HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024-25 Season

[ReHabs]

You know all I have to do is pull quotes from the Kirby thread in 2022 to demonstrate that it is revisionist history to say he leeched off of Nick and Caufield.

I never said leeched. I said he played with our two best forwards and a 50pt pace season is never amazing.

Literally no one thought this by the end of 2022 when Dach was carrying his own line and looking even more impactful than Nick. Don't make pull the quotes. Don't claim sincerity when you spew BS.

Why would I care what random commentators have to say about players when hyping them up? I’ve seen the comments here — you might notice I tend to disagree with many of them.

But I know the drill, if Dach breaks out, you'll quiet for a bit, then come back half apologetic, a post here and there, until the next slump where you will fill every thread with the same arguments over and over again.

What do you think are my arguments about Dach? I’ve seen he’s been shit so far and should’ve been scratched fifteen games ago. I didn’t say he should be waived, sold, traded, etc. If he breaks out I’ll be happy, and said as much just yesterday.

More partisan nonsense.

We already saw the playbook with Slaf. Went missing half of 2023, came back pretending to be a victim, and now 30 games in the season you don't stop spewing the negative.

It was 2024 and I was not permitted to post in the Slaf thread.

Your sensitivity to general “negative” comments is absurd on its face. Who cares if I’m negative?! Talk hockey, it’s a fan forum. Stop the gossip crap.

I feel a lot of you old guard commentators are hyper-invested in the Hughes regime because of how frustrated you must’ve been with the Bergevin years. As a result of your own experience, it’s is plainly clear you refuse to acknowledge even the slightest divergence as genuine… not my problem, pal.

 

[Beendair Donedat]

So you want another project?

I dunno, the recent list of players that left Buffalo and went on to win cups is pretty impressive.

Eichel, Reinhart, ROR.

Granted they were far more established and went to contending teams, but he’s worth kicking the tires on anyway, see what the asking price would be. The Habs desperately need a first and second line center. Suzuki has been asked to do too much for years now. Ultimately I’d like to grab an elite number one guy at the draft, like Hagens, so we’d have that lethal one-two punch down the middle. But we will likely end up with Desnoyers (will be a solid NHL player but not an elite number one center).

The big thing to consider in any deal for Cozens would be the contract you’re acquiring. He’s got a lot of years at a large number left. If the Sabres really want him gone that certainly factors into the offer. Meanwhile the Habs had better be damned certain that he’s the player they want because that’s a hefty deal. I wouldn’t do the aforementioned Dach swap, simply because of their respective contracts. Dach isn’t going to get a major raise on his next deal, he hasn’t earned it yet. The next one will be a show me contract.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Bottom line with Dach is: it will take time (meaning maybe 12 more months) before we know for sure what he is after his injury. His cap hit is low, so if he develop a bottom 6 type of game, or he's better suited on the wing on the top 6, so be it.

That said, the season so far has provided some key intel on what is needed for this team to move forward. In the absence of Dach at 2C, KH must find, sooner rather then later a guy that can carry that role. If Dach emerge back as a viable 2C in the future, great, now you have trade assets.

We also know that LD is set for now with Guhle, Hutson and Xhekaj. That said, the RD is to be completely re-model. Yeah at some point Reinbacher and Mailloux may step in, but we know that Barron, Matheson, Savard, Struble are not a long term solution.

Problem is that MTL is not alone needing these peices and there are almost none available right now.

See - this is a great post.

It doesn't summarize that X player is ass and needs to be waived.. it's providing real interpretation of what might be going on with a player and what it means in the grand scheme of things.. and isn't overtly positive because it acknowledges our needs aren't easy needs to fill and will be difficult to find solutions.

Great way to balance viewpoints but keeps things in a better perspective without veering too far into unrealistic positivity or insane negativity.

Would like it 1000 times if I could.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

To be fair to Dach, he's coming back from a serious injury.

Caufield took a bit to look like himself again.

I'd wait to see how Dach is at this time next season.

His value is already lower than what you paid in 13th(Romanov), so if it lowers a bit more, oh well.

 

[Sorinth]

Bottom line with Dach is: it will take time (meaning maybe 12 more months) before we know for sure what he is after his injury. His cap hit is low, so if he develop a bottom 6 type of game, or he's better suited on the wing on the top 6, so be it.

That said, the season so far has provided some key intel on what is needed for this team to move forward. In the absence of Dach at 2C, KH must find, sooner rather then later a guy that can carry that role. If Dach emerge back as a viable 2C in the future, great, now you have trade assets.

We also know that LD is set for now with Guhle, Hutson and Xhekaj. That said, the RD is to be completely re-model. Yeah at some point Reinbacher and Mailloux may step in, but we know that Barron, Matheson, Savard, Struble are not a long term solution.

