HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[Boss Man Hughes]

With Price LTIR we end up with what? 17 mil in cap space... We're rich!

In the off season. It does not affect in season cap space.

 

[The Real Timo]

PTOs I'd like to see.

Austin Watson - punching bag, physical, pker. Would likely be fine with going in and out of the lineup as needed.

Matt Martin - can fight, hits to hurt. Would likely be the same in that he can sit against softer teams.

Both Watson and Martin add toughness and can lessen the fighting load for Xhekaj.

Cal Clutterbuck - really physical, can pk, should still have some skill left to be somewhat useful. Has some fighting prowess there, too.

JVR - one of the best net front presences in the game for a decade, if not longer. Not as good as he was, but could be an option to change things up if the main pp is stagnant.

Yeah, let's get the knuckleheads. Habs are too soff!

 

[DAChampion]

The ideological fervor that many have against offer sheets is bizarre.

It's a legitimate tool and part of the CBA.

With 12 NHL regulars/high end D prospects something has to give as early as this training camp.
Some guys are waiver exempt but if they show they are ready something has to be done.
I am convinced Hughes will handle things right. He can't let this fester forever though.

The Habs have seven NHL D:

Matheson, Guhle, Savard, Barron, Xhekaj, Harris, Struble.

Of those, we should expect 70 man-games lost to injury this year.

So there's no need for changes until the deadline at the earliest.

 

[Tyson]

The ideological fervor that many have against offer sheets is bizarre.

It's a legitimate tool and part of the CBA.



The Habs have seven NHL D:

Matheson, Guhle, Savard, Barron, Xhekaj, Harris, Struble.

Of those, we should expect 70 man-games lost to injury this year.

So there's no need for changes until the deadline at the earliest.

I knew someone would misread what I said. 12 "NHL regulars/high end D prospects" is a combination of the NHL D and the high end prospects.

 

[Rapala]

Sorry, I wasn't referring to you.
Some posters came to the defense of Barron when i suggested the Habs should trade him. Offended might've been a bit of an exaggeration...lol

As for the scouts, i'm not sure what you mean. They're the ones who recommend players to their bosses.

I have no idea why you brought up scouts. We aren't scouting our own players.
So I really don't care what a scout may or may not have said about Barron it's irrelevant.

 

[DAChampion]

I knew someone would misread what I said. 12 "NHL regulars/high end D prospects" is a combination of the NHL D and the high end prospects.

What you wrote included:

"With 12 NHL regulars/high end D prospects something has to give as early as this training camp."

If some parts of your post contradict other parts then you should expect to be frustrated by replies.

Nothing needs to be done as early as this training camp.

 

[Mrb1p]

What if we offersheet Seider ?

Guhle-Seider
Hutson-Reinbacher

Instantly becomes the best top 4 of the lates 20's.

Heck, even for this year
Guhle-Seider
Matheson-Savard
Hutson-Xhekaj

is a pretty friggin great top 6 and I don't see the Habs finishing too low, definitely pass over Detroit.

The ideological fervor that many have against offer sheets is bizarre.

It's a legitimate tool and part of the CBA.



The Habs have seven NHL D:

Matheson, Guhle, Savard, Barron, Xhekaj, Harris, Struble.

Of those, we should expect 70 man-games lost to injury this year.

So there's no need for changes until the deadline at the earliest.

The fervor against OS is also shared in the GM circle it seems. It happens very rarely.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I knew someone would misread what I said. 12 "NHL regulars/high end D prospects" is a combination of the NHL D and the high end prospects.

I think DA understands what you are saying and I do agree with him in that there would be no harm in starting Hutson, Mailloux, Reinbacher and Engstrom in Laval as this group has a collective total of 3 NHL games under their belts and only Mailloux with a full season of North American pro hockey experience. There is the inevitable certainty of injuries that will almost always have one of the NHL spots up for grabs so in effect you have an eight man NHL dcorps at a minimum for much of the season. There is no rush this season to force a trade for below market return just to open a spot. The trade deadline might be the real deadline when Hughes would acknowledge that he would need to make a move but until then there is no real rush as injuries will almost certainly allow for more than 8 dmen to see significant time in the NHL.

