Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024-25 Season

[Pompeius Magnus]

With Dvorak finally leaving this season, I'm perfectly fine with Newhook as the 3C starting next season. With the right wingers, you can build a serviceable fast energy line around him. If Beck has a strong camp, then you bump Newhook to his wing and he can at least help the rookie settle .

 

[Habs 4 Life]

With Dvorak finally leaving this season, I'm perfectly fine with Newhook as the 3C starting next season. With the right wingers, you can build a decent fast energy line around him.

That's what I've been saying in the last couple of weeks, it sucks to have traded some 1st round picks but at the end of the day to build a solid lineup you need to have a great 3rd line. If that's what Newhook and Dach are going to be, so be it! Let's accept it and move on to find a true top 6 center

 

[CzarDemidov]

“Kirby Dach Played With Turds”


This stuff is easily verifiable. Why exaggerate? By far his most common trio was with Suzuki and Caufield, and it was basically where he made all his points. In fact, this was the most common trio among all Habs forwards that season.

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com...&games=2022-2023:R:99&period=ALL&situation=EV

A 53-pt pace season is not amazing. Have some standards.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

“Kirby Dach Played With Turds”


This stuff is easily verifiable. Why exaggerate? By far his most common trio was with Suzuki and Caufield, and it was basically where he made all his points. In fact, this was the most common trio among all Habs forwards that season.

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com...&games=2022-2023:R:99&period=ALL&situation=EV

A 53-pt pace season is not amazing. Have some standards.

I wouldn't know where to look it up. I guess Slaf didn't get to play on the top line that season.

That's what I've been saying in the last couple of weeks, it sucks to have traded some 1st round picks but at the end of the day to build a solid lineup you need to have a great 3rd line. If that's what Newhook and Dach are going to be, so be it! Let's accept it and move on to find a true top 6 center

Newhook should be a capable scoring line forward but maybe not on a Cup contender.

 

[Andy]

View attachment 946594

"Dach was looking amazing before the leg injury.. let's not rewrite history"

You're a smart poster and I am disappointed how disingenuous you are with this post.

 

[knuck]

I've realized as I have gotten older that people in general have terrible memory and bad (let alone terrible) memory leads to a bad interpretation of what actually happened.
We weren't high on Dach because he had an amazing 53 points season. We were high on Dach because a switch in his game had suddently flipped. It was like a toddler realizing a new little brother could be useful to put the blame on. Now what to do with that newly acquired tool, humm? Dach had suddently realized how big, strong and mean he could play. He was suddently confident, agressive and dominant.

This is how he got his (Montreal) hype. Not because of the stat sheets.
We all know how the rest of the story went but I'm curious how the narrative will change again in a few years when people's memory fails them again. After all the terrible, ridiculous takes I've read on this board in the last 20 years, I wouldn't be surprised for his story to turn around the fact that he was a great ambassador for young disabled Vietnamese players

 

[CzarDemidov]

You're a smart poster and I am disappointed how disingenuous you are with this post.

I sincerely think it is disingenuous to refer to any of Dach’s professional seasons as “looking amazing” and I sincerely don’t care to disagree with some of you who are too in the bag with your bizarre commentator clique to admit something as clear as this.

Who are we fooling here? Any neutral fan would laugh at this conversation.

Dach’s hot steak came from playing next to Suzuki and Caufield, it was encouraging and exciting and we were all devastated by his subsequent knee injury. In the end he was never yet amazing and it doesn’t excuse his awful efforts this season.

 

[Tyson]

I personally hope Hughes makes no trades since his track record of losing everyone of his trades is evident. This organization just can't get their act together no matter what they do, who they hire...nothing ever works anymore.

 

[Habby4Life]

He was getting better as the season went along. As usual stats are only part of the story. And in any event 50 pt pace playing with turds is very good.