Problem is that MTL is not alone needing these peices and there are almost none available right now.

I think the big question facing Hughes with regards to that 2C spot is do we want to move significant assets to address it, or do we look for a cheap stopgap solution while we wait for Dach/Newhook/Hage/Our 1st OA pick this year/etc... to take over that spot.

It's obviously hard to say without actually seeing the offers on the table but as examples do we give up say Hage or CGY's 1st for someone like Cozens or do we go with the "free" option of someone like Henrique?

 

[WeThreeKings]

I think the big question facing Hughes with regards to that 2C spot is do we want to move significant assets to address it, or do we look for a cheap stopgap solution while we wait for Dach/Newhook/Hage/Our 1st OA pick this year/etc... to take over that spot.

It's obviously hard to say without actually seeing the offers on the table but as examples do we give up say Hage or CGY's 1st for someone like Cozens or do we go with the "free" option of someone like Henrique?

I don't think they'd have any appetite in moving Hage unless you are getting an Eichel level guy coming back. Cozens isn't exactly a prototypical C either so I'm not sure I'm moving that Calgary pick for him either.

They are obviously going to ride it out this season, then I think you see what shakes out. You could get Bennett in the off-season of free agency. Or a center could become available because of cap squeezes etc out of one of the contending teams.

I think they were looking at adding a center even before Dach had trouble returning from the injury, longer and harder than we anticipated.

 

[Kosseca]

I think the big question facing Hughes with regards to that 2C spot is do we want to move significant assets to address it, or do we look for a cheap stopgap solution while we wait for Dach/Newhook/Hage/Our 1st OA pick this year/etc... to take over that spot.

It's obviously hard to say without actually seeing the offers on the table but as examples do we give up say Hage or CGY's 1st for someone like Cozens or do we go with the "free" option of someone like Henrique?

I know some people are more worried about RD, but I'm more concerns with our C situation right now. At RD, you have imperfect solution short and long term, but at 2C, you have NO solution right now short and medium term and a big maybe with Hage long term.

So going back to you post, yeah... I wish I was a fly on the wall and knew what was available at C around the NHL right now, because there are many way to approach this: go young with another Dach/Newhook kind of deal (get an under developed player) or go with a more mature/Vet like Monahan. I see value in both to be honest. The bottom line for me is what are you giving in return and how that player fit in the medium term rebuild. And I'm dismissing the UFA route for now, because I believe that addressing this need should be a high priority in the next few weeks. But as they say, takes two to tango and I dont see any obvious play to be made here.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I personally hope Hughes makes no trades since his track record of losing everyone of his trades is evident. This organization just can't get their act together no matter what they do, who they hire...nothing ever works anymore.

Being Bergy back as a consultant. He’s was at least great at trades.

 

[Sorinth]

I don't think they'd have any appetite in moving Hage unless you are getting an Eichel level guy coming back. Cozens isn't exactly a prototypical C either so I'm not sure I'm moving that Calgary pick for him either.

They are obviously going to ride it out this season, then I think you see what shakes out. You could get Bennett in the off-season of free agency. Or a center could become available because of cap squeezes etc out of one of the contending teams.

I think they were looking at adding a center even before Dach had trouble returning from the injury, longer and harder than we anticipated.

I'm not sure I move Hage either, but Cozens was just an example of a guy rumoured to be available but would still cost a lot. The real question is do we move high quality assets to address the problem, whether it's this season or this offseason is to me kind of irrelevant.

For Bennett it's of course how comfortable we are with massively overpaying a guy whose likely to have 1 season of 50+ points. Personally I think overpaying by a 2m cap hit is mostly fine so long as the player delivers on what he is rather then what he's paid. It's why you go for those long term deals for young guys coming off their ELCs, you hope to save a couple million so that you can get outbid other teams and get your guy. Is Bennet that guy, not so sure, but I do like him.

 

[Sorinth]

Being Bergy back as a consultant. He’s was at least great at trades.

He wasn't though, he was just very afraid of overpaying which sure meant he didn't lose many trades but it also meant he didn't win very many either. Being overly cautious doesn't make someone great at trades.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He wasn't though, he was just very afraid of overpaying which sure meant he didn't lose many trades but it also meant he didn't win very many either. Being overly cautious doesn't make someone great at trades.

That's false IMO. Bergevin was very active on the phones and this is well known knowledge. He was involved in a lot of trades and well more than the average GM.

I don't want him around our team anymore but lets stop trying to find reasons to devalue Bergevin. There is enough to find but trades was not one of them.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I'm not sure I move Hage either, but Cozens was just an example of a guy rumoured to be available but would still cost a lot. The real question is do we move high quality assets to address the problem, whether it's this season or this offseason is to me kind of irrelevant.