I think we all agree that it would be great to see Hughes move a dman out for a fair return sooner than later but I do not see him acquiescing to an offer that is below market value due to internal pressure that typically doesn't seem to force him to make such moves. The only time that I think he would even consider relenting to this pressure would be at the deadline.

My personal opinion is that an injury during training camp/exhibition will push a team to approach Hughes which will give him the leverage required to procure a satisfactory return. Of course the same can happen internally and we could experience an injury or two that allows for one or two of the Laval bound kids an opportunity to play in the NHL.

I think Hutson is the player that will put the most pressure on management to make the team as there will be a ton of external pressure and I also feel that he might be the least accepting of having to start in Laval as he is a fiery competitor and definitely has it in him to get pissed off. This didn't stop Hughes from sending Xhekaj down so it may not matter but I suspect it will play a role on some level as Hughes does lean towards harmony rather than dissension. Perhaps Struble goes to Laval and Hutson stays, I just know that these are awfully tough decisions that include information and dynamics that nobody here is privy to. I believe that you, I and DA agree on the vast majority of this conversation, it is just the minutia where we may differ and this also happens to be where we can not see behind the curtain to really parse objectivity from subjectivity.

 

[Tyson]

I think DA understands what you are saying and I do agree with him in that there would be no harm in starting Hutson, Mailloux, Reinbacher and Engstrom in Laval as this group has a collective total of 3 NHL games under their belts and only Mailloux with a full season of North American pro hockey experience. There is the inevitable certainty of injuries that will almost always have one of the NHL spots up for grabs so in effect you have an eight man NHL dcorps at a minimum for much of the season. There is no rush this season to force a trade for below market return just to open a spot. The trade deadline might be the real deadline when Hughes would acknowledge that he would need to make a move but until then there is no real rush as injuries will almost certainly allow for more than 8 dmen to see significant time in the NHL.

I think we all agree that it would be great to see Hughes move a dman out for a fair return sooner than later but I do not see him acquiescing to an offer that is below market value due to internal pressure that typically doesn't seem to force him to make such moves. The only time that I think he would even consider relenting to this pressure would be at the deadline.

My personal opinion is that an injury during training camp/exhibition will push a team to approach Hughes which will give him the leverage required to procure a satisfactory return. Of course the same can happen internally and we could experience an injury or two that allows for one or two of the Laval bound kids an opportunity to play in the NHL.

I think Hutson is the player that will put the most pressure on management to make the team as there will be a ton of external pressure and I also feel that he might be the least accepting of having to start in Laval as he is a fiery competitor and definitely has it in him to get pissed off. This didn't stop Hughes from sending Xhekaj down so it may not matter but I suspect it will play a role on some level as Hughes does lean towards harmony rather than dissension. Perhaps Struble goes to Laval and Hutson stays, I just know that these are awfully tough decisions that include information and dynamics that nobody here is privy to. I believe that you, I and DA agree on the vast majority of this conversation, it is just the minutia where we may differ and this also happens to be where we can not see behind the curtain to really parse objectivity from subjectivity.

Well said!

 

[therocket9]

PTOs I'd like to see.

Austin Watson - punching bag, physical, pker. Would likely be fine with going in and out of the lineup as needed.

Matt Martin - can fight, hits to hurt. Would likely be the same in that he can sit against softer teams.

Both Watson and Martin add toughness and can lessen the fighting load for Xhekaj.

Cal Clutterbuck - really physical, can pk, should still have some skill left to be somewhat useful. Has some fighting prowess there, too.

JVR - one of the best net front presences in the game for a decade, if not longer. Not as good as he was, but could be an option to change things up if the main pp is stagnant.

Montreal signed Vincent Arseneau to play in Laval to be their goon they could call him up to go after someone like Reaves for a game.