Unfortunately you have it wrong. Dach played 42% of the season with CC and NS. And of his 20 regular season points half of them he got with on the top line playing wing. The remain points he got on the PP, so turds no. He like many others benefited from NS who makes most guys look good.

They traded for him to be the 2c which it looks like he won’t be, can’t win faceoffs and is lazy without the puck.

So yeah, this trade is a failure because next summer they are going to have to use assets to acquire a 2c.

 

[salbutera]

I personally hope Hughes makes no trades since his track record of losing everyone of his trades is evident. This organization just can't get their act together no matter what they do, who they hire...nothing ever works anymore.

Nothing has worked since playing field equalized from controlled socialism to market based system post 1994 lockout - once players gained autonomy Habs have been irrelevant

Move this org to Houston & they will become a perennial Cup contender like VGK within 2-summers

 

[Habby4Life]

I sincerely think it is disingenuous to refer to any of Dach’s professional seasons as “looking amazing” and I sincerely don’t care to disagree with some of you who are too in the bag with your bizarre commentator clique to admit something as clear as this.

Who are we fooling here? Any neutral fan would laugh at this conversation.

Dach’s hot steak came from playing next to Suzuki and Caufield, it was encouraging and exciting and we were all devastated by his subsequent knee injury. In the end he was never yet amazing and it doesn’t excuse his awful efforts this season.

Exactly, he got half of his 20 pts 5v5 playing wing with NS and spent 42% of the first line. The rest of his points were PP

Amazing, he hasn’t shown anything to suggest he is a C. A bad trade because they now have to use more assets to find a 2c

The truth is hard for some. Amazing, lol.

 

[Habby4Life]

Nothing has worked since playing field equalized from controlled socialism to market based system post 1994 lockout - once players gained autonomy Habs have been irrelevant

Move this org to Houston & they will become a perennial Cup contender like VGK within 2-summers

I’ll go with a string of incredibly shitty general managers.

I personally hope Hughes makes no trades since his track record of losing everyone of his trades is evident. This organization just can't get their act together no matter what they do, who they hire...nothing ever works anymore.

His trade for nhl talent have been poor. Frankly, got to question the habs NHL scouts evaluation prowess.

 

[Andy]

I sincerely think it is disingenuous to refer to any of Dach’s professional seasons as “looking amazing” and I sincerely don’t care to disagree with some of you who are too in the bag with your bizarre commentator clique to admit something as clear as this.

Who are we fooling here? Any neutral fan would laugh at this conversation.

Dach’s hot steak came from playing next to Suzuki and Caufield, it was encouraging and exciting and we were all devastated by his subsequent knee injury. In the end he was never yet amazing and it doesn’t excuse his awful efforts this season.

Nah man, you are being disingenuous here. Sorry. I can't agree. You're trying to revise history to support a narrative you've endlessly been spewing since the habs passed on Wright. And I do believe you are disingenuous because as soon as a narrative doesn't go your way, you go MIA and silent.

Youre a smarter poster and hockey mind than that.

 

[Habby4Life]

Dach was looking amazing before the leg injury.. let's not rewrite history because he looks bad after losing an entire season and is playing within the confines of a roster that has yet to find a semblance of their play late in last season.

Newhook also had a pretty solid end to last year as well. He's playing adequate hockey right now and should settle in as a 3rd line winger who uses his speed offensively and defensively.

If he isn’t a 2c then it’s a bad trade. They didn’t get him to play the wing. If he is still horrible game 82 they should get rid of him.

“Kirby Dach Played With Turds”


This stuff is easily verifiable. Why exaggerate? By far his most common trio was with Suzuki and Caufield, and it was basically where he made all his points. In fact, this was the most common trio among all Habs forwards that season.

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com...&games=2022-2023:R:99&period=ALL&situation=EV

A 53-pt pace season is not amazing. Have some standards.

I’d hit like if I could
Not hard to find this info. NS makes a lot of guys look good.