For Bennett it's of course how comfortable we are with massively overpaying a guy whose likely to have 1 season of 50+ points. Personally I think overpaying by a 2m cap hit is mostly fine so long as the player delivers on what he is rather then what he's paid. It's why you go for those long term deals for young guys coming off their ELCs, you hope to save a couple million so that you can get outbid other teams and get your guy. Is Bennet that guy, not so sure, but I do like him.

I think we would move high quality assets to address the problem if the right solution is there. I know Cozens is your example but he's not the right solution for me. Now if they decided to move on from Tage Thompson, that's someone where I think you'd be foolish not to do it.

Bennett is someone who is going to get overpaid and I don't think his production is going to carry over, but you'd basically be paying for what he brings above just his production and now you'd have both Dach and Bennett as options for that spot while Hage develops.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm not sure I move Hage either, but Cozens was just an example of a guy rumoured to be available but would still cost a lot. The real question is do we move high quality assets to address the problem, whether it's this season or this offseason is to me kind of irrelevant.

For Bennett it's of course how comfortable we are with massively overpaying a guy whose likely to have 1 season of 50+ points. Personally I think overpaying by a 2m cap hit is mostly fine so long as the player delivers on what he is rather then what he's paid. It's why you go for those long term deals for young guys coming off their ELCs, you hope to save a couple million so that you can get outbid other teams and get your guy. Is Bennet that guy, not so sure, but I do like him.

Sabres would probably want a more mature RD or mature C in return for Cozens. They won't be taking futures or someone in development/mature years. Nice to talk about but we don't have what they are looking for. We need it too!

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

That's false IMO. Bergevin was very active on the phones and this is well known knowledge. He was involved in a lot of trades and well more than the average GM.

I don't want him around our team anymore but lets stop trying to find reasons to devalue Bergevin. There is enough to find but trades was not one of them.

Didn't seem he said he wasn't active, just didn't really take a swing, especially what the Habs needed.

He traded 0 1st round picks until at the end where he dealt the one he got for KK for Dvorak.

He traded up in the draft that I can recall 1 time and that was to get Brett Lernout.

His biggest trades were Subban for Weber( big trade)

Pacioretty for Suzuki, Tatar and a 2nd.

Sergachev for Drouin

Erik Cole for Ryder and a pick

2 2nd round picks for Shaw

Eller for 2 2nd round picks.

2nd, Sebastian Collberg for rental in Vanek.

His plan was to sign Tavares and/or Duchene to fill that centre position.

He never traded a 1st, prospect and a roster player for an established player to help the team.

The guy was not a fan of taking risks and held on to his first round picks for them to become nothing.

 

[Vachon23]

Didn't seem he said he wasn't active, just didn't really take a swing, especially what the Habs needed.

He traded 0 1st round picks until at the end where he dealt the one he got for KK for Dvorak.

He traded up in the draft that I can recall 1 time and that was to get Brett Lernout.

His biggest trades were Subban for Weber( big trade)

Pacioretty for Suzuki, Tatar and a 2nd.

Sergachev for Drouin

Erik Cole for Ryder and a pick

2 2nd round picks for Shaw

Eller for 2 2nd round picks.

2nd, Sebastian Collberg for rental in Vanek.

His plan was to sign Tavares and/or Duchene to fill that centre position.

He never traded a 1st, prospect and a roster player for an established player to help the team.

The guy was not a fan of taking risks and held on to his first round picks for them to become nothing.

Exactly ! When you have:
- The best goalie in the NHL and a top 5 players in the league
- One of the best Dmen in the league
- One of the best goal scorer in the league

all entering their prime while having good veteran like Plekanec/Markov, you should be all in and take risk to bring the missing element (1st line center)

 

[Sorinth]

That's false IMO. Bergevin was very active on the phones and this is well known knowledge. He was involved in a lot of trades and well more than the average GM.

I don't want him around our team anymore but lets stop trying to find reasons to devalue Bergevin. There is enough to find but trades was not one of them.

Being active on the phones and then not doing something because the price is too high is exactly the type of behaviour that fits what I was saying. Being involved in lots of trades that didn't happen doesn't make you great at trades.

 

[Saundies]

Didn't seem he said he wasn't active, just didn't really take a swing, especially what the Habs needed.

He traded 0 1st round picks until at the end where he dealt the one he got for KK for Dvorak.

He traded up in the draft that I can recall 1 time and that was to get Brett Lernout.

His biggest trades were Subban for Weber( big trade)

Pacioretty for Suzuki, Tatar and a 2nd.

Sergachev for Drouin

Erik Cole for Ryder and a pick

2 2nd round picks for Shaw

Eller for 2 2nd round picks.