 

[Mrb1p]

Montreal signed Vincent Arseneau to play in Laval to be their goon they could call him up to go after someone like Reaves for a game.

Arseneau isn't even good for the AHL, calling that plug up to the NHL would be a total farce.

 

[DAChampion]

I think DA understands what you are saying and I do agree with him in that there would be no harm in starting Hutson, Mailloux, Reinbacher and Engstrom in Laval as this group has a collective total of 3 NHL games under their belts and only Mailloux with a full season of North American pro hockey experience. There is the inevitable certainty of injuries that will almost always have one of the NHL spots up for grabs so in effect you have an eight man NHL dcorps at a minimum for much of the season. There is no rush this season to force a trade for below market return just to open a spot. The trade deadline might be the real deadline when Hughes would acknowledge that he would need to make a move but until then there is no real rush as injuries will almost certainly allow for more than 8 dmen to see significant time in the NHL.

I think we all agree that it would be great to see Hughes move a dman out for a fair return sooner than later but I do not see him acquiescing to an offer that is below market value due to internal pressure that typically doesn't seem to force him to make such moves. The only time that I think he would even consider relenting to this pressure would be at the deadline.

My personal opinion is that an injury during training camp/exhibition will push a team to approach Hughes which will give him the leverage required to procure a satisfactory return. Of course the same can happen internally and we could experience an injury or two that allows for one or two of the Laval bound kids an opportunity to play in the NHL.

I think Hutson is the player that will put the most pressure on management to make the team as there will be a ton of external pressure and I also feel that he might be the least accepting of having to start in Laval as he is a fiery competitor and definitely has it in him to get pissed off. This didn't stop Hughes from sending Xhekaj down so it may not matter but I suspect it will play a role on some level as Hughes does lean towards harmony rather than dissension. Perhaps Struble goes to Laval and Hutson stays, I just know that these are awfully tough decisions that include information and dynamics that nobody here is privy to. I believe that you, I and DA agree on the vast majority of this conversation, it is just the minutia where we may differ and this also happens to be where we can not see behind the curtain to really parse objectivity from subjectivity.

Thank you.

What I'm hoping happens is that some or all three of Barron, Harris, and Struble play well enough this year that Hughes can offload them at the deadline (or next off-season) for good value. There may be additional value in trading Savard, for example.

It's likely that none of those pieces have the potential to be good enough to get the Habs what they need in a trade: an impact forward. But when I think of the history of past trades involving impact forwards, a good metaphor is "four coins of silver for one coin of gold", so Hughes can work toward this by acquiring more 1st round picks, where late 1sts are silver coins in my analogy.

There are a lot of hypotheticals in my suggested plan, but it also includes a lot of backups:

- One (or a package of) of Savard, Harris, Struble, Barron is traded for a late 1st or equivalent by the deadline.
- Reinbacher, Hutson, Mailloux, Engstrom start in the AHL. They can NHL time if there are injuries (likely), if one or more of the above players is traded (likely), or of one of the above mentioned players is injured.
- Maybe we're wrong about Barron or Struble, and they should be on the long term roster, and Mailloux is the one who should be traded. Or,
- The Habs would rather keep Mailloux than Barron, but the former is the cost to acquire a gold coin.

So the system has a lot of flexibility, what I think businessmen call "resilience", so waiting until around the deadline is preferable.

 

[Deus ex machina]

I have no idea why you brought up scouts. We aren't scouting our own players.
So I really don't care what a scout may or may not have said about Barron it's irrelevant.

I meant pro scouts from other teams evaluating Laval's players. Of course MTL scouts wouldn't devaluate Barron.

I remember Basu saying that the scouts were very impressed with Reinbacher. One thought that he was NHL ready.
But he also said that they were less impressed with Barron.

I just thought having professional scouts' opinions about a player was relevant to the conversation.
To show how he's thought of around the league and to give a more impartial view of the player.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I meant pro scouts from other teams evaluating Laval's players. Of course MTL scouts wouldn't devaluate Barron.