 

[Chose]

I don't really care if he is a winger instead of a center. That trade value was not lost, since we haven't paid proven 1C value in assets to get him.
And I am patient enough to wait 1y to see if he gets back to being a productive hockey player once his injury and recovery are long gone.
I personnaly think he will.

 

[WeThreeKings]

If he isn’t a 2c then it’s a bad trade. They didn’t get him to play the wing. If he is still horrible game 82 they should get rid of him.


I’d hit like if I could
Not hard to find this info. NS makes a lot of guys look good.

Things aren't black and white.

If the Ducks draft McKenna and he gets hit by a bus then never plays hockey again, is that a bad pick?

The Kirby Dach trade was a good trade, it was immediately showing very good returns and then he missed an entire year with a brutal leg injury.

If that injury cost him part of his upside, it doesn't make the trade bad, it makes the outcome unfavorable but those are things that happen.

Moving Romanov for a middle 6 player of Dach's skill and size, even if he doesn't remedy the 2C situation long term is still an acceptable outcome to that trade.

 

[Hacketts]

lol some terrible takes on this board this season.

 

[McGees]

Dach was poised to break out 23/24 season....end of 22/23 he was playing like a beast and it continued right into the following training camp.
MANY were talking about him being the potential #1 and sliding Nick down to #2.
Not sure what he ends up now but not so long ago he was showing great signs.

 

[Habby4Life]

Things aren't black and white.

If the Ducks draft McKenna and he gets hit by a bus then never plays hockey again, is that a bad pick?

The Kirby Dach trade was a good trade, it was immediately showing very good returns and then he missed an entire year with a brutal leg injury.

If that injury cost him part of his upside, it doesn't make the trade bad, it makes the outcome unfavorable but those are things that happen.

Moving Romanov for a middle 6 player of Dach's skill and size, even if he doesn't remedy the 2C situation long term is still an acceptable outcome to that trade.

You’re right not black and white.

No one can foresee injuries, specifically severe ones.

The difference is Kirby before he even got here didn’t show he was a legit C and in his time here that has continued. He is brutal at the dot, and very lackadaisical in his own end.

Showed some returns sure playing with Nick, most do. I will agree if he turns this around (even as a wing) then I’d be ok with the trade but so far I don’t like his work ethic or intensity one bit. If you can’t score, work your tail off without the puck, he doesn’t do that. That’s the difference between him retuning from an injury and CC returning.

time will tell, I hope I’m wrong for the habs sake.

 

[CzarDemidov]

Nah man, you are being disingenuous here. Sorry. I can't agree. You're trying to revise history to support a narrative you've endlessly been spewing since the habs passed on Wright. And I do believe you are disingenuous because as soon as a narrative doesn't go your way, you go MIA and silent.

Youre a smarter poster and hockey mind than that.

I’ve already claimed to my sincerity. If you ever have any hockey to talk, I’m always game. This clique stuff is not for me.

 

[Habs Halifax]

With Dvorak finally leaving this season, I'm perfectly fine with Newhook as the 3C starting next season. With the right wingers, you can build a serviceable fast energy line around him. If Beck has a strong camp, then you bump Newhook to his wing and he can at least help the rookie settle .

Newhook should not be a full time center IMO. He's a winger who can play center if needed. So if it's needed (injuries for example), you do it. Otherwise, we need someone who can play that critical position better.... even at 3C.

I get it, we have a gap from Suzuki to Beck, Kapanen, Hage. Then the other layer is where do we start Demidov? Playing wing in the KHL but is on record saying he prefers to play center (more engaged in the play). If we agree with that, I'd sign a center (someone like Monahan) as a stop gap and play Demidov at center with that UFA signing and Suzuki. We need a vet mixed in there IMO. Someone to bridge the gap for when Beck, Kapanen, Hage are ready

I'm just not a fan at heading into a season with Newhook penciled in as one of our top 3C's. He should be used as insurance in case of injuries IMO. Having both Newhook and Dach play wing but center insurance would be a good plan. Both can play wing or center and it's a good problem to have.