2nd, Sebastian Collberg for rental in Vanek.

His plan was to sign Tavares and/or Duchene to fill that centre position.

He never traded a 1st, prospect and a roster player for an established player to help the team.

The guy was not a fan of taking risks and held on to his first round picks for them to become nothing.

Honestly his best risk-move is something he didn't take to the full extent when he signed Aho. He should have given him 10 mil/AAV at the very least.

Instead he half-assed it and looked stupid. It was an insanely easy match for Carolina to make. I didn't even think for a second they wouldn't match.

You have to make the offer stupid as hell to get him. The way we developed first rounders during his entire tenure we could afford to lose 2-3 and not blink and we'd still have our #1 C playing here.

 

[sampollock]

A 2nd line centre is hard to find. no Maybe centres, KH needs to bide his time and use the draft picks he has to find a good 2nd centre that can win draws

no project centre pls

 

[Kiss Under the Guy]

Bennett is someone who is going to get overpaid and I don't think his production is going to carry over, but you'd basically be paying for what he brings above just his production and now you'd have both Dach and Bennett as options for that spot while Hage develops.

Even if Bennet don't end up being overpaid and his production carries over, he is not the type of player you bring in at this stage of a rebuild. He won't age well, and betting on him being as effective as he is now in 2 years is a gamble a rebuilding team shouldn't be doing.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Even if Bennet don't end up being overpaid and his production carries over, he is not the type of player you bring in at this stage of a rebuild. He won't age well, and betting on him being as effective as he is now in 2 years is a gamble a rebuilding team shouldn't be doing.

I'm not sure if he won't age well.. he didn't have much mileage on his body until coming to Florida. I don't think we'd even get him, he still represents the idea more than the man.

 

[dauv]

See - this is a great post.

It doesn't summarize that X player is ass and needs to be waived.. it's providing real interpretation of what might be going on with a player and what it means in the grand scheme of things.. and isn't overtly positive because it acknowledges our needs aren't easy needs to fill and will be difficult to find solutions.

Great way to balance viewpoints but keeps things in a better perspective without veering too far into unrealistic positivity or insane negativity.

Would like it 1000 times if I could.

TRUE but this board s no place to have great insights, intelligent posts or analysis, it's a place to vent, spew about which current players sucks, especially after 1 bad shift or at most 1 bad game or say that this is the player we need as he will be a superstar after again 1 good shift or at most 1 good game.

This is neither the place or the forum for anything else than that. Now let me go turn down the music and keep yelling at clouds. God Damn it, where are my glasses

 

[BLONG7]

That's false IMO. Bergevin was very active on the phones and this is well known knowledge. He was involved in a lot of trades and well more than the average GM.

I don't want him around our team anymore but lets stop trying to find reasons to devalue Bergevin. There is enough to find but trades was not one of them.

Sergachev says hold my beer..............there is much to discuss.

A 2nd line centre is hard to find. no Maybe centres, KH needs to bide his time and use the draft picks he has to find a good 2nd centre that can win draws

no project centre pls

Exactly...............we need a solution, not a project.
They are out there, we simply have to find him. Picks, Prospects etc or the potential of a ufa this summer.

 

[Vachon23]

It’s happening !

 

[ChesterNimitz]

I don't think they'd have any appetite in moving Hage unless you are getting an Eichel level guy coming back. Cozens isn't exactly a prototypical C either so I'm not sure I'm moving that Calgary pick for him either.

They are obviously going to ride it out this season, then I think you see what shakes out. You could get Bennett in the off-season of free agency. Or a center could become available because of cap squeezes etc out of one of the contending teams.

I think they were looking at adding a center even before Dach had trouble returning from the injury, longer and harder than we anticipated.

Other than Hutson, I don't think at this point there is any player more untouchable to Hughes than Hage . You're taking about a player who is excelling in the NCAA against high end, accomplished players many of whom are 4 to 5 years older than him. Hage, who plays a premier position, possess high end skating and offensive skills, is on track to developing into a game breaking offensive force. He'll only get more dominant as he gets stronger. There's no way Hughes is trading away that potential. He doesn't want the infamy of having traded away a future star.

 

[Kosseca]

Other than Hutson, I don't think at this point there is any player more untouchable to Hughes than Hage . You're taking about a player who is excelling in the NCAA against high end, accomplished players many of whom are 4 to 5 years older than him. Hage, who plays a premier position, possess high end skating and offensive skills, is on track to developing into a game breaking offensive force. He'll only get more dominant as he gets stronger. There's no way Hughes is trading away that potential. He doesn't want the infamy of having traded away a future star.

Psssst.... Demidov is looking at you kinda weird right now.

oh, I agree with the rest of what you said.