I remember Basu saying that the scouts were very impressed with Reinbacher. One thought that he was NHL ready.
But he also said that they were less impressed with Barron.

I just thought having professional scouts' opinions about a player was relevant to the conversation.
To show how he's thought of around the league and to give a more impartial view of the player.

If Reinbacher and Hutson show they’re NHL ready at camp, which I think is a high probability, I’d imagine Barron/Savard and Harris are getting moved real quick to make space. This org has shown they prefer to develop their young stars in the NHL with MSL and it’s worked very well for them so far. Wouldn’t be surprised at all to see Hutson and Reinbacher as regulars to start the season or by Xmas.

Too many bodies and lots of cap space makes Hughes a happy man.

 

[vokiel]

What if we offersheet Seider ?

Guhle-Seider
Hutson-Reinbacher

Instantly becomes the best top 4 of the lates 20's.

Heck, even for this year
Guhle-Seider
Matheson-Savard
Hutson-Xhekaj

is a pretty friggin great top 6 and I don't see the Habs finishing too low, definitely pass over Detroit.

The fervor against OS is also shared in the GM circle it seems. It happens very rarely.

Damn yes, lets offer sheet Seider!

 

[Mrb1p]

If Reinbacher and Hutson show they’re NHL ready at camp, which I think is a high probability, I’d imagine Barron/Savard and Harris are getting moved real quick to make space. This org has shown they prefer to develop their young stars in the NHL with MSL and it’s worked very well for them so far. Wouldn’t be surprised at all to see Hutson and Reinbacher as regulars to start the season or by Xmas.

Too many bodies and lots of cap space makes Hughes a happy man.

Moving the only credible veteran this team has would be such a travesty. For what? A late 2nd maybe? Move Barron, Struble, Matheson, etc way before Savard.

A reminder that our strength lies in the left side and not the right side, moving our only NHL RD would be incredibly asinine.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Yeah, let's get the knuckleheads. Habs are too soff!

Yes, because there's so much skill oozing left and the Habs aren't soft...

Montreal signed Vincent Arseneau to play in Laval to be their goon they could call him up to go after someone like Reaves for a game.

He's for Laval and he's barely good enough a regular shift in the A. Martin and Co would probably be 40, or 50 point players in the A.

I wouldn't be opposed to Arseneau getting his first NHL game just as a good gesture and hope he re-signs for next year, but to call him up specifically is weak sauce when he's not an NHL, or any point in his career.

Yeah, seems odd that calling someone up for a tough game is different than just inserting someone, but it weirdly is.

That said I imagine the Habs do nothing again in terms of ptos.

 

[Gustave]

What if we offersheet Seider ?

Guhle-Seider
Hutson-Reinbacher

Instantly becomes the best top 4 of the lates 20's.

Heck, even for this year
Guhle-Seider
Matheson-Savard
Hutson-Xhekaj

is a pretty friggin great top 6 and I don't see the Habs finishing too low, definitely pass over Detroit.

The fervor against OS is also shared in the GM circle it seems. It happens very rarely.

I’m in for that ride. What do we care about picks? We have a whole second set of picks this season so whatever. Getting a top RHD for a decade is worth it.

Go gangbusters and offer something ridiculous moneywise.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Moving the only credible veteran this team has would be such a travesty. For what? A late 2nd maybe? Move Barron, Struble, Matheson, etc way before Savard.

A reminder that our strength lies in the left side and not the right side, moving our only NHL RD would be incredibly asinine.

Savard is getting moved this year. Even he knows it. It’s a matter of when, not if.

 

[Mrb1p]

I’m in for that ride. What do we care about picks? We have a whole second set of picks this season so whatever. Getting a top RHD for a decade is worth it.

Go gangbusters and offer something ridiculous moneywise.

You guys might think I'm crazy but I'd offer 11.477 to Seider or Dobson.

We have a first and a 2nd this year, so we'd essentially only have 3 years without a first (And that's not accounting to moving Matheson and Montambeault who should both get close to a 1st.