The Habs roster is lacking a piece like Monahan or Danault to play behind Suzuki. Someone MSL can lean on equally as hard as Suzuki. You look at Kopitar and Danaut on the Kings and then look at that D core... The value the Kings are getting from those two centers is enormous and this extends well deeper than goals and assists.

 

[Andy]

I’ve already claimed to my sincerity. If you ever have any hockey to talk, I’m always game. This clique stuff is not for me.

You know all I have to do is pull quotes from the Kirby thread in 2022 to demonstrate that it is revisionist history to say he leeched off of Nick and Caufield.

Literally no one thought this by the end of 2022 when Dach was carrying his own line and looking even more impactful than Nick. Don't make pull the quotes. Don't claim sincerity when you spew BS.

But I know the drill, if Dach breaks out, you'll quiet for a bit, then come back half apologetic, a post here and there, until the next slump where you will fill every thread with the same arguments over and over again. We already saw the playbook with Slaf. Went missing half of 2023, came back pretending to be a victim, and now 30 games in the season you don't stop spewing the negative.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You’re right not black and white.

No one can foresee injuries, specifically severe ones.

The difference is Kirby before he even got here didn’t show he was a legit C and in his time here that has continued. He is brutal at the dot, and very lackadaisical in his own end.

Showed some returns sure playing with Nick, most do. I will agree if he turns this around (even as a wing) then I’d be ok with the trade but so far I don’t like his work ethic or intensity one bit. If you can’t score, work your tail off without the puck, he doesn’t do that. That’s the difference between him retuning from an injury and CC returning.

time will tell, I hope I’m wrong for the habs sake.

I always felt Both Dach and Newhook were wingers who can play center. Dach with his size/strength stands a better shot at being an effective center but it's not playing out like we would prefer.

If there was a trade to make, I'd consider one or both of Dach/Newhook. Don't hate the players but I just don't think they are the pieces we need. And my fear is they have very good seasons in the last year of their bridge deals and then get greedy and ask for a stupid contract based on one season because they worked harder. Then after the contract, they get complacent again. It's tracking that way anyway and you see this very often with many players. Not many are highly self motivated where their low points are not far off from their high points... regardless of contract status.

 

[Sorinth]

Dach was moved to the 2nd line for the final 16 games and had 12 points. So it's not wrong to say he was productive as the teams 2nd line center. Though the caveat being he was still on the #1 PP unit alongside Caufield/Suzuki.

And it's kind of interesting that for all the talk of this is the Dach that Chicago saw and gave up on, it's worth noting that they "gave up" on him after a disappointing year following an injury that caused him to miss almost a full season. So if it is the same story on repeat then we should actually expect a big season from Dach next year. Maybe he's just a guy who takes a long time to recover from injuries?

 

[Kosseca]

Dach was poised to break out 23/24 season....end of 22/23 he was playing like a beast and it continued right into the following training camp.
MANY were talking about him being the potential #1 and sliding Nick down to #2.
Not sure what he ends up now but not so long ago he as showing great signs.

Bottom line with Dach is: it will take time (meaning maybe 12 more months) before we know for sure what he is after his injury. His cap hit is low, so if he develop a bottom 6 type of game, or he's better suited on the wing on the top 6, so be it.

That said, the season so far has provided some key intel on what is needed for this team to move forward. In the absence of Dach at 2C, KH must find, sooner rather then later a guy that can carry that role. If Dach emerge back as a viable 2C in the future, great, now you have trade assets.

We also know that LD is set for now with Guhle, Hutson and Xhekaj. That said, the RD is to be completely re-model. Yeah at some point Reinbacher and Mailloux may step in, but we know that Barron, Matheson, Savard, Struble are not a long term solution.

Problem is that MTL is not alone needing these peices and there are almost none available right now.