.
WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
I think I saw something on how he can be cap compliant with some small moves, I think we can start without a full roster too which puts us under.
sampollock
Registered User
Sorinth
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2013
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Yes I think the minimum is 20 players, so by sending down a couple waiver exempt players we can get in under the cap. Struble and Roy seem like likely candidates for that.
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