Savard is getting moved this year. Even he knows it. It’s a matter of when, not if.

If he is moved it's because Reinbacher and Barron have established themselves as top 4 options. There is no one else on that right side, it is barren.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

If Reinbacher and Hutson show they’re NHL ready at camp, which I think is a high probability, I’d imagine Barron/Savard and Harris are getting moved real quick to make space. This org has shown they prefer to develop their young stars in the NHL with MSL and it’s worked very well for them so far. Wouldn’t be surprised at all to see Hutson and Reinbacher as regulars to start the season or by Xmas.

Too many bodies and lots of cap space makes Hughes a happy man.

This organization has shown that they are patient and do not move players for dimes on the dollar due to internal/external pressures. I do not know what they will do as there are just too many iterations of how these scenarios may unfold and there are too many unknown variables that have yet to be revealed. If we are trying to be objective we will prioritize past precedent as a forecaster of future decisions and this would point to patience and the maximizing of assets. They absolutely will not trade a group of dmen at a discount just to make room for entirely inexperienced young defenders to make the team out of camp or shortly thereafter......this much I am confident in.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Thank you.

What I'm hoping happens is that some or all three of Barron, Harris, and Struble play well enough this year that Hughes can offload them at the deadline (or next off-season) for good value. There may be additional value in trading Savard, for example.

It's likely that none of those pieces have the potential to be good enough to get the Habs what they need in a trade: an impact forward. But when I think of the history of past trades involving impact forwards, a good metaphor is "four coins of silver for one coin of gold", so Hughes can work toward this by acquiring more 1st round picks, where late 1sts are silver coins in my analogy.

There are a lot of hypotheticals in my suggested plan, but it also includes a lot of backups:

- One (or a package of) of Savard, Harris, Struble, Barron is traded for a late 1st or equivalent by the deadline.
- Reinbacher, Hutson, Mailloux, Engstrom start in the AHL. They can NHL time if there are injuries (likely), if one or more of the above players is traded (likely), or of one of the above mentioned players is injured.
- Maybe we're wrong about Barron or Struble, and they should be on the long term roster, and Mailloux is the one who should be traded. Or,
- The Habs would rather keep Mailloux than Barron, but the former is the cost to acquire a gold coin.

So the system has a lot of flexibility, what I think businessmen call "resilience", so waiting until around the deadline is preferable.

There are a lot of possibilities but I certainly would not rule out a trade or two very early as long as Hughes can acquire a return that he deems satisfactory. There is no doubt the he knows that he will have to make the moves at sometime otherwise he will risk losing value that he believes to be currently in his hand.

I definitely think he would prefer to make a trade now as opposed to the deadline but there are no suitors for the return that he is currently seeking. This will change for a plethora of reasons including injury, performance and a shift in needs. I don't know when any of these variables will alter the market for our young dmen but they all have the potential to be actualized the moment that camp begins.

 

[DAChampion]

You guys might think I'm crazy but I'd offer 11.477 to Seider or Dobson.

Fortune favours the bold.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

You guys might think I'm crazy but I'd offer 11.477 to Seider or Dobson.

We have a first and a 2nd this year, so we'd essentially only have 3 years without a first (And that's not accounting to moving Matheson and Montambeault who should both get close to a 1st.

Chances of drafting and developping a better player with those picks are pretty low anyway. Seider and Dobson are elite.

 

[Weltschmerz]

What if we offersheet Seider ?

Guhle-Seider
Hutson-Reinbacher

Instantly becomes the best top 4 of the lates 20's.

Heck, even for this year
Guhle-Seider
Matheson-Savard
Hutson-Xhekaj

is a pretty friggin great top 6 and I don't see the Habs finishing too low, definitely pass over Detroit.

The fervor against OS is also shared in the GM circle it seems. It happens very rarely.

What number are you thinking of?

If you go with no player is allowed to make more than Suzuki then detroit matches that I guess.